Ralph Recto: Candidate for Senator

[Altis6453]

im not pointing a finger at you, im just stating the obvious that many people if given the chance would probably not pay their taxes properly. and i also stated that most of those who violently opposed the imposition of evat are those tax evaders or those who does not remit taxes properly.

im not privvy to the bank's tax declaration, so i cannot answer your comment that they are also misdeclaring their income. maybe you have some proofs or hard facts or evidence to show that the bank where i work is misdeclaring their income. for your info only, i think this is a no brainer, because banks would not deliberately misdeclare their income and in reality they would rather announce to the whole world that they are very profitable and earning a significant amount.

bakit po gusto nilang magdeclare ng mas malaking kita? perceptions is the key word here just like the philippines international financial standing. sa palagay niyo po ba pag nagdeclare ang bangko na di sila kumikita o maliit lang ang kita (para lang umiwas magbayad ng tamang tax) ay makakabuti iyon sa kanilang negosyo? HINDI PO, kasi pag sinabi ng bangko na wala silang kita o maliit ang kita, mawawalan sila ng kliyente. Kahit ako aalisin ko ang mga deposito ko kung alam kong tagilid ang kalagayan ng bangko. Sino ba ang gustong mag-alisan ang kanilang kliyente. Alalahanin po natin na ang banking industry is the most susceptible to malicious rumors. Marinig lang ng mga kliyente ng nalulugi ang bangko, magwiwithdraw na ng mga deposits nila ang mga yun, resulta bank run. Sino naperwisyo ang bangko ba? OO, pati na rin ang mga depositors. at higit sa lahat naperwisyo ang image ng pilipinas sa buong mundo dahil sa mahinang financial institutions ng bansa.

i dont know what you mean you could not offset the sales tax. percentage tax by and large is good if, this is a big IF, you have a large tax base which the philippines unfortunately does not have right now. so, to enlarge the tax base govt imposes the VAT. as i stated earlier, vat/evat is a necessary evil. when it was signed into law the philippines was on the brink of defaulting its financial obligations and becoming a social pariah in the international financial community just like north korea and iran who are shunned by investors and other countries. at least iran has a vast oil reserves to offset their being tagged as a financial outcast, while the philippines has none to tide itself.

1. Read my post again. I said that the OWNER of the bank you work for is probably just as culpable of misdeclaring income. I know you haven't pointed fingers, however, you should check the generalizations at the door because not all those who complain about the VAT are from the AB class, nor are they all tax evaders. Again, its a complaint and NOT A VIOLENT OPPOSITION.

2. I'll agree with you that perception is important in choosing a bank and its reputation for being big and stable helps a lot. But please don't make depositors who withdraw their hard-earned money as scapegoats for a bank's failure. Thus far, banks like Orient Bank, Urban Bank, Monte de Piedad, RBSM all failed because of the bank's MISMANAGEMENT more than malicious rumors. And yes, ang talagang napeperwisyo ay ang depositor dahil pera nila na pinaghirapan ang nasa bangko.

3. The percentage tax applies to all transactions just like the VAT, however it has a lower rate (usually 4%) and the tax is not offset by any other tax. The tax base is not affected.

With VAT, you can claim a deduction for the input VAT you paid vs. output VAT. And there's the difference.

[maverickjazzy]

1. Read my post again. I said that the OWNER of the bank you work for is probably just as culpable of misdeclaring income. I know you haven't pointed fingers, however, you should check the generalizations at the door because not all those who complain about the VAT are from the AB class, nor are they all tax evaders. Again, its a complaint and NOT A VIOLENT OPPOSITION.

2. I'll agree with you that perception is important in choosing a bank and its reputation for being big and stable helps a lot. But please don't make depositors who withdraw their hard-earned money as scapegoats for a bank's failure. Thus far, banks like Orient Bank, Urban Bank, Monte de Piedad, RBSM all failed because of the bank's MISMANAGEMENT more than malicious rumors. And yes, ang talagang napeperwisyo ay ang depositor dahil pera nila na pinaghirapan ang nasa bangko.

3. The percentage tax applies to all transactions just like the VAT, however it has a lower rate (usually 4%) and the tax is not offset by any other tax. The tax base is not affected.

With VAT, you can claim a deduction for the input VAT you paid vs. output VAT. And there's the difference.

