Effects of side collision to the suspension, steering, alignment

**ghosthunter** · October 1st, 2012 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by nrg500

By the way, would it be better if a car is some sort of hybrid of a ladder chassis and a space frame chassis ? The core structure will very strong then there will be front, side, and rear crumple zones (relatively weaker than the core structure) that can be easily cut off and replaced once it gets bent or damaged

You mean,... you want to drive a Public Utility Jeepney?

**niky** · October 1st, 2012 06:02 PM

They do good work. They tweaked my Lynx back to square, no complaints (except for the waiting time). The problem is, since they're the only big shop that does it, everyone has it done there. Kinda kicking myself. Shoulda had the frame seam welded at the same time, too.

Originally Posted by nrg500

This is the disadvantage of a monocoque chassis design

By the way, would it be better if a car is some sort of hybrid of a ladder chassis and a space frame chassis ? The core structure will very strong then there will be front, side, and rear crumple zones (relatively weaker than the core structure) that can be easily cut off and replaced once it gets bent or damaged

If the entire body has to be replaced, not cost effective, any more. Insurance will just junk it.

Once you have a space frame, no need for the crude ladder. A space frame is technically the best you can get in terms of body rigidity and safety. Adding a heavy ladder to the bottom of it will be adding weight for no practical benefits. Most racing cars and all extreme off-roaders are built on space frames.

The problem with a space frame is it is labor intensive and expensive to produce. The only consumer vehicles you see with space frames are usually supercars or low-volume trackday cars like the Radical and the Super Seven. Space frames also take up lots of space. This is necessary for rigidity.

You want a "hybrid", that's simple. Just put a rollcage in the car. With a roll-cage fastened to the subframes front and rear, the body panels, roof and pillars of the car become cosmetic parts that you can replace with ease.

But a rollcage is a pain in the ass. A properly triangulated rollcage with good side protection makes it very hard to get in and out, and there will be little to no space in the back seat.

**nrg500** · October 1st, 2012 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by niky

They do good work. They tweaked my Lynx back to square, no complaints (except for the waiting time). The problem is, since they're the only big shop that does it, everyone has it done there. Kinda kicking myself. Shoulda had the frame seam welded at the same time, too.

If the entire body has to be replaced, not cost effective, any more. Insurance will just junk it.

Once you have a space frame, no need for the crude ladder. A space frame is technically the best you can get in terms of body rigidity and safety. Adding a heavy ladder to the bottom of it will be adding weight for no practical benefits. Most racing cars and all extreme off-roaders are built on space frames.

The problem with a space frame is it is labor intensive and expensive to produce. The only consumer vehicles you see with space frames are usually supercars or low-volume trackday cars like the Radical and the Super Seven. Space frames also take up lots of space. This is necessary for rigidity.

You want a "hybrid", that's simple. Just put a rollcage in the car. With a roll-cage fastened to the subframes front and rear, the body panels, roof and pillars of the car become cosmetic parts that you can replace with ease.

But a rollcage is a pain in the ass. A properly triangulated rollcage with good side protection makes it very hard to get in and out, and there will be little to no space in the back seat.

What I meant was the crumple zones will protect the core structure that holds the passengers, engine, suspension, etc. For example, in the event of a side impact, the side crumple zone will be cut, then re-install a new one to the core structure.

I hope you get what I mean

**nrg500** · October 1st, 2012 06:46 PM

Originally Posted by ghosthunter

You mean,... you want to drive a Public Utility Jeepney?

Why is that ladder chassis is always associated with PUJ's, and OTJ's ?

Porsche 904 used a ladder chassis

Replicas made by Factory Five Racing also use a ladder chassis Design | | Factory Five RacingFactory Five Racing

ERA Replicas also uses ladder chassis FIA Chassis illustration

**niky** · October 1st, 2012 09:38 PM

What do those cars have in common?

They're all either fifty years old or replicas of fifty year old cars.

Old cars which are needlessly heavy for the amount of body rigidity they have and woefully unsafe compared to modern sportscars.

Originally Posted by nrg500

What I meant was the crumple zones will protect the core structure that holds the passengers, engine, suspension, etc. For example, in the event of a side impact, the side crumple zone will be cut, then re-install a new one to the core structure.

I hope you get what I mean

How wide is your car going to be? Even with a full spaceframe, you cannot prevent damage to the main chassis during a side impact.

Most cars nowadays already have front subframes that can be replaced after an accident, but it is impossible to prevent damage to the safety cell.

To build a car the way you want it would result in a car that is at least three feet wider than a regular car, and several feet longer. And much heavier, because instead of having a unitary body, it will have a metal skin, a spaceframe and a ladder.

Nobody wants a two ton Civic.