HELP!!! My innova D4D Black smoke- pls Help!!!

**dedeypi** · September 17th, 2008 05:15 PM

Sir Mile2,

Thanks for your words of wisdom

I am enlightened!

Sir aga_cruz,

I wish doable to some extent iyon. Medyo mahirap. But it's good almost everyone has already given their letters

Sir Din,

December 2007 po yung unit namin... but it's not Innova, it's a Fortuner. Hindi ko na po makita yung DENR sticker, pinatungan po kasi namin ng ibang gate sticker dahil pangit ang pagkakadikit, hindi pantay.

Regarding the catalytic converter thing, I'm still neutral about it.

On one hand, given Sir mile2's logical approach, it causes me to say "oo nga ano."

On the other hand, since meron po kayong basis of comparison with earlier units na walang catalytic converters, convincing din siya.

So what I can do for now is research as well.

Salamat po sa inyong lahat

**Mile2** · September 17th, 2008 10:29 PM

some references for Denso exhaust emission system and diesel engine management.

http://www.denso-europe.com/Exhaust-...000000001.aspx

http://www.globaldensoproducts.com/em/dem/index.html

**chilun** · September 17th, 2008 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by dindy

[SIZE=3]Sgt Pepper, Dedeypi, Chilun and all the Innova owners[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]Kamusta kayong lahat? First of all I have news regarding our problems with the Black smoke emissions but I need some inputs on other innova users and probably even members from club Toyota innova. So hopefully we may get a good feedback.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]I already gave a copy of my Demand Letter to TMP and the dealer were I got my unit. TMP Customer relations officer said that the dealer should make together with TMP engrs a Field Technical Report on our unit and will base all recommendations on that whether our unit can be replaced. Although me and my wife is bent on replacing the unit, I know that It may take a long time before they decide and I bet they wont make it easy on us. A service unit will be provided for us while they dissect our innova.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]Regarding my questions to other innova users, this is what I got and research about (dapat trabaho ng Toyota ito) I found out that and confirmed that Toyota INNOVA 2007 (later months released) and all 2008 D4D are all equipped with CATALYTIC CONVERTERS and this is to comply to Euro Standards. Before, EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) lang ang nakakabit on older models and these is the reason that when you inquire with your service advisor, they give different answers (try niyo lang magtanong). Some say that EGR lang ang mayruon ang D4D and that gas lang ang may 3 way catalytic converter. They are not consistent on these. Just imagine na pinalitan na nila Fuel injectors, EGR and Turbo assembly ko and not to mention the reprogramming ECU and Purging of the engine and only to find out that baka CATALYTIC CONVERTER ang problem.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]Sgt peeper also noticed and I also checked out my sister in laws INNOVA 2005 and found out na iba yung design ng buong exhaust system ng 2008 and 2005 models which includes the catalytic converter. So confirmed ko na iba yung design… my questions are when exactly lumabas yung mga models na may catalytic? What month? Most probably if we determine the exact month lumabas mga models na ito, then you may validate this problem and check out your unit if may black smoke. So far I spoke to one owner and he has black smoke emmison and DENR conduction sticker nakalagay sa upper right hand corner of your windshield (if your facing your car) date is sept 2007. Sainyo ba na may ganitong problem… when did you by your unit? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]People from TMAP headed by a Singaporean will be here on September 23 and will check our unit. I am hoping that they solve the problem and if it is really the design that is causing the black smoke, then I believe that a recall should be done. But for me and my wife, we’re pushing for change of unit since parang technically they used my unit like a guinea pig. It’s ok sana kung after changing all the parts e naayos… that is not the case. Hindi na sariwa yung Innova namin…. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]I will attach the pictures I took and do check out the difference….[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]By the way, I also noticed that iba talaga yung hatak nung innova namen kaysa sa sis I law ko… parang pigil yung takbo and again I don’t know if the catalytics design restricts the power… ewan ko lang…. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]Hope we get a feedback.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]Yikes!! how do i post the pics?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]God Bless![/SIZE]

[SIZE=3]DIN[/SIZE]

hi sir dindy,

we should make a stand for the unit replacement or cash refund. for me, I wouldn't like the idea of a brand new car being dissected. I can't take the worries of what might happen to our car. why not for them to take the car back and give us a new unit, then, they can dissect it any way they want.

grabe naman talaga sila. In your case sir Dindy, you already had your parts changed several times. The thought of it they should have already given you a new one. Hahay, sana they can think of it as recall to all units that has the same problem. Hope it'll be a good news to all of us here.