1. where in my post did I state that the only people complaining about VAT belongs to the AB class, what I said that the most affected by VAT are the AB class because they have a higher purchasing power compared to most of us filipinos. when you stated that the owner of the bank where i work is probably culpable of misdeclaring income, you are implying subvertly that the bank itself is the one misdeclaring the income. what if the owner's income only comes from his banking business? then it also implied that the bank is guilty.

but for yor info only, there is no single owner of the bank, as in the case of most banks, it is a corporation, with several thousands of stockholders. therefore if you said that the owner is misdeclaring the income, you are stating that those thousands of stockholders are guilty themselves.

also id' like to point out that it is very difficult for the bank to misdeclare their income because BSP has very stringent measures to prevent these things from happening. BSP audits these bank's books regularly, sometimes every six months.

well i've seen a lot of rallies by the leftists against VAT that have turned violently.

2. please read my posts again. nowhere did i mentioned that the depositors should be made as a scapegoat for any bank's bankruptcy. i only stated that malicious rumors normally resulted or compelled most of the bank's clients to withdraw their deposits. i know several instances of malicious rumors where a normally stable and profitable bank became victim. to cite an example, equitable bank during the trial of former pres estrada. according to several of my friends who work in that bank, it almost became bankrupt due to those malicious rumors surrounding the trial, many big clients/depositors withdrew, when in reality the bank is being managed well and is very profitable. imagine if a bank as big as equitable became bankrupt, i shudder to think what are its implications to the country's financial standing.

3. as in my previous posts percentage tax is good only if you have a large tax base. the tax base im referring to does not only pertain to the amount of income the tax payer earns but it also pertain to the number of tax payers.

so if our country only has about 4million taxpayer and most of them are salaried workers (with just enough income), the govt has initiated a tax law that will cover another sector of society (not just the poor salaried employees) but also those professionals that are poorly covered by the existing taxation at that time (doctors, actors, dentists, small/medium enterpreneurs, architects, accountants, etc) who practices their profession privately.

these professionals have a great leeway or chance to misdeclare their incomes although i have to make it clear that im not accusing anyone. but the spirit of the vat law clearly tries to prevent or minimize tax misdeclaration by this sector.

[maverickjazzy]

anyway, the debate regarding evat has now became moot and academic. evat is now a law and its author, recto has already paid the political price for authoring it.

there are some bad things that resulted from vat/evat and also several great things which resulted from it. foremost of which is the stable and strong peso. healthy stock market. improve credit ratings of the country. improved perceptions from investors. and the best of them all is the low inflation rate.

honestly, when i heard that evat has turned into law and implemented, my no. 1 concern is the inflation rate and/or prices of commodities. i expected that the inflation rate would double to about 10-14 percent. but in reality the exact opposite happened. inflation has dipped to about 2-4 percent these past three years compared to about 6-8 percent before evat was implemented. this low inflation rate resulted to healthy and stable prices of goods and commodities.

ayos ah, napakakritikal ko sa arroyo government pag kausap ko mga co-employees at kaibigan ko, tapos dito sa tsikot idinidepensa ko ang isa sa mga mga law/policy niya.

[Altis6453]

1. Ok, I'll be more specific. The majority owners of your bank are probably just as culpable. I'm just applying the same logic which you used when you equated those who complain about the VAT with tax evaders.

2. Rallies by leftists that have turned violent due to the VAT? As far as I can remember, there were no rallies regarding the additional VATwhich turned violent unlike those who were protesting against government for graft and corruption.

3. FYI, hindi pwede mag-malinis ang EPCIB sa nangyari kay Erap since the Go's who were then the majority owners were admittedly dealing with him. Anong malicious rumor doon? If the bank's chairman was dealing with a government official who was widely seen as corrupt don't you think he had a hand in the bank's dip in reputation and the resulting bank run? Again, the cause for failure of most banks is not the malicious rumors but mismanagement due to DOSRI transactions by bank officers and directors. A bank's success only goes so far as its officers' ability to properly and ethically manage it. If depositors lose confidence in them, then I can find no fault in those depositors withdrawing their hard-earned cash.

4. I understand what you mean about the tax base. Do you even know what percentage taxation is? The percentage tax system operates like the vat such that it covers almost all transactions from purchases of goods to purchase of services. Basta meron kang binili o inupahan, kasama na ang percentage tax and FYI it is not limited to 4M salaried employees. Wala nang offset. It would do you good to read up on it.

5. There was a way to tax professionals including doctors, artists, brokers, etc. But this was prone to leaks due to lax implementing rules by the BIR.

I'll make this point. Even if the reasons cited for the additional 2% VAT is for the fiscal stability of the country, I'll submit that plugging the leaks in tax collection by the BIR and BoC would have obviated the need for it. I think majority of voters felt the same way that's why Recto was not reelected.

