McLaren Trial

[mayana]

Update
Evidence published as McLaren drivers excel

SPA-FRANCORCHAMPS, Belgium, Sept 14, 2007 (AFP) - While the fallout from Thursday’s spygate’ hearing continues all around them, McLaren drivers Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton set the fastest times of the day in practice for the Belgian Grand Prix.
The drivers escaped punishment in Thursday’s spy hearing after handing all their relevant correspondence to the FIA investigators.
Hamilton had nothing to declare but Alonso delivered details of emails and text messages between him and McLaren test driver Pedro De La Rosa discussing leaked Ferrari technical information.
In light of the new evidence and further details given to them by the Italian Police, The FIA fined McLaren $100m and excluded them from the 2007 constructors’ championship.
Hamilton and Alonso though, are free to continue their drivers’ championship battle and both look to be in fine form on the Spa-Francorchamps circuit.
After Ferrari’s Finn Kimi Raikkonen dominated the morning session, Hamilton and Alonso stepped up their pace in afternoon practice on Friday, the Spaniard recording a lap of 1:46.654, the fastest of the day.
British rookie Hamilton, currently three points ahead of Alonso at the top of the drivers’ standings, was only a tenth of a second slower and the pair now look set for a head-to-head battle over the weekend.
Brazilian Ferrari driver Felipe Massa recovered from a disappointing morning to finish the day third quickest ahead of Raikkonen, while Toyota drivers Jarno Trulli and Ralf Schumacher will be pleased to have been fifth and sixth fastest respectively.

[jeff1101]

Mclaren basically got caught with its hands in the cookie jar... Now they're paying the price. Its ironic that they had to resort to outright cheating to win an F1 championship.

And they had the nerve to drag Renault with them in the spy mess? Theyre situation is so desperate that theyre just basically clutching at straws now.

What is ironic is Ron Dennis' plan of "driver equality" backfired on him...and Badly. He knew going in (like he didnt learn enough from the lesson of Prost and Senna) all the trouble he's getting himself into coddling L Hamilton and the same time addressing the needs of his "number 1" driver Fernando Alonso.

It came to a point that he was given an ultimatum by Alonso and was forced to pick sides. Well what did he do? he strutted around, told Alonso you signed the contract and you can go next year if you want but only until after Mclaren wins the championship.

He fostered hostility between his drivers and worse allowed suspect even illegal behaviour to occur in his outfit and under his watch.

Could you really blame Alonso if he testified against Mclaren? How could you foster loyalty from your driver if you let him out in the cold again and again? Alonso can be loyal heck he left Renault in good terms and still call Briatorre his friend. I dont think he calls Ron Dennis anything remotely like that.

In the end it was Ron Dennis' fault and his alone.

Serves his sorry a$$ right...

Sad part is Mclaren is paying the price for his folly.

[number001]

I think Alonso should be excluded from the driver's championship, in light of evidence that suggest of his awareness and involvement in the use of the leaked technical documents from Ferrari. Yes, Alonso did cooperate with the investigation but why should he get out unscathed? I wonder what kind of message (and any future repurcussions/implication) the FIA is sending out? At least slap Alonso with a lighter sentence, instead of "get-out-jail-card" for his cooperation.

[jeff1101]

Ssssshhhh!! Its called witness protection program...

Ever wondered why Erap Estrada got convicted and is now languishing in jail (If you call his Tanay resthouse "jail") while Chavit "I gotta have it" Singson is up and about and petting his pet tiger?

[BoyFerrari]

I'm sad for Fernando Alonso.

Here is a guy, a world champion at that, who has been projecting himself as a clean, "be fair" sportsman all this time. We know about his high-profile tantrums when he screamed that Schumacher cheated when he "parked" his Ferrari at Monaco. He made tantrums when drivers make moves on him that may "appear" as cheating in his own handbook. Yes, Fernando has been a model of a fair, honest driver.

Now here we are reading transcripts from his email about him asking his team to test the gas that Ferrari used to heat its tires, on his McLaren car. A confidential knowledge he knows very well was stolen from Ferrari. He got advanced knowledge on what lap Raikkonen was going to pit back in the Australian GP - yet he never cried foul (at that time).

