MRT Thread

[kisshmet]

sumitomo was good at it, back then.
then someone thought of getting it away from them, so's they can cash in...
these guys should be thrown in jail, the doors welded and cemented over.... because there's currently no viable death sentence.

imagine,
in one of their last episodes,
they were buying specialized piyezas for the mrt... in evangelista!

Sumitomo service charge is very expensive that's why they were eased out of the the maintenance of mrt3

The corruption with dilapidated mrt3 train coaches was brought about by the dearth of spare parts (mrt3 train coaches are of old design and are no longer manufactured). Hence, the solution to replace the coaches with new one which was subjected to dirty politics by the hatchethmen of the duterte admin

Dalian trains have been certified already by a 3rd party auditor hired by this govt

They cant use it yet because sumitomo is prioritizing rehabilitation of the rails

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[falken]

Sumitomo service charge is very expensive that's why they were eased out of the the maintenance of mrt3

The corruption with dilapidated mrt3 train coaches was brought about by the dearth of spare parts (mrt3 train coaches are of old design and are no longer manufactured). Hence, the solution to replace the coaches with new one which was subjected to dirty politics by the hatchethmen of the duterte admin

Dalian trains have been certified already by a 3rd party auditor hired by this govt

They cant use it yet because sumitomo is prioritizing rehabilitation of the rails

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They should have stuck with Sumitomo. Cheaper doesn't always mean better. Could've saved us a lot of headaches.

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[17Sphynx17]

Sumitomo service charge is very expensive that's why they were eased out of the the maintenance of mrt3

The corruption with dilapidated mrt3 train coaches was brought about by the dearth of spare parts (mrt3 train coaches are of old design and are no longer manufactured). Hence, the solution to replace the coaches with new one which was subjected to dirty politics by the hatchethmen of the duterte admin

Dalian trains have been certified already by a 3rd party auditor hired by this govt

They cant use it yet because sumitomo is prioritizing rehabilitation of the rails

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Expensive compared to what/who? The local mish mash of groups that said they could do the same quality of work for 'less'? We already know what that got us.

The investigations of what was publicized (for what i recall so correct me if i am wrong here) was that sumitomo always kept spare parts inventory on stock, and they never cannibalized parts from other trains... A far cry from what the others dod, no spare parts, cannibalize parts of what was left of sumitomo's work and did not even do rail rehab when it was needed eventhough they should have done it, but they didn't because that would eat into their cashflow.

We got quality work with little to no downtime when sumitomo was at the helm... Once that was thrown out the window and others took over, we got the exact opposite... Rail service become the exception rather than the norm...

And what proved to be 'more expensive' with losses in public transport service then?

We'd have to wait til 2021 for the rehab to be fully complete, and hopefully... No more of the same after...

We can't really expect all the problems that beset the mrt3 to suddenly be gone after sumitomo comes in. So, here is hoping we dont get a repeat in the future where people simply looked at the peso value without looking at the company's capability to handle such a job.

[uls]

di pa kayo nasanay sa kanya

lahat ng post niya may pro-yellow bias

[kisshmet]

They should have stuck with Sumitomo. Cheaper doesn't always mean better. Could've saved us a lot of headaches.

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The problem apart from the degraded rails are the dilapidated train coaches

Sumitomo is only a maintenance provider..trains need replacement..sticking with sumitomo won't bring in new trains

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[kisshmet]

Expensive compared to what/who? The local mish mash of groups that said they could do the same quality of work for 'less'? We already know what that got us.

The investigations of what was publicized (for what i recall so correct me if i am wrong here) was that sumitomo always kept spare parts inventory on stock, and they never cannibalized parts from other trains... A far cry from what the others dod, no spare parts, cannibalize parts of what was left of sumitomo's work and did not even do rail rehab when it was needed eventhough they should have done it, but they didn't because that would eat into their cashflow.

We got quality work with little to no downtime when sumitomo was at the helm... Once that was thrown out the window and others took over, we got the exact opposite... Rail service become the exception rather than the norm...

And what proved to be 'more expensive' with losses in public transport service then?

We'd have to wait til 2021 for the rehab to be fully complete, and hopefully... No more of the same after...

We can't really expect all the problems that beset the mrt3 to suddenly be gone after sumitomo comes in. So, here is hoping we dont get a repeat in the future where people simply looked at the peso value without looking at the company's capability to handle such a job.

Now that sumitomo is back..were there no more problems with spare parts of the train coaches?

What sumitomo were doing before was cannibalize part from one train after another that falls apart. The problem wasn't glaring then bcoz sumitomo started with more trains to cannibalize. After all theres strength in numbers.

