HELP: Using car HID with 220V

[OTEP]

Here comes another one of my weird projects. hehehe.

I may have some extra HID lamps and ballasts and I'm planning to use it as a portable light source for the clinic. We currently have a Storz Xenon Cold Light fountain but it's heavy and cost $$$. We also have a portable halogen light source but the 220V power supply is still heavy and the output from the halogen lamp (for overhead projectors) leaves a lot to be desired. The portable unit is also beat up and showing its age already.

So I was thinking if I could find a way to power my extra car HID's so I could use them instead.

Btw, can i put a dimmer on it? Like a rheostat?

I saw some power supplies at the mall (around Php800.00) that is intended for car phone/VHF transmitters. The units convert 220V to 13.8Volts.

Is the project feasible?

Here's the current lightsource (not the actual unit)

[rion]

it is feasable. but you can't put a dimmer for it. afaik, may undervolt, overvolt protection ang mga ballast ng HID. and the 12+ volt is converted to thousand volts yun...

[OTEP]

The dimmer aside, can I use the commercially available 220V to 13.8volt transformer units sold in the market?

I'm planning to encase it in a metal case roughly the size of half a loaf of bread.

[ghosthunter]

You have to make sure the power supply is rated enough for the HIDs system which are typically 35 to 50 watts in consumption.

BTW, for portable light sources, would you need omni-directional lighting or projected lighting?

But exotic projects aside, wouldn't it be better to use high output CFL lamps as the light source? They can be powered by modified standard UPS units or inverters tapped into 12 volt deep cycle batteries for places without electricity.



Reason? ... well, the HID might sound exciting but when it comes down to it, you will need equipment that is inexpensive and can be serviced, replaced and repaired easily in the field without need for specialized parts nor skills.

Commercially available CFL lamps are up to 20 or 25 watts but you can get even more powerful CFLs direct from their local brand holders.

[rion]

I haven't tried using step down transformer myself. but if I had one right now, I'm very confident about it. because they have voltage protections.

the only worry that I would be is the transformer's AC Filtering. I think a generic 600 watts Computer psu is good enough. their transformer are small but it gives better AC filtering. This is what I use to power my V12 amp sound system in my room. some market transformers are not that good, making the amplifier making humming noise...

I agree with sir GH though. mas maganda yung replaceable anytime, anywhere by any people...

[OTEP]

It's for my personal use sana. The other guys can keep lugging the big xenon light source around. :D

As for CFL, I don't think they'd cut it. We need projected lighting such as on those halogen OHP bulbs because the light has to be trasmitted through a fiber optic light cord (see image) which is connected to a flexible or sinus endoscope which is stuck up the patient's ear, nose, or throat.

Fiber optic light cord:


My job (that's not me):


The thing stuck in the patient's nose is a sinus endoscope, the cord leading down from it is the fiber optic light cord which is plugged into the xenon light source.

A camera can also be attached to the endoscope so you can look at it from a video monitor (that's an upcoming project also).

[ghosthunter]

I get what you need. It should basically be a light pump to shoot high intensity light through a fiber optic fiber.

Have you tried to google for "fiber optic lighting" equipment? I found some hits on google which are used for commerical lighting or starfield generation purposes. I don't know if the brightness is to your requirements but it would be simpler to adapt existing equipment than to design your own from scratch.

[OTEP]

It might be simpler but part of our training requires us to come up with 'innovative' instruments/gadgets for use in our line of work. And I thought this would be a good project since the price of HID's have gone down in recent months. That's why I'm asking help from you guys.

Plus, I'll be able to use it when I go into private practice.

Here are some pics of our beat up halogen light source. Note that it also uses off the shelf parts.





Fiber optic light cord:

[rion]

how much do these thing costs? mukha kasing madali lang mag assemble nito. except finding a part for the fiber optic plug...

HID on the fiber cable, parang na-pi-piture ko: I-ilaw yung boung katawan ng pasyente.

[Horsepower]

You can try using a generic computer PSU (costs maybe 500 bucks each).

If HID consumes 50w, you'd need something like 12v 5A. (12x5=60w). It's good to have some overhead.

to turn it on, you just need to short the green and the black wire (you can put a switch on it).

[ghosthunter]

acn you also post the picture where it would show how the light from the halogen lamp gets into the fiber optic cord? Is it simply the cut end of the fiber optic cord?