And let's not forget, this is the same Fernando Alonso who was found guilty of deliberately blocking his own teammate at the pitstop so that his qualifying P1 time can never be beaten. His clumsy excuse: He was putting a gap between himself and the traffic in the circuit. In reality, there were only 2 cars in the circuit at that time, and one of the cars was even on its way to the pitlane.

Fernando - not as clean as he has projected himself to be all this time. A big disappointment.

[empy]

i also think the drivers should be punished. much as i like Hamilton, he and Fernanda Alonso were involved - there's just no way they could have known.

for cooperating, they should have served a lesser "sentence". but no punishment altogether is pushing it.

[artpogi]

here's the complete decision of the WMSC

I have read the whole document, IMO Dela Rosa and Alonso should have been penalized to a certain degree, most especially Dela Rosa

[CVT]

i also think the drivers should be punished. much as i like Hamilton, he and Fernanda Alonso were involved - there's just no way they could have known.

for cooperating, they should have served a lesser "sentence". but no punishment altogether is pushing it.

Agree.

I'm rooting for LH (over FA) since he is writing history as we speak...

However, a driver is a champion not because of the driver alone. It's a collective effort by everyone in the team,- represented in the track by the driver and the car. Since the car, which is, say 1/2 of this team, is an anomaly,- then IMO, both LH and FA should be punished. For me, FIA's judgement is showbiz,- political and business, and is not "fair".

And again, as I stated in another thread, all parties were given a certain level of satisfaction.

For Ferrari,- it is the disqualification of McLaren from the world championship this year and the $100M fine; and the FIA's 'recognition' that indeed, McLaren in one way or the other have benefited from the stolen Ferrari documents. I am sure though that this does not stop here as Ferrari is filing legal suits on the McLaren team. The peace agreement between RD and JT earlier in the year is now deemed to be 'treacherous'...

On the other hand, for McLaren, they still have a chance for the driver's championship and they can still race. Participation in the 2008 Constructor's Championship is TBD.

For BE and the F1 Circus,- almost, an "uninterrupted" revenue...

3808:fish:

[Monseratto]

Alonso tried to bluff Ron Dennis into picking sides. But Ron instead called Alonso's bluff and brought the emails to the FIA. I wonder why Ron wants to keep this guy if he knows he can't control him?

Alonso, manager, play down McLaren crisis reports

Widespread reports late on Friday said the espionage saga was re-fired following a furious row between the Spaniard and McLaren's Ron Dennis in Hungary

As they argued about the qualifying pit stop incident, Alonso is believed to have threatened to take the incriminating spy emails to the FIA if Dennis did not give him either number one status or release him from his contract.

Dennis pre-empted the reigning world champion by calling the governing body himself.

Alonso was quoted as saying by the Spanish newspaper As: "I do not believe that the (FIA's) decision was taken only because of this.

"I assume that there was much more information than this, but I am not going to say any more about it. Neither yes or no about anything.
"

But even Dennis had to admit to the World Motor Sport Council on Thursday that his relationship with Alonso is now 'very cold', according to Bild newspaper.

His manager Luis Garcia Abad also played down the reports, including suggestions that Alonso's position at McLaren is now untenable despite the existence of a three year contract.

Asked if the Spaniard would stay in 2008, he answered in the Spanish press: "He has to.

"We have an agreement. We are not negotiating with anybody and our plan is to continue here," he also told the BBC.

[empy]

i also think the drivers should be punished. much as i like Hamilton, he and Fernanda Alonso were involved - there's just no way they could have known.

sorry, typo in the above sentence - i meant to say there's just no way they could not have known

[BoyFerrari]

Now that McLaren as a constructor has been penalized and eliminated from "supposed to be" dirty acts from "a few" of its employees, I think it makes perfect sense that the company do some kind of revenge against the perpetrators.

There was no sportmanship involved when Alonso and Dela Rosa tried to cheat by exploiting stolen secrets from Ferrari, why would there be sportmanship if McLaren denies Alonso the win by tweaking his car so he'll be out pace compared to his teammate?