God Bless

**yapoy86** · September 18th, 2008 12:22 PM

they would (TMP) avoid recalls as much as possible to protect their own interests.. unlike in other countries like in europe, they are very strict in implementing rules and concern for consumers especially when it comes to safety...

Toyota owners may try to bring this up to the MEDIA for more attention, DTI should also take action for this is a CONSUMER - PRODUCT related matter..

Problem with toyota cars now is that they are not "japanese made" unlike their previous models...

if they cannot solve the D4D problem, at least they should replace the engine so that they can dissect the engine itself...

regarding revving of the engine to clean the exhaust, it is ok if your car is old, but for the brandnew car logging only 20K kms and considering it a common rail technology, revving the engine to clean the exhaust is unnecessary..

I don't think EGR has something to do with black smoke as its only function is to control production of NOX,

Its more possible that the engine is getting wrong signals or data from its sensors causing the black smoke..

**dedeypi** · September 18th, 2008 01:48 PM

If ever they do reject the letters, ibig sabihin palaban sila. And that's not a sign of a good company management. Magsasabi-sabi sila na EURO II compliant yung 2.5 D4D nila tapos ganyan naman kung umusok!

If they do reject the letters...this is something we really have to fight.

**dindy** · September 18th, 2008 11:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mile2

It is highly probable not the catalytic converter, they just run out of words to say, if they change the catalytic converter, black smoke will only be suppressed for a short period and eventually will still exit to your tail pipe.

Logically, where does the black sooth comes from?..it will start coming from the the cylinder head exiting the exhaust manifold and down to the catalytic converter and all the way to muffler tail end pipe.

The ECU is not getting the correct inputs from sensors (O2, knock, flywheel, temperature, crankshaft, etc). In this case a rich fuel mixture is always the case for the common rail injectors as interpreted by the ECU to be ideal where it will produce black smoke of unburned fuel. Modern diesel engines relies heavily on the sensors to operate smoothly and fuel efficient and less vibration.

Hi Mile2,

Thanks for the response.... Yes i do believe that you are right on the idea that the ECU is not getting the correct inputs from the sensors although based from the pictures i took (2005 and 2008 models) i don't see any sensors connected to the catalytic converters. Ewan ko lang bro and is the sensor the EGR? Sorry i don't have a lot of knowledge for diesel engine. I also got the same answers/ observation from friends who worked with toyota before. Sabi nga nila na EGR lang ang mayroon ang diesel nila before and since they complied to Euro Standards that is why they placed a catalytic. My question is that if hindi catalytic ang problem, then why is it that 2005 and 2006 innova doesnt fail on emission testings? My sis in laws innova is 2005 and they registered it some time ago and had emission test and ok naman. Tapos kahit anung birit ko e walang usok. To think that 2005 model sa kanya and her Odometer is just 12000km.

What if we they remove the catalytic and just restore the old exhaust system? will it still produce black smoke? Altough they are tampering the exhaust design of the new innova, baka naman yun lang yung sagot... parang trial and error din lang naman ginagawa nila then why not try this one too. Sabi ng iang reliable source ko that they already tried that inside and bypass the catalytic. When they did that nawala daw agad yung usok pero they only did that inside the casa and did not test drive it for a few days. Normally after a week or two based from my experience lumalabas ang black smoke so still not sure if this procedure works.

i also noticed that parang pigil yung makina ko compared to the 2005 of my sis in law... yung feeling when i drive my innova is that parang may restriction yung exhaust.... its like blowing a straw with some one covering the end...

