Michael Schumacher stripped of pole in Monaco

[mazdamazda]

They should have proven that Michael was GUILTY BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT because as BoyFerrari said all of those are circumstancial evidence.

Seems that the racing stewards are also playing favorites with Fisichella getting away with a lighter penalty and Barichello going unnoticed.

[empy]

kayo naman, hehe. sports league lang naman to at hindi court of law

F1 made a judgement call that they were well within their rights to make. no different than the NBA commish deciding to suspend a player for a particular flagrant foul or disrespecting the refs. all you can hope for is that the rulings are consistent and enough guidelines have already been set for what is wrong and what is right behavior.

now, if those rulings are inconsistent....well, that's why God made internet forums

[Eismann]

Wow, talagang ang hitik na puno ang siyang pinupukol....nyway, let's wait for the next races and find out two things:
1.0 If Schumi doesn't have erections anymore....joke...I mean karma..meaning he doesn't win anymore races
2.0 If this incident spurs Schumi further and he bags the driver of the year in the end

[allen_the_great]

Well then maybe it is true that Schumacher never cheated in any of his races. Because after crashing his Ferrari on Jack Villenueve back in 1997, Schumacher continued to win five (5) more uncontested World Championships afterwards. If you believe in karma, then that alone should tell you he never cheated. Unless of course karma is selective and has a time-delay fuse somewhere.

maybe not now, but surely he will get his karma in due time. Wag mo pangungunahan ang DIYOS boyferrari. bakit pag ikaw nagkaroon ng kasalanan tapos hindi ka agad kinarma ibig ba non sabihin na hindi ka nagkaroon ng kasalanan? tsk tsk.. pamali ng pamali ang mga posts mo..

[allen_the_great]

Once a thief, always a thief.
Conversely, once a cheater, always a cheater.

some of Schumacher's dirty antics:
1. deliberately crashing into Jacques Villeneuve's Championship-leading and Race-leading car in 1997 to try to win the Championship
2. deliberately crashing into Damon Hill in the final round of the Championship to win the title in 1994

(maghahanap pa ako ng iba..)

[Eismann]

Ingat lang tayo sa pag sabi ng mga "cheating"....true is the fact that this is just an opinion but FIA certainly is a body comprised of professionals so they're experts in their own right. Saying that Ferrari or Schumi gets away with their dirty tactics blemishes FIA. As always, their decision is final and Ferrari has suffered with all the changes in the FIA policies last year and Renault gained so maybe Ferrari and Schumi is figuring out a way to "live by" these policies and rightly so, even after starting last in Monaco, he scored points to give back something to his/their fans -- us.

So if you're a Mclaren fan or Renault fan then good luck -- F1 is just dazzling to watch and just like the NBA, it polarizes those who watch intelligently.

[allen_the_great]

Saying that Ferrari or Schumi gets away with their dirty tactics blemishes FIA.

i didnt say that Ferrari or Schumi gets away with their dirty tactics. In fact, he was disqualified in 1997 for his antics. although in 1994, hindi siya nipunish.

i am just thinking out loud na baka reputations play a role in their punishments. since in 1997 when he bumped villeneuve off the track, baka naalala ng FIA na "ginawa na nya yun nung 1994 ah and he came unpunished" kaya siguro nidisqualify siya nun 1997 when he tried to pull off the same "stunt/cheat".

pati na rin sa "team orders" ng ferrari. form of cheating din yan. (though cheating your own driver and teammate nangyari). nipunish din sila nun with 1 million euros ata.

and now sa monaco. he was punished right?

ang point lang is the FIA have and will continue to punish what they deem are cheaters/unsportsmanlike conducts/strategies. (they have all the evidence and we dont. best to trust their decision)

[mazdamazda]

Once a thief, always a thief.
Conversely, once a cheater, always a cheater.

Judging people prematurely aren't we?

OT... So you are saying that people behind bars or who have committed past mistakes don't have the capability to reform? And since you mentioned God in your previous post, wasn't it a robber crucified besides Christ who was assured of a place in heaven?

[Eismann]

Agree kasy boss Mazda.
Nood na lang tayo sa next races..then we can blab away again in this forum...peace!

[allen_the_great]

Judging people prematurely aren't we?

that's my personal opinion. schumacher cheated before. schumacher cheated again. and coupled with the views of the F1 drivers, legends, commentators, experts, and team bosses and the race steward who all share the same view as mine, ganyan tlga ang pagtingin ko sa ginawa nya- he cheated. sorry if we share different views.

