Michael Schumacher stripped of pole in Monaco

[niky]

What they should have done is to temporarily suspend / pause the qualifying clock (in order to remove the Ferrari) then resume afterwards. They could also have

Exactly. How hard is it? They stopped the clock for Massa's accident, right? And Massa's car was wedged into a wall.

Intentional or not, Michael's car, stopped right in the middle of the track... should have brought out the red flag right away... just pause the clock, push the car out of the way, allow the other teams maybe, oh, another four or five liters of fuel for the trouble, and restart... add a few minutes to the clock to give them tire warm-up time.

While part of me knows, deep down inside, that it's entirely possible for this to be intentional, I do remember a ton of mistakes from Schumi in the past few seasons... some of them plain dumb. Either Schumi was a genius for saving his car, or an idiot for trying such a stupid trick.

I'm happy, though, that they penalized Fisichella. I'm still thoroughly convinced that they should have penalized Barichello, too. Letting him get away with that probably opened the door to other drivers... showing them a method of blocking that's entirely transparent.

In each case, each driver should have been booted to the back of the order of the current running cars (which would put Schumi in tenth), or penalized with a straight 5-10 position penalty... that they gave Schumi a larger penalty than Fisi was pure and simple bias.

-----

Schumi's brilliant drive in Monaco is small compensation for the loss of face he incurred with that slap on the wrist. Not saying he doesn't deserve any, but the penalty should always fit the crime, and should always be applied even-handedly.

Great day for David, by the way. I'm sure he's tickled pink that he actually brought a lesser car in to the podium while everyone else was dropping like flies.

[Flagg]

It sure looks intentional to me... speed at that corner would be around 120-140km/h accdg to the F1 site. If 5 secs were enough for me to regain control from a slide in a lowered lancer (and absolutely gripless Dunlops, as I found out) on an approx 80degree 1-laner at 60km/h (man was i scared s**tless), M. Schumi can do 2 secs on an F1 car at ave 130km/h on a similarly-angled 2-laner.

Btw, from the f1 website, Rosberg crashed cuz his accelerator got stuck. At the Noghes corner, not La Rascasse.

No comment on the penalty.

[BoyFerrari]

So after everything has been said about this issue, it is clear that there was no smoking gun solid proof evidence that Schumacher cheated at Monaco qualifying. This is not like Schumacher taking out Damon Hill incident. Everyone will just have to believe what they want to believe.

I want to side with those who think Schumacher cheated. However, they have no evidence. All they have are circumstantial interpretations that can vary from person to person.

[wildthing]

it looks like an intentional stall on that corner....he's too good a pro driver to stall on that corner...its not his first time drive that damn tracks....imo its too obvious that he really cheated on that.

[artpogi]

when I saw the slow-mo of the schumi stunt my observation is he intentionally took the wrong line on that turn and purposely overshot the corner.

Well anyways, at least it adds a different color to the F1 drama, but for the wrong reasons.

[Mguy]

from www.formula1.com

Following the session, the stewards heard evidence concerning the incident from Schumacher - who claimed it was a genuine error - as well as Ferrari personnel. They also reviewed video footage and data evidence supplied by the team and the FIA.

Their finding was that Schumacher had no justifiable reason for braking so hard, as he had been traveling little or no quicker than at the same point on previous laps. They therefore concluded that he deliberately stopped his car on the circuit, an infringement of the sporting regulations.

It would be great if we could see the data evidence which led the FIA to decide on its verdict. We all might have been missing something.

IMO, I have seen the dirty tricks of Schumi and Ferrari before already so it would be easy to conclude that they could do this. What boggles me is that if it was a dirty trick, do they think they could get away with it? Its a small price to pay staying in P2 rather than staying at the end of the grid.

However they really had motive because they knew that Alonso was quicker in the first 2 sectors thus well on his way to the pole position. Be it if he did it on purpose or not, the good thing about this that it serves as a warning to all drivers the FIA is on its toes whenever it comes to underhand moves. Pity Schumi if he ever was innocent.