Was the additional 2% vat helpful? Sure, but that's only looking at the fiscal side of the economy. Tama ka dumami ang pera na pangbayad utang ng gobyerno. The other dimension would be the human side of your tax base. It lessens the ability to spend for other goods and services such as health care, medicine, education, not to mention the difficulty in getting basic services such as electricity and water which are now subject to vat.

[Galactus]

Guys

Create na lang kayo ng thread about VAT/E-VAT, so that others, including me, will have a clear idea and join in on the discussion. Kasi pag Recto thread, baka isipin nila tungkol pa rin sa halalan.

Nice arguments btw. Nagkaroon tuloy ako ng refresher course. Will read up a bit on VAT, and try to express my opinions later

[oldblue]

hindi naman kailangan pa i-explain ang EVAT. the EVAT was intended to satisfy the concerns of the international community at our expense.

it just so happens that this Recto guy, instead of finding alternative means to solve the problem passed the buck onto the people. kailangan pa ba maging senator sya kung ganyan lang ma-come up nya? kaya yan ang inabot niya, the very people whom he transferred the burden to, gumanti lang.

[oldblue]

sinong nag-generalize? i only mentioned marcos as a tangible example for a comparative counterpoint.



it's the corruption and preferrential treatment the government-friendly tax evading tycoons benefit from that's causing the negative perception of international businesses with regards to the philippine economic climate.

if government cleans up the system, mas maraming magiinvest dito sa pinas. heck baka pati mga pinoy immigrants natin ma-engganyong bumalik at dito na lang magnegosyo.

OT na ulit.

tycoons may get the bulk of the money that they earn here but they still invest here. bumabalik pa din sa mamamayan in terms of new infrastructures, new hubs, new jobs, new opportunities.

we always complain that govt. takes a lot of money from us thru taxes and yet we can't feel the effects of our contributions. here comes the tycoons who cheat their taxes in order for them to build more here.

didn't you know that for every SM branch na ginagawa dito, they're also contributing in terms of infrastructure like roads & bridges. take a look at rockwell and the fort for instance, the flyovers to these communities were
contributed by the developers themselves then turned over to the govt. I believe even SM Moa contributed a lot to the development of the reclamation area.


plus, the tycoons do open up foundations like free schooling, construction of public schools and highways in the provinces, scholarships, and even donations to depressed communities. I know this bec. one of these so-called tycoons is my dad's boss. almost monthly my dad's group and their boss go to the provinces and do these activities. I even overhead them once in the golf course, alotting part of their budget to construct schools in the nearby north and south.

this is concrete help to the people. no politicking, no billboard signs saying donated by congressman or mayor so and so, no media to glorify them.

just so you know that our world is not black and white.

[Galactus]

In the real world, foundations set up by conglomorates are merely intended as tax shields. Donations made by these conglomorates are treated as tax deductibles, thus lowering their corporate income taxes.

How do I know? Because I work for a conglomorate with such a foundation. And this fact is common knowledge with the employees and even our auditors.

However, said foundations actually do charity work naman. Ilang beses na nga akong sumali sa mga mercy missions nila.

[maverickjazzy]

1. Ok, I'll be more specific. The majority owners of your bank are probably just as culpable. I'm just applying the same logic which you used when you equated those who complain about the VAT with tax evaders.

2. Rallies by leftists that have turned violent due to the VAT? As far as I can remember, there were no rallies regarding the additional VATwhich turned violent unlike those who were protesting against government for graft and corruption.

3. FYI, hindi pwede mag-malinis ang EPCIB sa nangyari kay Erap since the Go's who were then the majority owners were admittedly dealing with him. Anong malicious rumor doon? If the bank's chairman was dealing with a government official who was widely seen as corrupt don't you think he had a hand in the bank's dip in reputation and the resulting bank run? Again, the cause for failure of most banks is not the malicious rumors but mismanagement due to DOSRI transactions by bank officers and directors. A bank's success only goes so far as its officers' ability to properly and ethically manage it. If depositors lose confidence in them, then I can find no fault in those depositors withdrawing their hard-earned cash.

4. I understand what you mean about the tax base. Do you even know what percentage taxation is? The percentage tax system operates like the vat such that it covers almost all transactions from purchases of goods to purchase of services. Basta meron kang binili o inupahan, kasama na ang percentage tax and FYI it is not limited to 4M salaried employees. Wala nang offset. It would do you good to read up on it.

5. There was a way to tax professionals including doctors, artists, brokers, etc. But this was prone to leaks due to lax implementing rules by the BIR.

I'll make this point. Even if the reasons cited for the additional 2% VAT is for the fiscal stability of the country, I'll submit that plugging the leaks in tax collection by the BIR and BoC would have obviated the need for it. I think majority of voters felt the same way that's why Recto was not reelected.