OT... So you are saying that people behind bars or who have committed past mistakes don't have the capability to reform?

may chance magreform. i truly believe in second chances. kaya nga hindi nalang ginawang death sentence ung hatol diba, kasi binibigyan sila ng chance magreform and im totally in favor of that. ang problema sa kaso ni schumacher, he was found guilty of cheating by the FIA's race stewards AGAIN. and until he doesnt do those types of cheating anymore, he will continue to be a cheater in my book.

And since you mentioned God in your previous post, wasn't it a robber crucified besides Christ who was assured of a place in heaven?

sorry kung nasama ko si God sa topic na to. sobrang crap kasi ang sinabi ni boyferrari about the karma thing kaya tumaas ang presyon ko. this is my last post regarding God. and yes, all of us faithful to God and repentant for our sins will be assured a place in heaven.

and to answer your post, yes it was indeed a robber who was REPENTANT for his sins. i dont want to pass anymore judgements but IMO, hindi pa repentant si schumacher sa mga "cheating/unsportsmanlike tactics" na ginawa nya noon dahil ginawa nanaman nya sa Monaco.

And wasnt it a robber too crucified beside Christ who was damned to eternal hell?

[niky]

Once a thief, always a thief.
Conversely, once a cheater, always a cheater.

some of Schumacher's dirty antics:
1. deliberately crashing into Jacques Villeneuve's Championship-leading and Race-leading car in 1997 to try to win the Championship
2. deliberately crashing into Damon Hill in the final round of the Championship to win the title in 1994

(maghahanap pa ako ng iba..)

Why yes, Schumi is indeed one of the most ruthless and dirty tactitians of his time.

What's wrong with all of this is that the stewards did not implement sanctions evenly, nor did they punish all wrong-doers. Schumi's qualifying farce may have been the most dramatic, but there were a lot of instances on track wherein other drivers deliberately held up people behind them.

I, for one, do not lament his being reprimanded... heck, it gave us an exciting race... I just wish they would have applied the rules more evenly.

And I quite agree with M2... just because a guy's got a history, doesn't mean he can't do good. Aside from that idiotic "team orders" thing, Schumi's 2004 (2003?) drive was terrific. And in 2005, despite the "Indy fiasco" (which was whose fault?), Schumi was racing hard and clean. On Suzuka, he made it difficult for Raikkonen and Alonso to pass him at first, as was his right, racing for position... but he didn't pull off any dirty tricks, double blocks or try to shunt the other drivers into the grass.

Schumi has a history, yes. He may sometimes do things (whether on team orders or not, we'll never know) that are unfair and vicious, but the other 95% of the time, he's a perfectly gentlemanly (if somewhat stuck-up) driver.

[BoyFerrari]

sorry kung nasama ko si God sa topic na to. sobrang crap kasi ang sinabi ni boyferrari about the karma thing kaya tumaas ang presyon ko.

Well then don't insert crap things like karma in the discussion about FIA rules and racing. Not everyone believes in Karma or God.

What we are discussing from the very start is about how the stewards decided to punish Schumacher based on their opinion. There was nothing divine anywhere in the discussion, until that karma came along out of the blue.

[wrcastro_ph]

I'm not a Ferrari fan. But I dont think that Shumi has done it intentionally. I think the penalty was over reacted.

[BoyFerrari]

i am just thinking out loud na baka reputations play a role in their punishments. since in 1997 when he bumped villeneuve off the track, baka naalala ng FIA na "ginawa na nya yun nung 1994 ah and he came unpunished" kaya siguro nidisqualify siya nun 1997 when he tried to pull off the same "stunt/cheat".

So you said it yourself then. So if FIA uses a driver's reputation in their punishments, then they are biased in their judgment calls.

pati na rin sa "team orders" ng ferrari. form of cheating din yan. (though cheating your own driver and teammate nangyari). nipunish din sila nun with 1 million euros ata.

That occured BEFORE team orders were banned. So you can't drill them for a crime that was not yet punishable at that time. If Ferrari had team orders in the recent Monaco debacle, then where is the evidence?

ang point lang is the FIA have and will continue to punish what they deem are cheaters/unsportsmanlike conducts/strategies. (they have all the evidence and we dont. best to trust their decision)

Sabi nga ni Jean Todt, we accept FIA's decision, but we don't necessarily agree with them.

[allen_the_great]

Well then don't insert crap things like karma in the discussion about FIA rules and racing. Not everyone believes in Karma or God.