[Eismann]

An error is an error.....and if we look closely at Schumi's and Ferrari's performances in Monaco, he was mostly human and the car has a share of braking errors(locked hydarulics) in this circuit... remember when he overbraked also in the Monaco raceday of 2004 or 2005 causing him to slam on the wall and end his and another driver's race? That's why an error like that can happen even to a driver of Schumi's calibre and to a team as winningest as a Ferrari. And to think that this error or incident happened only in a quailfying session....FIA should have known better and have the qualifying session reset. The ruling they imposed is certainly questionable and it taints their credibility too...not just Schumi's nor Ferrari's.

[mazdamazda]

IMO... Ferrari would be back with a vengeance on the next few races.

[wildthing]

karma will not necessarily be in the form winning a race....who knows his dick doesn't stand up any more....OT na masyado....base on the video shots, it looks like he did on purpose...

[mazdamazda]

They should have proven that Michael was GUILTY BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT because as BoyFerrari said all of those are circumstancial evidence.

Seems that the racing stewards are also playing favorites with Fisichella getting away with a lighter penalty and Barichello going unnoticed.

[empy]

kayo naman, hehe. sports league lang naman to at hindi court of law

F1 made a judgement call that they were well within their rights to make. no different than the NBA commish deciding to suspend a player for a particular flagrant foul or disrespecting the refs. all you can hope for is that the rulings are consistent and enough guidelines have already been set for what is wrong and what is right behavior.

now, if those rulings are inconsistent....well, that's why God made internet forums

[Eismann]

Wow, talagang ang hitik na puno ang siyang pinupukol....nyway, let's wait for the next races and find out two things:
1.0 If Schumi doesn't have erections anymore....joke...I mean karma..meaning he doesn't win anymore races
2.0 If this incident spurs Schumi further and he bags the driver of the year in the end

[allen_the_great]

Once a thief, always a thief.
Conversely, once a cheater, always a cheater.

some of Schumacher's dirty antics:
1. deliberately crashing into Jacques Villeneuve's Championship-leading and Race-leading car in 1997 to try to win the Championship
2. deliberately crashing into Damon Hill in the final round of the Championship to win the title in 1994

(maghahanap pa ako ng iba..)

[mazdamazda]

Once a thief, always a thief.
Conversely, once a cheater, always a cheater.

Judging people prematurely aren't we?

OT... So you are saying that people behind bars or who have committed past mistakes don't have the capability to reform? And since you mentioned God in your previous post, wasn't it a robber crucified besides Christ who was assured of a place in heaven?

[allen_the_great]

Judging people prematurely aren't we?

that's my personal opinion. schumacher cheated before. schumacher cheated again. and coupled with the views of the F1 drivers, legends, commentators, experts, and team bosses and the race steward who all share the same view as mine, ganyan tlga ang pagtingin ko sa ginawa nya- he cheated. sorry if we share different views.

OT... So you are saying that people behind bars or who have committed past mistakes don't have the capability to reform?

may chance magreform. i truly believe in second chances. kaya nga hindi nalang ginawang death sentence ung hatol diba, kasi binibigyan sila ng chance magreform and im totally in favor of that. ang problema sa kaso ni schumacher, he was found guilty of cheating by the FIA's race stewards AGAIN. and until he doesnt do those types of cheating anymore, he will continue to be a cheater in my book.

And since you mentioned God in your previous post, wasn't it a robber crucified besides Christ who was assured of a place in heaven?

sorry kung nasama ko si God sa topic na to. sobrang crap kasi ang sinabi ni boyferrari about the karma thing kaya tumaas ang presyon ko. this is my last post regarding God. and yes, all of us faithful to God and repentant for our sins will be assured a place in heaven.

and to answer your post, yes it was indeed a robber who was REPENTANT for his sins. i dont want to pass anymore judgements but IMO, hindi pa repentant si schumacher sa mga "cheating/unsportsmanlike tactics" na ginawa nya noon dahil ginawa nanaman nya sa Monaco.

And wasnt it a robber too crucified beside Christ who was damned to eternal hell?

[BoyFerrari]

sorry kung nasama ko si God sa topic na to. sobrang crap kasi ang sinabi ni boyferrari about the karma thing kaya tumaas ang presyon ko.

Well then don't insert crap things like karma in the discussion about FIA rules and racing. Not everyone believes in Karma or God.

What we are discussing from the very start is about how the stewards decided to punish Schumacher based on their opinion. There was nothing divine anywhere in the discussion, until that karma came along out of the blue.

[allen_the_great]

Well then don't insert crap things like karma in the discussion about FIA rules and racing. Not everyone believes in Karma or God.

What we are discussing from the very start is about how the stewards decided to punish Schumacher based on their opinion. There was nothing divine anywhere in the discussion, until that karma came along out of the blue.

it's pathetic that you chose to delve into my P.S. note (the karma thing, which is my personal opinion and belief) of that post instead of discussing the main points of my post. If you will reread my post, i made a counter arguments of your earlier posts which is well within the topic of this thread. however, (because barado? ka na) you chose to highlight my P.S. note which got us nowhere.

[niky]

Once a thief, always a thief.
Conversely, once a cheater, always a cheater.

some of Schumacher's dirty antics:
1. deliberately crashing into Jacques Villeneuve's Championship-leading and Race-leading car in 1997 to try to win the Championship
2. deliberately crashing into Damon Hill in the final round of the Championship to win the title in 1994

(maghahanap pa ako ng iba..)

Why yes, Schumi is indeed one of the most ruthless and dirty tactitians of his time.

What's wrong with all of this is that the stewards did not implement sanctions evenly, nor did they punish all wrong-doers. Schumi's qualifying farce may have been the most dramatic, but there were a lot of instances on track wherein other drivers deliberately held up people behind them.

I, for one, do not lament his being reprimanded... heck, it gave us an exciting race... I just wish they would have applied the rules more evenly.

And I quite agree with M2... just because a guy's got a history, doesn't mean he can't do good. Aside from that idiotic "team orders" thing, Schumi's 2004 (2003?) drive was terrific. And in 2005, despite the "Indy fiasco" (which was whose fault?), Schumi was racing hard and clean. On Suzuka, he made it difficult for Raikkonen and Alonso to pass him at first, as was his right, racing for position... but he didn't pull off any dirty tricks, double blocks or try to shunt the other drivers into the grass.

Schumi has a history, yes. He may sometimes do things (whether on team orders or not, we'll never know) that are unfair and vicious, but the other 95% of the time, he's a perfectly gentlemanly (if somewhat stuck-up) driver.

[Eismann]

Ingat lang tayo sa pag sabi ng mga "cheating"....true is the fact that this is just an opinion but FIA certainly is a body comprised of professionals so they're experts in their own right. Saying that Ferrari or Schumi gets away with their dirty tactics blemishes FIA. As always, their decision is final and Ferrari has suffered with all the changes in the FIA policies last year and Renault gained so maybe Ferrari and Schumi is figuring out a way to "live by" these policies and rightly so, even after starting last in Monaco, he scored points to give back something to his/their fans -- us.

So if you're a Mclaren fan or Renault fan then good luck -- F1 is just dazzling to watch and just like the NBA, it polarizes those who watch intelligently.

[allen_the_great]

Saying that Ferrari or Schumi gets away with their dirty tactics blemishes FIA.

i didnt say that Ferrari or Schumi gets away with their dirty tactics. In fact, he was disqualified in 1997 for his antics. although in 1994, hindi siya nipunish.

i am just thinking out loud na baka reputations play a role in their punishments. since in 1997 when he bumped villeneuve off the track, baka naalala ng FIA na "ginawa na nya yun nung 1994 ah and he came unpunished" kaya siguro nidisqualify siya nun 1997 when he tried to pull off the same "stunt/cheat".

pati na rin sa "team orders" ng ferrari. form of cheating din yan. (though cheating your own driver and teammate nangyari). nipunish din sila nun with 1 million euros ata.

and now sa monaco. he was punished right?

ang point lang is the FIA have and will continue to punish what they deem are cheaters/unsportsmanlike conducts/strategies. (they have all the evidence and we dont. best to trust their decision)