[OTEP]

No problem finding the fiber optic cord, I can source that one out.

Computers have 12V? That's good to hear. Madami ako power supply sa bahay.

The end of the optic cable is just aligned with the lamp. The light will travel throug it. I plan to use HID instead of halogen.

[Horsepower]

No problem finding the fiber optic cord, I can source that one out.

Computers have 12V? That's good to hear. Madami ako power supply sa bahay.

The end of the optic cable is just aligned with the lamp. The light will travel throug it. I plan to use HID instead of halogen.

Yes, 12v (~30A+ on the average) and 5V (~30A+) and 3.3V (~30A+).

Good luck.

[OTEP]

I'm looking at the PSU's of our junked PC's. Ang dami palang wires na lumalabas sa kanya. How will I choose which ones will power the HID and how do I put a switch? :D

[Horsepower]

yeah marami syang wires.

You'd see yung malaking block (either 20pin or 24pin). may black and green dun. yun yun kailangan i-short (or lagyan ng switch but for testing, use a paper clip).

The yellow is the +12v and the blue is -12v. I'm not sure though what's the difference between using the -12v and ground (black) for the HID. As for the harddisks (which uses 12v and 5v), it uses the +12v and the ground.

ATX power connector;



Tapos dun sa power para sa harddisk (yung apat ang wire).
Ang +12v yung yellow wire. Negative would be the black. Red is +5V

[OTEP]

I'm presenting my proposal for this project tomorrow. Wish me luck. I might use an off the shelf power supply. The PC power supply had so many wires, my head was spinning. hehehe.

[OTEP]

Follow up question.

What device can I use to measure light output and heat?

[batang_raon14]

I'm presenting my proposal for this project tomorrow. Wish me luck. I might use an off the shelf power supply. The PC power supply had so many wires, my head was spinning. hehehe.

Doc, *Horsepower's post is the answer here. Regardless of how many wires there are, those are the only two sockets you'll need. The first image he posted is ONLY one in any standard PC power supplies (the one you'll ground the Black and Green wires to start up the power supply). The second image is a plenty, but you'll need only one (these are in series, so it wouldn't matter where you'll connect your HID or switch).

I wish I could've read this earlier, it's really interesting really. If I'd be the one to do it, all I'll need is 2 fuse and 2 switches (or 1 even). One switch to connect to the green and black wire of the 24-pin socket of the PSU to power it up, and another one to power up the HID which is connected to the RED and BLACK wire of the standard hard drive socket (which should normally be four in a standard PC power supply). Connect the PSU to a trusty AVR or UPS even to ensure that no electrical surge will damage your system (cool yung UPS though, hehe gagana pa rin yung rig mo kahit mawalang ng koryente for at least five minutes if HID lang ikakabit) and enclose it in a box with at least one AC connected 12cm fan and you pretty much have it.

As for calculating temperature readings, you can get a PC temperature reader similar to this: http://www.tipidpc.com/viewitem.php?iid=3966068

Install it in your case or box where you'll install all your components. Pretty cheap I think. HTH and goodluck chief

[OTEP]

My proposal was accepted. Yipee.

Now I need to find an objective way to measure the light out put and temperature of my device vs. those of existing devices.

I saw a lux meter in Raon retailing for Php1,500.00. Ok na ba ito? I figure I can make a shroud for it so all the light goes into the sensor.

Or will a photographer's light meter work?

Saw the AC/DC 12V 6A power supply also. Last price was Php550.00.

Anyone got a lux meter and thermometer? :D

[Horsepower]

I was thinking of photo light meter last night, pero di pa ako nakagamit nun e. If it will give you figures like candela or whatever unit it measures that you might need, then ok na siguro than spend on a lux meter. :D

Ok na rin yung price na 550 for the 12v 6a. Hopefully totoo ang output na 6A tapos switching psu (ito yung walang transformer at sobrang gaan parang notebook charger). Lagyan mo na rin doc ng fuse from the power supply to the hid para safe.
Anyway, pag bumigay, call me. I'll fix one PC PSU up for you. hehe. Ang ok kasi dun, may fan. No matter how long you use it, it has active cooling system. We can just remove all the unnecessary wires, put a switch on the psu body shorting the green and blue, tapos, ang output yung yellow (+12v) and black (ground) lang nakalabas para di malito ang kahit sino na gagamit.

Im sure you have a thermometer lying around there somewhere. hehe.

Good luck.