What we are discussing from the very start is about how the stewards decided to punish Schumacher based on their opinion. There was nothing divine anywhere in the discussion, until that karma came along out of the blue.

it's pathetic that you chose to delve into my P.S. note (the karma thing, which is my personal opinion and belief) of that post instead of discussing the main points of my post. If you will reread my post, i made a counter arguments of your earlier posts which is well within the topic of this thread. however, (because barado? ka na) you chose to highlight my P.S. note which got us nowhere.

[allen_the_great]

So you said it yourself then. So if FIA uses a driver's reputation in their punishments, then they are biased in their judgment calls.

please reread my post. i know i wrote the word "BAKA" and i'm not the FIA so i'm only guessing here. as i've said in my earlier posts, the FIA race stewards knows better than you and me. better leave it up to them and trust that they did the right thing.

That occured BEFORE team orders were banned. So you can't drill them for a crime that was not yet punishable at that time. If Ferrari had team orders in the recent Monaco debacle, then where is the evidence?

it may not have been cheating that was AGAINST THE RULE kasi wala pa nga naman rule prohibiting team orders. but it was definitely CHEATING THE FANS OF A FAIR RESULT. fans go watch f1 to see who is the best driver of that race. to see barrichello as the best driver of that race and see him give it up to schumacher because of team orders suck. that is cheating the fans that were watching. i watched that on tv. i felt cheated. i felt sorry for barrichello. the fans even booed schumacher.

Sabi nga ni Jean Todt, we accept FIA's decision, but we don't necessarily agree with them.

yes. kanya kanya lang tlga yan.

PEACE

[empy]

[Eismann]

[QUOTE=allen_the_great
it may not have been cheating that was AGAINST THE RULE kasi wala pa nga naman rule prohibiting team orders. but it was definitely CHEATING THE FANS OF A FAIR RESULT. fans go watch f1 to see who is the best driver of that race. to see barrichello as the best driver of that race and see him give it up to schumacher because of team orders suck. that is cheating the fans that were watching. i watched that on tv. i felt cheated. i felt sorry for barrichello. the fans even booed schumacher.]

I also saw that race and I never felt cheated....what is clear there is that it was team prerogative. As much as it was not pleasant to see a teammate slowing down, Schumi earned that spot by also dominating the race albeit from behind his teammate's spot. If there was no trail work, Barrichello might have lost the spot to another pursuing driver/team. So if I was the team manager/owner and one of my drivers has the DOTY in the bag, I could also do the same. Wouldn't you?

[allen_the_great]

I also saw that race and I never felt cheated....what is clear there is that it was team prerogative. As much as it was not pleasant to see a teammate slowing down, Schumi earned that spot by also dominating the race albeit from behind his teammate's spot. If there was no trail work, Barrichello might have lost the spot to another pursuing driver/team. So if I was the team manager/owner and one of my drivers has the DOTY in the bag, I could also do the same. Wouldn't you?

U said it urself.. "Schumi earned that spot by also dominating the race albeit from behind his teammate's spot". Ibig sabihin second best lang sya sa race na yon. Whether or not he helped Barrichello is beside the point. Barrichello should and would have won that race if not for Ferrari's team orders. Besides, halos assured na din si Schumacher ng Drivers' Championship nung year na yun.. he could have clinched it with second place in that race and another strong result in his succeeding races. it was not a matter of winning or losing the DC in that race.. dami pang opportunities in other races. and even so, winning the DC under those circumstances.. Hmm.. i would rather win it by myself without my teammate handing it to me on a silver platter.

[BoyFerrari]

Let's categorize what is meant by TEAM ORDERS. You CANNOT keep insisting and claiming that Ferrari has team orders to let Schumacher win the races. There is no evidence to prove such claims, therefore, using the argument of "team orders" is just a speculation and people love to use such arguments because they know it's undisputable since there's no evidence to show. In layman's terms, it's chismis - hard to prove, hard to deny either.

We were not born yesterday not to acknowledge that star drivers have a No.1 preference in an F1 team. If there is such a thing as "team orders", it's an unspoken word. When a player transfers to the Miami Heat, he should know that it is an unspoken word that Shaquille O'Neal is the No.1. When you go to Ferrari, it's a no-brainer that Schumacher IS the MAN.

Team orders are illegal, but no team has been penalized yet for giving team orders. So if you keep bringing up such invisible spectre as "team orders" while watching F1, then don't watch F1 anymore. F1 is as fake as Barry Bonds hitting a homerun under the cloud of steroid doping that could not be proven until now.