Aside from us here sa thread, i know already 2 people who actually called me up and as of now yung unit nila nasa toyota otis na and pinalitan na daw ng buo yung injector, egr and turbo and recently yung buong exhaust system nila that includes the catalytic. They'll get their units with in the week and they will observe it again. Si Sgt Pepper pinalitan din exhaust system with catalytic last sat and no feedback pa from him.... syempre observe ulit.

As for me, i am adviced by my service manager to wait for TMAP (singaporean) who will arrive on Sept 23 before i allow them to practice on my innova again. If it is the design problem and they acknowledge it then i believe that a RECALL should be done... but my stand is for them to replace my unit... its a long shot pero bahala na...

Ill try to post the pictures sa photobucket and sana makita nyong lahat...

God Bless!

DIN

**dindy** · September 18th, 2008 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by dedeypi

Sir Mile2,

Thanks for your words of wisdom

I am enlightened!

Sir aga_cruz,

I wish doable to some extent iyon. Medyo mahirap. But it's good almost everyone has already given their letters

Sir Din,

December 2007 po yung unit namin... but it's not Innova, it's a Fortuner. Hindi ko na po makita yung DENR sticker, pinatungan po kasi namin ng ibang gate sticker dahil pangit ang pagkakadikit, hindi pantay.

Regarding the catalytic converter thing, I'm still neutral about it.

On one hand, given Sir mile2's logical approach, it causes me to say "oo nga ano."

On the other hand, since meron po kayong basis of comparison with earlier units na walang catalytic converters, convincing din siya.

So what I can do for now is research as well.

Salamat po sa inyong lahat

Mga pards!!!

Check out link below and see the pictures i took from a 2005 innova ng sis in law ko and our innova 2008....

Hindi ko makunan ng pics pa yung ilalim....

Maybe next time...

http://s243.photobucket.com/albums/ff169/dindy8/

God Bless!!!

Din

**dedeypi** · September 19th, 2008 11:24 AM

"Normally after a week or two based from my experience lumalabas ang black smoke so still not sure if this procedure works."

Sir Din,

Paclarify naman po nito. Ano po yung umusok ulit after a week or two? Yung unit na tinanggalan ng catalytic converter?

Naisip ko rin po yung aalisin muna yung converter, Sir Din.

Regards.

**Horsepower** · September 19th, 2008 03:28 PM

Catalytic converters purify the emissions so it can't possibly be the culprit in the smoke belching issue. Only an ignorant will suppose so.

Hope you guys can see this through. Gamitin nyo lahat ng available avenues. The best is the media. They'll have a field day with this.

Wag magpadala sa sweet talk ng agents, mga empleyado lang yun. At the end of the day, you need to demand for the exact thing that you paid for.

**Sgt. Pepper** · September 19th, 2008 04:06 PM

Hi Din, Dedeypi and co.,

After replacing the exhaust system including the catalytic converter last week eh mukhang bumalik na naman ung problem kanina pero sandali lang nagkaron ng black smoke and then may usok pa din pero parang alikabok ang usok nya not the usual black... sa tingin ko after a week or two eh maitim na naman un... So sa sobrang inis ko eh tumawag na ko sa dti consumer hotline and they advice me to make a complain letter and email it to them(legal dept.). Siguro mas malaki ang chance natin manalo kung pati kayo na affected eh gumawa na din ng complain letter at email nyo na dti for proper handling... kasi sa tingin ko kung tayo lang ang gagawa ng letter at ibibigay sa TMP or sa dealer eh hindi nila papansinin un eh... sabi saken ng dti ilagay daw sa letter ung concerned company at ung contact no at ung address nila para mabigyan ng invitation sila for a mediation conference/meeting with the complainant at ung concerned company(tmp/dealers). Just pm me here or txt me at 09209032633 para mabigay ko ung email add ng dti at ung person kung san natin ia-address ung concern natin. Balitaan ko na lang ulit kayo sa susunod...

Din, tama ung picture mo... ganun din ang nakita ko sa naunang model ng innova at sa model ng innova natin...

Regards,