Why Water Quality Matters

[peejay_07]

Nakaka nosebleed. Hehe


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[dr. d]

the coolant does not minimize water's ability to dissolve anything. what it does, is prevent the "anything" from forming in the first place.
the coolant, thru the magic of chemistry, prevents the metal from reacting (for example, becoming an oxide, or residue, as it was called). it is the new metal compound (oxide, etc) that dissolves in the water, not the base metal. cause enough metal to become an oxide, and you eat out the metal, and eventually get a leak.
while this oxide formation may not have been much of a problem in the olden days when engine blocks were made of iron, they are a distinct problem now because engine blocks are made of aluminum alloy, and aluminum is a reactive metal. thus the need for coolant additives (to slow down or prevent the metal from corroding)..
that white residue in the previous second picture.. i never saw them in my father's iron engine block 's radiators. can't be from the cylinder lining.. cylinder linings today are still iron, not aluminum. and everyone knows iron oxide is rust-colored, not white (heh heh). it's probably the corrosion product of aluminum in the engine block, something coolant additives are supposed to prevent.
dissolved molecules do not clog coolant passages, so let us not prevent water from dissolving anything. in fact, we want the water to keep everything in there, dissolved!
and distilled water is actually prefered over non-distilled water, because it does not have impurities that deposit as solid "residue" on the metal surface (like the first picture), that ultimately block the coolant passages in the radiator and in the engine.
and the ions in the water alluded to above, are not the cause of corrosion; they the product of corrosion.
but the presence of ions and "oxygen molecules" (whatever that means), does not make anything a certainty, except that it has ions and oxygen molecules.
let us not get confused with reactants being mistaken for products, and products mistaken for reactants.
the bottom line: " we want to prevent the residues from forming. but if and when they do form, we want them to remain dissolved in the coolant."

so, why should we not use well water in our radiators? because it contains calcium compounds. and when this well-water is heated in the engine, insoluble calcium compounds (calcium carbonate, for one) are formed and deposit in the walls of the engine block and radiator. these appear as flakes of hard, bone white material. they clog passageways and hinder heat exchange.

and again: dissolution is not reaction.

[EVO-V]

the coolant does not minimize water's ability to dissolve anything. what it does, is prevent the "anything" from forming in the first place.
the coolant, thru the magic of chemistry, prevents the metal from reacting (for example, becoming an oxide, or residue, as it was called). it is the new metal compound (oxide, etc) that dissolves in the water, not the base metal. cause enough metal to become an oxide, and you eat out the metal, and eventually get a leak.
while this oxide formation may not have been much of a problem in the olden days when engine blocks were made of iron, they are a distinct problem now because engine blocks are made of aluminum alloy, and aluminum is a reactive metal. thus the need for coolant additives (to slow down or prevent the metal from corroding)..
that white residue in the previous second picture.. i never saw them in my father's iron engine block 's radiators. can't be from the cylinder lining.. cylinder linings today are still iron, not aluminum. and everyone knows iron oxide is rust-colored, not white (heh heh). it's probably the corrosion product of aluminum in the engine block, something coolant additives are supposed to prevent.
dissolved molecules do not clog coolant passages, so let us not prevent water from dissolving anything. in fact, we want the water to keep everything in there, dissolved!
and distilled water is actually prefered over non-distilled water, because it does not have impurities that deposit as solid "residue" on the metal surface (like the first picture), that ultimately block the coolant passages in the radiator and in the engine.
and the ions in the water alluded to above, are not the cause of corrosion; they the product of corrosion.
but the presence of ions and "oxygen molecules" (whatever that means), does not make anything a certainty, except that it has ions and oxygen molecules.
let us not get confused with reactants being mistaken for products, and products mistaken for reactants.
the bottom line: " we want to prevent the residues from forming. but if and when they do form, we want them to remain dissolved in the coolant."

so, why should we not use well water in our radiators? because it contains calcium compounds. and when this well-water is heated in the engine, insoluble calcium compounds (calcium carbonate, for one) are formed and deposit in the walls of the engine block and radiator. these appear as flakes of hard, bone white material. they clog passageways and hinder heat exchange.

and again: dissolution is not reaction.

No one is contending the differences between those two processes.

But here's a reason why you don't want to be dissolving everything in there all the time.

Distilled water is essentially a hypotonic solution as a basis of extreme comparison will dissolve more. Most coolants limit the ability of water to dissolve by its very nature. A more hypertonic solution will dissolve less. But it really doesn't matter using distilled water in engines as they lose that purity as soon as it touches anything.

Glycol simply changes the boiling and freezing points of the water and reduces its conductivity. Corrosion inhibitors and other additives introduce other properties such as lubrication and protection from cavitation. It is this protective film that you do not want water to dissolve. And practically most oxide films actually protect the metal underneath it, hence why you don't go out cleaning the patina off statues. and the domes of churches,

The erosion of linings are a function of cavitation and oxidation. They essentially get pounded by micro-bubbles that form in the process of heat transfer. Given those places are just that hot being next to the actual process of combustion, that microscopic vapor layer is what causes pitting (apart from reduced conductivity), and the coolant then just takes those particles around for a ride.

Now with an exposed layer to a water-based solution and its just a matter of rinse repeat until you get your nice tiny breaches leading to your tubig at langis episodes.

But going back to the topic, the composition of the water varies greatly depending on its source. The dissolved gasses and solids (more of the solids actually) also become an issue especially when the water component evaporates as seen in the photographs as they get deposited all over the engine. You do not want to use well water unless its an emergency.

Essentially proper flushing is critical when you come around to swapping your radiator. Replacing your coolant with a proper mixture is just as paramount.

[EVO-V]

the coolant does not minimize water's ability to dissolve anything. what it does, is prevent the "anything" from forming in the first place.
the coolant, thru the magic of chemistry, prevents the metal from reacting (for example, becoming an oxide, or residue, as it was called). it is the new metal compound (oxide, etc) that dissolves in the water, not the base metal. cause enough metal to become an oxide, and you eat out the metal, and eventually get a leak.

Clarification: oxides of iron and aluminum aren't water soluble.

The residue seen are deposits of metal oxides and other dissolved minerals from the water.

The process of clogging has both mechanical and chemical aspects depending on the metals available in the loop.

Point is if you don't clean your system and you fill it up with the wrong coolant you're eventually going to be screwed.

[confused shoes]

Clarification: oxides of iron and aluminum aren't water soluble.

The residue seen are deposits of metal oxides and other dissolved minerals from the water.

The process of clogging has both mechanical and chemical aspects depending on the metals available in the loop.

Point is if you don't clean your system and you fill it up with the wrong coolant you're eventually going to be screwed.

Pardon the ignorance but how to de-clog the water passages in the engine block, the radiator, or the metal tubings without overhauling them? Anything similar to a "liquid sosa" to flash the deposits out?

[miko101130]

8 years na yung radiator since nabili yung vehicle namin...
Nung nag drain kami wala ako nakikitang any rust or solid particles that came off...
visually wala rin scales dun sa passages sa loob...

I just used caltex coolant and petron coolant and distilled water... for 8 years... when we replaced the thermostat, there are no rust nor any particles on the metal tubes..

lately i've been using Baldwin BTA additives.. pang heavy duty application....


Coolant plus distilled water would be fine...
every year lang drain and replace para sure na meh active ingredients pa yung coolant..

the traditional coolant gets depleted overtime...

the newer "extended life coolant" with carboxylate inhibitors will allow the coolant to go at least 600,000 miles, 6,000 hours or 6 years before a coolant change.
carboxylate inhibitors in ELC deplete very slowly...

yung traditional kasing coolant, the additives get depleted easily, Nitrites, Molybdates Etc...

halos parehas lang naman offer nilang benefits
corrosion,scale,rust protection
prevent cavitation erosion

cooling sytem problems
scale---- deposits on high temperature area, resulting in uneven metal expansion, scuffing,snoring, ring wear, crack heads
solution- ----keep salt minerals in suspension so that they cannot deposit on engine metal surfaces or clog passages(coolant)

acidity---corrosion of iron, steel and aluminum parts
solution--- neutralize acids (coolant)

cavitation erosion---allows coolant to enter combustion chamber or crankcase
solution--- coat cylinder liners with thin oxide film to protect from erosion(coolant again)

aeration---air bubbles that increases the probability of an engine experiencing cavitation erosion
solution--- Coolant again with anti foam properties...

daming benefits ng coolant....
mura lang naman yan guys...
tapos once a year lang...
para iwas problems in the future..

[EVO-V]

Pardon the ignorance but how to de-clog the water passages in the engine block, the radiator, or the metal tubings without overhauling them? Anything similar to a "liquid sosa" to flash the deposits out?

Actually sosa does a really good job at decloggling. But it can also react with plastic tanks an o-rings and aluminum.

If and when you do use this flush the rad vigorously.

Thing is there is a reason why your radiator got to that point. Will elaborate on this latrr

[EVO-V]

Addendum in case nitpicking creeps in. oxides are suspended in the coolant and not dissolved. If you end up having metal salts in your solution you either have those as additives or you need to check what has gotten into your coolant.

[EVO-V]

Annual draining is one thing we will differ on. But it is commendable that you have this routine in place.

[EVO-V]

cooling sytem problems
scale---- deposits on high temperature area, resulting in uneven metal expansion, scuffing,snoring, ring wear, crack heads
solution- ----keep salt minerals in suspension so that they cannot deposit on engine metal surfaces or clog passages(coolant)

In addition to this, thermal expansion on the radiators, especially the majority of the ones made locally, wherein the cores are "floating" or when they have a "dead" tube acting as core support are designed to fail prematurely. The OEM radiators actually have formed (yes stamped) braces that reinforce the core to counteract expansion. This is a design issue that will be tested if there is a build up of deposits and pressure. Essentially your radiator expands as temperatures and pressures go up and contracts as it goes down.

acidity---corrosion of iron, steel and aluminum parts
solution--- neutralize acids (coolant)

The presence of water has everything to do with why these metals react. Distilled water is an option but not necessary unless the water in your location is very hard, i.e. high concentration of dissolved minerals.

cavitation erosion---allows coolant to enter combustion chamber or crankcase
solution--- coat cylinder liners with thin oxide film to protect from erosion(coolant again)

Not necessarily an oxide layer, but a film that clings to the lining and channels via surface tension and is renewed by the circulation of the coolant itself.

aeration---air bubbles that increases the probability of an engine experiencing cavitation erosion
solution--- Coolant again with anti foam properties...

There are a few things that actually eliminate all these entirely. But a properly primed system during a fill would help minimize bubbles.

tapos once a year lang...
para iwas problems in the future..

You're spending a lot then, are you running heavy vehicles?