Alonso cannot win races without his car. And McLaren owns the car he his driving right now. Since this entire contest has dirt all over it, I would rather pick Lewis Hamilton and give him a better car to win for the team, if I were Ron Dennis.

[jeff1101]

There was no sportmanship involved when Alonso and Dela Rosa tried to cheat by exploiting stolen secrets from Ferrari, why would there be sportmanship if McLaren denies Alonso the win by tweaking his car so he'll be out pace compared to his teammate?

Alonso cannot win races without his car. And McLaren owns the car he his driving right now. Since this entire contest has dirt all over it, I would rather pick Lewis Hamilton and give him a better car to win for the team, if I were Ron Dennis.

The only problem with that is that Fernando Alonso now has the full protection of the FIA!

Seems like the FIA is already ahead of Mclaren in this area and is making sure Mclaren doesnt do any funny business in inhibiting Alonso from his drive for the championship.

from F1-live.com:

FIA to monitor McLaren treatment of Alonso
Max Mosley keen to protect the defending champion 16/09/07 00:23


Alonso very much at odds at McLaren Mercedes
Appearances aside, the effects of the espionage scandal and its fallout continue to be felt on the scene of the Belgian Grand Prix.

After disagreeing in the media on Saturday, McLaren boss Ron Dennis and FIA President Max Mosley later stood in front of the team's shining 'Brand Centre' and shook hands for the benefit of photographers.

But after headlines suggested that Mosley continues to question Dennis' integrity and honesty regarding key elements of the disclosure of the new email evidence, it now emerges that F1's governing body is going to keep a close eye on McLaren at least for the balance of the season.

Mosley praised Fernando Alonso on Saturday for his role in shedding light on the extent of knowledge of Ferrari's secrets within the team.

But the FIA President says he now fears for possible retribution against the Spaniard from within his ranks, after Alonso's evidence directly led to the record $100m fine and exclusion from the constructors' world championship.
Cliquez ici...


"If they do anything wrong against Alonso, they will have to answer to us in Paris and we will do what is necessary," Mosley is quoted as saying by the Italian daily La Gazzetta dello Sport.

The Briton said he fully supported Alonso's actions, in direct contrast with some sections of some that have accused him of maliciously attempting to blackmail his bosses.

"He was the only one on his team who did the right thing," Mosley said. "With Alonso's emails we obtained certainty (about the case)," he added.

Of course Mclaren can still try to do that but then again after the spy scandal and the increased scrutiny they are under after the penalty I believe they would think twice...

As for some who question Alonso's morals in not going to the FIA sooner I think Mclaren (Ron Dennis et al) should be the one faulted for having its drivers put in the "predicament" of ratting against their team or doing the right thing. I dont think Alonso was any happier in doing what he did, but then again Im sure he was doing the right thing.

[empy]

wag na lang nila lagyan ng gas yung auto ni FA, hehe

[squatt3r]

tsk tsk akala ko talagang gumaling McLaren this year. yun pala kumukuha ng leakage hehe

[CVT]

Just want to share this as the author is thinking in the same line as myself on this F1 scandal..... IMO, it's unquestionably a competitive advantage....

3808:fish:

from: http://www.dailymail.co.uk

Sorry, Lewis, but you shouldn't even be at the races
by Jeff Powell

A GRUBBY little farce took place in a small town in Belgium yesterday. Formula One motor racing showed the world it is no longer a sport, just a hoarding on wheels, advertising the greed of men already so absurdly rich they need not a car, but a pantechnicon, to take their money to the bank.

Lewis Hamilton had blown a gust of fresh air through British sport. He provided daring and a welcome dash of success to go with it.

Yet permitting this young Englishman to continue his pursuit of the world drivers' championship in a machine built on cheating is a betrayal of the cavalier gentlemen of the track who preceded him. The same applies to his garage-mate Fernando Alonso.

Two of the finest of those legends disagree. Stirling Moss and Jackie Stewart believe it would have been folly to ruin one of the most compelling championships for years by stripping the drivers of points as well as the manufacturer of their vehicles.

But even the FIA president can see the immorality of his council's contradictory decision to throw McLaren out of the constructors' championship yet grant immunity to the men who sit at the wheel.