Through the years the number of available train coaches dwindled which eventually resulted in the dearth. The only solution to the problem with the paucity of running coaches is replacement of the old. That's what those dalian train purchase was for. Then again it was politicized as overweight & unfit for the rails (proven otherwise by the 3rd party auditor hired by the duterte admin)

Again those coaches are of old design..no longer being manufactured..can be fabricated to the limits of any good fabricator

This govt can proceed on using the dalian coaches..improve the rails..improve the power supply..improve the signaling system

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[kisshmet]

di pa kayo nasanay sa kanya

lahat ng post niya may pro-yellow bias

I'm also anti china (pro US) as well right? still made a stand in favor of the purchase of new train coaches manufactured from china (cheaper)

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[17Sphynx17]

Now that sumitomo is back..were there no more problems with spare parts of the train coaches?

What sumitomo were doing before was cannibalize part from one train after another that falls apart. The problem wasn't glaring then bcoz sumitomo started with more trains to cannibalize. After all theres strength in numbers.

Through the years the number of available train coaches dwindled which eventually resulted in the dearth. The only solution to the problem with the paucity of running coaches is replacement of the old. That's what those dalian train purchase was for. Then again it was politicized as overweight & unfit for the rails (proven otherwise by the 3rd party auditor hired by the duterte admin)

Again those coaches are of old design..no longer being manufactured..can be fabricated to the limits of any good fabricator

This govt can proceed on using the dalian coaches..improve the rails..improve the power supply..improve the signaling system

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Would like to ask as i don't recall it... Where was it revealed that sumitomo themselves cannibalized from working trains and never brought them back to working condition? Thanks.

Regarding the dalian trains, please correct me if i am wrong, didn't they only supply a carcass? No working motors, singaling integration equipment etc? Basically no one was actually willing to pay dailan to design and supply a complete train that would work with mrt3 system, right?

If you have to have dalian design and supply a complete train for mrt3, that would incur mlre costs and the dalian train price of the first 3 units won't be equivalent then.

I'm not saying it can't be done but just that the price is not the same.

Then who would maintain? Dalian or the local mish mash again?

If dalian, they'd also have to change all systems to suit their equipment so it isn't as simple.

[17Sphynx17]

I'm also anti china (pro US) as well right? still made a stand in favor of the purchase of new train coaches manufactured from china (cheaper)

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With this option you recommend, what would be the plan though?

Dalian design and supply all new train sets to replace the old sumitomo ones?

If yes, what's the plan while we wait for new dalian trains? No rehab of the MRT3 and leave it to rot (even if you use local maintenance groups we already know what that means)? Spend on Sumitomo Rehab but throw it away after?

If you won't have Sumitomo rehab while Dalian is designing, are you planning to close the whole MRT so Dalian can start work on the MRT? Or are you saying Dalian should be in charge of rehab and work on the old sumitomo systems which they have no experience on? Wouldn't this proposal ruin their reputation as well and they would say no to it?

I am just curious because the only way I see your idea only getting a YES from Dalian is that MRT3 is completely closed and Dalian starts updating it to suit their systems.

[absinthe]

Traffic: Is relief in sight?
DEMAND AND SUPPLY - Boo Chanco (The Philippine Star) - September 30, 2019 - 12:00am

During the Marcos years, the LRT-1 came about. Then FVR gave the sweetheart deal for MRT-3. LRT-2 followed. But the key mass transport is MRT-3

The private owners led by the Sobrepenas of College Assurance Plans (CAP), Ayala Land, Ramcar, Greenfield Development of Unilab, Anglo Philippines Holdings and a few others had a great deal going for them. They had a guaranteed income from government. It didn’t matter that Erap pegged the fare at a point too low to recover cost of operations.

Government was responsible for operations. The Sobrepena consortium was a rent collecting landlord. The consortium bailed out on their economic interest by issuing bonds backed by the guaranteed government rental. But the consortium retained ownership.

Soon there was trouble because MRT-3 was not being maintained well. That was supposed to be the business of the landlord, but government took it on and messed up.

The PNoy administration made a series of bad decisions we are paying for up to now. They awarded maintenance contracts to political allies who were only interested in the fees, with zero knowledge of what to do.

Then PNoy’s Jun Abaya awarded the purchase of new rail cars to a Chinese company that didn’t follow the specs required. So, the Dalian railcars are not being used and P3.8 billion of the people’s money wasted. Under the MRT-3 contract, the Sobrepena consortium, like any landlord, was supposed to be responsible for capex like new train cars.

Come the Duterte administration. They dilly dallied on what to do with MRT-3, the Dalian trains and the still legal owners, the Sobrepena consortium.

Finally, they moved and negotiated a deal with JICA to hire back Sumitomo to fix MRT-3. Good move. Mar Roxas erred in firing Sumitomo, in the first place.

MRT-3 facilities need a lot of fixing. The rails are falling apart, which explains why the trains are running at reduced speed. The electrical lines, the communication facilities and other technical stuff need upgrading too.

Sumitomo will take care of all that. But under the JICA agreement with Sumitomo and DOTr, Sumitomo will only bring back MRT-3 to the point when their contract expired in 2009. No new train cars and they don’t want to have anything to do with the Dalian train cars. I imagine the guarantee will cease if DOTr uses the heavier Dalian cars.

That means running 22 trains per hour by 2021, which was the level in 2009. In short, no capacity increase after 12 years! After all the huffing and puffing and wild anticipation, we are not going to be better off in 2021 than when PNoy took over.

[chronicle]

No LRT-2 operations in 3 stations in the next 9 months | ABS-CBN News



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[17Sphynx17]

No LRT-2 operations in 3 stations in the next 9 months | ABS-CBN News



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I get it was an electrical error/fault (Short Circuit ang asa news that caused the fire). I wonder who was responsible for checking up on it.

It is odd though na walang protection yung system? Or sinadya/pinabayaan lang talaga na masira? Kasi I would say meron yan, malabong wala.

So nasugat ba yung insulators then and they made "contact" inside the "rectifier room" that caused the fire as it was after the safety protection of the system?

But if nasugat/nabalatan yung insulation, dapat nakita din during inspection e (unless wala nagcheck up talaga)

Medyo weird lang ang "pangyayari".

Parang yung pagkaputol ng overhead catenary cables ng MRT.

[oj88]

I saw in a lot of the video footages of the LRT electrical fire, firemen were spraying it with water..... which is a no-no on electrical fires.

[chronicle]

I get it was an electrical error/fault (Short Circuit ang asa news that caused the fire). I wonder who was responsible for checking up on it.

It is odd though na walang protection yung system? Or sinadya/pinabayaan lang talaga na masira? Kasi I would say meron yan, malabong wala.

So nasugat ba yung insulators then and they made "contact" inside the "rectifier room" that caused the fire as it was after the safety protection of the system?

But if nasugat/nabalatan yung insulation, dapat nakita din during inspection e (unless wala nagcheck up talaga)

Medyo weird lang ang "pangyayari".

Parang yung pagkaputol ng overhead catenary cables ng MRT.

Most likely. Narepair na at patse patse ang pagkagawa at may nabypass.

Update: sabi sa news bago bago pa daw pala yung mga units. Oh no....

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[17Sphynx17]

Most likely. Narepair na at patse patse ang pagkagawa at may nabypass.

Update: sabi sa news bago bago pa daw pala yung mga units. Oh no....

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Havent seen that news update yet.

Pero if that is the case, then patay yung nagkabit ba dahil hindi pa tumagal ng taon? (if ilang weeks old palang?)

Pero kung 'bago' nila is less than 5 years old pa lang siya, negligence na yun on their part.

Criminal na ata diba kasi affected public safety? Not sure. But still, kapabayaan kasi sa equipment/inspection sigurado yan.

Tapos kung sa electrical fire, dapat may special class extinguishing chemicsl on hand sila for that case, kung hindi, dapat wala silang FSIC, fire safety inspection certificate.

Meron din dapat sila certificate of electrical inspection, CEI.

So, sino ilalaglag nila?

[Lew_Alcindor]

I saw in a lot of the video footages of the LRT electrical fire, firemen were spraying it with water..... which is a no-no on electrical fires.

Local BFP says they can use water on electrical fires but not continuous stream of water.

[dr. d]

No LRT-2 operations in 3 stations in the next 9 months | ABS-CBN News



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why is it gonna take nine months of forever?
why not order the parts now pali pali and have them shipped here by fastest mode?
are they scrimping?
structural evaluation? does it take that long?
doesn't the cost of commuter hardship count anymore?

[17Sphynx17]

why is it gonna take nine months of forever?
why not order the parts now pali pali and have them shipped here by fastest mode?
are they scrimping?
doesn't the cost of commuter hardship count anymore?

It is a "precision" part like high voltage transformers. They are usually ordered in advance (we're talking months) then shipped as we generally don't have the manufacturing capability here.

The "normal" transformers we have here through Meralco are usually rented but have "limited scope". If you need something more, you need to buy them overseas (at least based on my experience).

But this isn't just a transformer, it is a rectifier (AC to DC) for a high voltage installation, which is more uncommon.

And this is the reason why I believe LRT Management needs to be held accountable for criminal negligence when it comes to inspection and maintenance. They should have known these things before hand, yet didn't seem to "care"?

[dr. d]

i don't know...
certainly, we aren't the only country in the world to operate a light railway transit...
even if parts are made-to-order...

[17Sphynx17]

i don't know...
certainly, we aren't the only country in the world to operate a light railway transit...
even if parts are made-to-order...

Yup, I do agree with you there.

But like in a project I worked on before, the client wanted to buy his own transformer. He found out the price, was fine with it. But even if he paid the asking price, he would still need to wait for the factory to complete fabrication for 2 months, then shipping, customs clearing. The timetable we got then (this was around 2010) was four to six months to have it on site.

No idea specifically about rectifiers but I would assume we are looking at similar scenarios because I doubt it is just parts of the whole that need to be replaced, but it needs the whole thing to be replaced because of fire then water damage.