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  1. Join Date
    Oct 2004
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    #111
    Quote Originally Posted by medyas View Post
    You could not have explained it better!!! and add to that, battery will probably drain in about 6 to 8 years, thus will cost you how much to replace? and in some states here, it will also cost you just to dispose your old battery.


    Toyota already has a recycling plant ready plus extended the warranty on the batteries.





    :fly:


    Edit keyword research only about facts not rumour.

  2. Join Date
    Aug 2003
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    #112
    Quote Originally Posted by GasJunkie View Post
    Keyword IMHO
    People who care more in trying to save the environment could care less about the extra 3 grand.
    Yes, but if you believe the research I quoted earlier, the Prius is actually worse for the environment than a regular car. Although, as the technology matures, it will eventually become better. Which is the question -- if nobody buys now, while the technology is still environmentally not efficient, it will never mature.

    So I guess those hollywood stars are doing us all a favor by being the early adopters and all that.

  3. Join Date
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    #113
    RE: Batteries

    It seems technology has either hit a brick wall with battery technology and superconductors, or at the very least, a very very steep hill. Note that cellphone batteries are more efficient nowadays than they were before, but the technology has not fundamentally changed, despite the ton of investment put down by various tech companies.

    The argument that hybrid batteries are expensive because of lack of research and development (I've said this before) doesn't hold water. There is a ton of money being spent on battery research, both inside and outside the automotive sector. The fact remains that hybrid batteries are costly to make, and require exotic elements. One major hurdle in hybrid development is the slow production of batteries because of this.

    Without a fundamental breakthrough in chemical engineering and/or battery technology, hybrids will remain expensive vehicles.

    I am hopeful on super-capacitor development. These don't have to be as heavy or as exotic as full-on batteries, and we're developing ways of storing more electricity over more time in these. Either that, or kinetic flywheel batteries, though they'll be pretty heavy, too.

    Prius taxis: This is one situation where a Prius makes sense. Because they're used in the city 99% of the time, the electric engine and regeneration system work nearly full time. A taxi can put enough miles on a Prius to break even in one or two years, and the added bonus of minimal brake wear and long oil change intervals (because the gas engine is off most of the time) actually help.

    Return on Investment: To note, at 12 years return on investment, that Hybrid is still subsidized... both by the government and the manufacturer. I'd wager full price without subsidy from either would be 35k - 40k.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  4. Join Date
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    #114
    Lots of people think that battery-powered hybrids are a dead-end. The future is fuel cells! (or so they would believe)

    There are a few very interesting ICE developments which could potentially increase the efficiency of the olde Otto cycle engine quite a bit:

    1) BMW's TurboSteamer -- uses hot steam from the cooling system to provide an extra 20hp and save 15% on fuel bills. Will be in production in 2009 (daw). Not a bad idea, since engines produce tons of waste heat (overheating, anyone?)

    2) there's this fellow who came up with an amazingly simple hack. After the exhaust stroke, when the piston comes back up, inject distilled water into the chamber. The very hot chamber will instantly vaporize the distilled water, producing another, less powerful power stroke. So it becomes a 6-stroke engine instead of a 4-stroke. And, this engine doesn't need a radiator or cooling system, since the water injection cools the engine sufficiently. No word on when this will become production (so far just a prototype). Issues with corrosion and stuff. It supposedly consumes an equal amount of gasoline and distilled water, so you'd need two "fuel" tanks.

  5. Join Date
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    #115
    Quote Originally Posted by orly_andico View Post
    Yes, but if you believe the research I quoted earlier, the Prius is actually worse for the environment than a regular car. Although, as the technology matures, it will eventually become better. Which is the question -- if nobody buys now, while the technology is still environmentally not efficient, it will never mature.

    So I guess those hollywood stars are doing us all a favor by being the early adopters and all that.


    Advancement will come although not as fast as we want it to be.




    :fly:


    edit those stars probably got the cars for free :rant:

  6. Join Date
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    #116
    Quote Originally Posted by orly_andico View Post
    Lots of people think that battery-powered hybrids are a dead-end. The future is fuel cells! (or so they would believe)

    There are a few very interesting ICE developments which could potentially increase the efficiency of the olde Otto cycle engine quite a bit:

    1) BMW's TurboSteamer -- uses hot steam from the cooling system to provide an extra 20hp and save 15% on fuel bills. Will be in production in 2009 (daw). Not a bad idea, since engines produce tons of waste heat (overheating, anyone?)