Max Mosley disassociated himself from that majority verdict by saying: "If you are outside the rules, you are not in the game."

If McLaren have gained an advantage by espionage and deceit — and the judgment declares they did — the drivers should be suspended also. Instead Hamilton and Alonso were to be seen hurtling around Spa, even though in no other mass-audience sport is the competitor so reliant on external combustion and technical wizardry.

Thoroughbred racing is not exactly the least corrupted of sports yet if the winning horse is found to have been doped, the jockey does not keep the Derby victory.

The same should apply to McLaren. It is of no consequence whether or not Ron Dennis knew what his underlings were up to, nor that he decided to blow the whistle. He is the boss, he is responsible.

For the record, Ferrari, whose secrets were stolen by McLaren, took first and second places in yesterday's Belgian Grand Prix. That is likely to be a Pyrrhic victory, since their pilots trail Hamilton and Alonso on points.

To have knocked Hamilton out of the championship race, which he leads by two points, may have seemed Draconian to many but there are more important considerations, not least the integrity without which no game is worth playing.

By letting Bernie Ecclestone keep his commercial circus flying they have cast F1 as a straw before the slipstream.

If Hamilton wins his title, it will be worthless and only the petrol heads will be watching those last three races on television. For sports lovers, it is a sordid turn off.

[mazdamazda]

Well, in fairness to McLaren, no Ferrari design/technology/etc. has been found so far on their current vehicle. Though further scrutiny of the 2008 car is already in the works.

As I understand, McLaren was penalized for just having a copy of the said document with the connivance & knowledge of some key personnel.

It's like stealing the source codes of Microsoft Vista by some Apple personnel. They have the complete source code, some of them email each other with regards to the possession of the said source code but none of them at the moment bothers to use the said source codes.

If it's found that McLaren used Ferrari's design - they'll be in a much bigger hole than this.

[BoyFerrari]

I'm sure those design secrets did not find its way to McLaren's chief designer merely for entertainment or curiosity purposes only.

It's like finding George W. Bush's detailed itenerary schedule in the hands of an Al Qaeda terrorist leader. Sure, the Al Qaeda dude was just watching TV and eating popcorn when the Special Forces came blasting their way into his door. Who is to say that this guy was "merely curious" about Bush's detailed travel plans found on his dining table, and was never really caught in the act of doing something illegal?

With regards to that article about Hamilton driving a cheating car - it doesn't matter to me whether his wins are tainted, we can't do anything about the car at this stage anyway. But I like his driving style. More like an equal match with Nico Rosberg. I'm sure Hamilton will be the franchise driver for McLaren for the years to come. He is, after all, a Briton. British car, British boss, British driver. Makes sense to me. Ok, the engine is German.

With regards to Alonso - I'm not sure if many people in Renault will be happy to accept him back. After all, wasn't it in China last year when Alonso accused his team of not supporting him in the race that's why he lost to Schumacher in the Shanghai GP?

[CVT]

I'm sure Hamilton will be the franchise driver for McLaren for the years to come. He is, after all, a Briton. British car, British boss, British driver. Makes sense to me. Ok, the engine is German.

Agree here bro. And I like the way you think.

With regards to Alonso - I'm not sure if many people in Renault will be happy to accept him back. After all, wasn't it in China last year when Alonso accused his team of not supporting him in the race that's why he lost to Schumacher in the Shanghai GP?

He is brewing something at that time..... Oh well, that's the way he really is.... Que horror!

3808:fish:

[empy]

at the moment, is there a bigger crybaby in professional sports than Fernanda Alonso? i honestly am having trouble coming up with anybody :hihihi: especially now that Terrell Owens and Kobe Bryant seem to have wised up and shut up.

[CVT]

at the moment, is there a bigger crybaby in professional sports than Fernanda Alonso? i honestly am having trouble coming up with anybody :hihihi: especially now that Terrell Owens and Kobe Bryant seem to have wised up and shut up.

10..... 9...... 8..... 7..... 6..... 5..... 4..... 3...... 2..... 1..... 0 (Engggg!!!!)...

Sorry, I cannot think of a bigger crybaby in professional sports....

So, it must be the great back-to-back F1 Champion,- FA....

3808:fish: