Brake System upgrade talk

[Type 100]

Hi guys. I have a few questions on upgrading my Jazz's brakes. Currently it's got front discs and rear drums with a supposed stock 70%/30% split in brake bias front/rear. Nothing really wrong with the current items (except lockup---I got no ABS) but I'd like to improve on what I deem a critical part of the car.

I wanted to ask if upgrading/installing any of the following items would have an appreciable increase in braking performance.

1) EBC Greenstuff brake pads (for the front discs)
2) bigger rotors
3) braided steel brake lines (for the front discs)
4) a slightly bigger brake master cylinder (BMC) - I heard this can make braking a little more progressive and reduce the incidence of brake lockup.

Lastly are there any upgrades you can do for rear drum brakes? I know they have supposedly just 30% of the brake force on my car but any added performance will surely be welcome.

Thanks in advance

[mazdamazda]

Go for the performance brake pads & reface your rotors if it's already uneven.

Then from there, check if the braking power is enough for you.


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bigbigcar.com Review: Toyota Avanza 1.5G

[mbeige]

When I drove the Jazz the brakes are already pretty strong, considering it's lightweight too. The ventilated fronts are enough for my needs, maybe something is off with your braking system? I don't know if your lack of ABS is a hindrance, because ours has ABS though one "upgrade" I'd like to do is lower the sensitivity of the ABS. More than once I've had surprises when driving and going over potholes when the ABS would activate and pulsate the brake pedal. Sometimes I go over the bumps while I'm not stepping on the brakes and I could hear the brake pedal pulsating.

I know there are conversion kits for the rears so you can have rear discs but I'm not familiar of its availability, installation and cost.

[Type 100]

mbeige:
Yep I actually like the Jazz's brakes as they are, with only one criticism: on non-ABS units like mine, it's actually pretty easy to induce a lockup. It's happened on more than one occasion.

Given this observation, I don't think the excessive sensitivity of the ABS sensors is excessive at all---it seems that's just them doing their job. The brakes themselves are just that easy to lock up. That's why I was considering a slightly larger brake master cylinder to help alleviate this---the larger BMC seems to make brake modulation more progressive instead of an "on/off" deal.

Correct me if I'm wrong, guys; this is just the conclusion I've arrived at after reading a number of tuning magazines and my own observations.

[niky]

Well... it'll all depend on the size of your wallet.

For me, the most "sulit" upgrades are stainless braided lines and good pads. EBC pads are great, but remember, that's an expense that you have to do over and over again as they wear down.

Lots of stuff you can do. For mild street use, you can upgrade to Runstop rotors... they're a cheap upsize/upgrade for your stock system... a friend in the fordclub is the local dealer, and he sells through Speedlab (just look up speedlab.com.ph ).

If it's too easy to induce lock-up, you can also look at another possible culprit... the tires. A better compound of tire will increase braking power at the edge of lock-up every time. I did this with my non-ABS disc-and-drum Sentra, and it stopped better than my ABS-equipped 4-disc Sentra.

Remember, your number one limit in braking force is the tires. Once you've upgraded to better tires and the brakes still can't cope, that's when you start tearing into your system.

[mbeige]

Niky has a point with tires. When I drove the Jazz with its stock 15" Michelin tires I would have to give it more time to brake than with the 17" Dunlops. Now that you mentioned it, it seems that activating the ABS was also easier with the Michelins.

You're right with the on/off feel though, especially when in stop and go traffic. Napapansin ko yon, you release the brake but only after a certain amount of foot lift will the brakes disengage, unlike other cars that feel more direct so when you release the brake you can crawl along with the brakes applied partially. With the Jazz you can, but it's margin is very small so it will easily grab, I think that's why it's easy to lock up and it's easy to trigger the ABS. Good point there, I didn't think of it that way.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who felt this!

[niky]

You can have them custom-made. But there's some risk involved. You can ask at speedlab... they don't make them there, but they referred me to a place that does.

[speedyfix]

scary to have them crimped here minsan lalo na if they do not use good fittings. i've seen some sheer off lang basta and since those are the brakes it's very likely that an accident is soon to follow once may masira sa lines.

[Onyl Ryan]

Guys,
Ask ko lang iba-iba ba ang Quality ng Shops sa Rotor Reface?
Pano ko malalaman magaling at maganda ang pagkakagawa nila
Bukod sa dapat mirror finish ito?
How much po ang inaabot nito? For the Front Rotors only (CRV)
Thank you po.

[Memphis Raines]

Hi guys!

I've just been toying around with the idea of upgrading my 2K VTi with rear discs I know that most of the work is up front but there must be some (or slight) advantage if you got rear discs.

Aside from aesthetics of course

The car is daily driven, no race or track days. Shoes are on OEM SiR Enkei 15 inchers.

.