    2) there's this fellow who came up with an amazingly simple hack. After the exhaust stroke, when the piston comes back up, inject distilled water into the chamber. The very hot chamber will instantly vaporize the distilled water, producing another, less powerful power stroke. So it becomes a 6-stroke engine instead of a 4-stroke. And, this engine doesn't need a radiator or cooling system, since the water injection cools the engine sufficiently. No word on when this will become production (so far just a prototype). Issues with corrosion and stuff. It supposedly consumes an equal amount of gasoline and distilled water, so you'd need two "fuel" tanks.
    The Turbosteamer ranks up there as one of the coolest things to come out in the past year. No word on whether it will reach production, or whether it will even become feasible... but maybe use that for battery/capacitor rengeneration?

    RE: Six Stroke? Damn, that's interesting!!! Link! Link!

    But on second thought, having a secondary non-fuel stroke with water might cause all sorts of emissions... hmmmm....

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  7. Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    #117
    ok folks, here is my opinion about celebs and politicians who drive hybrids. it's a publicity stunt. they want people to think that they are environmentally conscious since global warming is a big issue today.

    common folks like us buy these cars, because our goal is to minimize our fuel expense especially now that gasoline prices have significantly increased during the last few years. common people buy these cars for the sole purpose of saving money at the pump and saving the earth is just an added incentive. ask someone who owns a hybrid why he/she purchased it. i can almost guarantee that the first response is "to save money". :lol:

    buyers of these type of vehicles only look at one thing. that is the "average fuel consumption" posted on the window of the vehicle. these people tend to overlook at the fact that they are essentially paying for their future fuel savings up front. i'm not saying that these people are not smart. they are, but they get too excited when they see the "mpg" on the sticker and become irrational/impaired. this is a common sales tactic employed by sales people.

    edit*** O.T.
    whatever happened to our very own pinoy who invented a device (was it a bolt on device?) that would convert an existing car into accepting tap water as its source of "fuel"?
    Last edited by n2knee; September 22nd, 2006 at 03:27 PM.

  8. Join Date
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    #118
    Masyado nyong kinokondena ang Toyota Prius dahil sa kanyang "expensive manufacturing" na hindi naman dapat dahil madami na ring auto manufacturers ang may hybrid systems ngayon. The difference between them & Toyota? Toyota's system works....

    Ayon sa Fortune Mag, hindi maganda Hybrid system ng bagong Civic kasi it will only give out a very low amount of horsepower which means your using 98% petrol when stepping on the gas pedal...

    While Toyota's system, I think it gives enough power for city driving which means it has a mix 70-30 petrol-battery usage...

    Anyway, sabi nga ng industry, hybrids are not the be-all & end-all... parang 3G lang yan, an incremental upgrade.... What we should be waiting for should be fuel cells (o kung ano man ang tawag dun) or if your an avid fan of telecoms 4G (which is WiMax).

  9. Join Date
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    #119
    Quote Originally Posted by GasJunkie View Post
    Keyword IMHO
    People who care more in trying to save the environment could care less about the extra 3 grand.
    like i said, people purchased these cars for the sole purpose of saving money at the pump. NOT for the sole purpose of saving mother earth (this is only secondary). if you look at the various ad campaigns from Ford (Escape Hybrid), Toyota (Prius), and Honda (Hybrid and NGV Civic and Accord), they all have one thing in common. the ads emphasize the fuel consumption of these vehicles. various slogans such as "not thirsty" with a picture of a gas pump next to the hybrid/electric car or a picture of a stack of coins clearly support my belief that the message is about saving money. these cars are being marketed to entice people who are sick and tired of paying too much at the pump. however, like i said before, majority of buyers tend to become one dimensional when making big purchases (such as cars for instance) and only focus on the benefit at the pump without regard to the initial investment required.

  10. Join Date
    Apr 2006
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    25
    #120
    after reading so many opinions...would you prefer a subcompact car to a hybrid?

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