Was the additional 2% vat helpful? Sure, but that's only looking at the fiscal side of the economy. Tama ka dumami ang pera na pangbayad utang ng gobyerno. The other dimension would be the human side of your tax base. It lessens the ability to spend for other goods and services such as health care, medicine, education, not to mention the difficulty in getting basic services such as electricity and water which are now subject to vat.

1. there are no majority owners in the bank where i work, only major stockholders owning between 5 to 12 percent of the shares. when you say majority owner, they own more than 50 percent of the total shares.

could you name some of these major stockholders, btw please name first the bank where i work before you make any sweeping accusations against some people. it is so easy to just label people with names before presenting hard facts and evidences.

2. where did you hibernate? hindi mo nakita yung mga gulo sa rally nila against evat? i should have known some people on the major tv networks so that i could present you the actual footage. they turn violent against a particular issue like graft & corruption but suddenly became peaceful against evat? this is unbecoming of them and out of character . almost always their protest rallies are unruly.

3. di ko pwedeng depensahan ang mga Go na previous owners ng epcib because i dont know them personally. the malicious rumors are not related to the Go's but rather to those rumors that many big depositors have withdrawn their money from the bank. but in reality there is no truth to the rumor. ano ang resulta? yung mga maliliit na depositors, and there are hundreds of thousands of them, became concerned and withdrawn their money. please read my previous posts again because i didnt mention the go's as the cause of those nasty rumors, i stated that some big depositors were allegedly withdrawing their money.

4. i know percentage taxation, but it seems that you couldnt understand my statement that the reason govt switched to vat/evat is due to the small tax base, i never stated that percentage taxation is the main reason.

5. there was a way? how? kaya nga nagpasa ng bagong batas , eto po yung VAT/EVAT para ma-plug yung mga loopholes or leaks for taxing professionals na gumagawa ng private practice.

There is a way to plug the leaks para di na kailang ang additional 2%? eto na nga ang pinakamabilis na paraan para mapagtakpan ang mga leaks na yun sa taxation law natin. at kung hinintay pa natin na linisin ng gobyerno ang sarili nilang kapalpakan, aabutin na tayo ng delubyo di pa nalinis yan at malamang blacklisted na ang pilipinas sa international financial market na higit na malaking problema at lalong magpapahirap sa mga pilipino. drastic times calls for drastic measures. WE SHOULD LOOK FOR THE LONG TERM EFFECT OF THIS LAW ON OUR COUNTRY'S FINANCES AND THE WELL-BEING OF THE PEOPLE INTHE LONG RUN.

less money to spend for food and medicine because of vat? sinabi ko na nga po sa previous post ko na pinababa nito ang inflation rate at ginawang stable ang prices ng goods at commodities. kuwentahin natin kung hindi naimplement ang evat last 2004 versus kung naiimplement ito

evat not implemented:
inflation rate 6-8%
halimbawa lang sabihin natin na ang price ng isang kilong bigas ay P100 nung 2004 at gamitin nating inflation rate ay 7% per year. kung walang evat by this time ang price ng one kilo rice ay P122.50

if evat was implemented
inflation rate 2-4%
using the starting price of a kilo of rice as P100 at 3% inflation rate per annum, by this time 2007 ang price ng rice ay P109.20 plus add natin yun evat na 2% equals P111.40

factual po ang mga inflation rates na yan at di ko lang ginawa, kung gusto niyo kumuha kayo ng kopya sa NEDA o sa National Statistical Boards.

so ano sa tingin niyo ang mas nakatulong sa mga tao ang walang evat na mataas ang inflation rate o ang may evat na mababa ang inflation rate
obvious po na mas maliit ang itinaas ng presyo pag may evat pero mababa ang inflation rate

with all honesty at sarili ko lang po ito, dahil ako ay laging naggrocery at namamalengke, napansin ko po na di gaanong tumaas ang mga bilihin these past three years compared to the previous years before evat was implemented.

[oldblue]

In the real world, foundations set up by conglomorates are merely intended as tax shields. Donations made by these conglomorates are treated as tax deductibles, thus lowering their corporate income taxes.

How do I know? Because I work for a conglomorate with such a foundation. And this fact is common knowledge with the employees and even our auditors.

However, said foundations actually do charity work naman. Ilang beses na nga akong sumali sa mga mercy missions nila.

it's common knowledge naman yan. but the thing is when you see a tycoon getting personally involved in these affairs, highly doubt that his sole purpose is to get a tax break.

ordinary people like us frown on them bec. we only see them as an income minus expense people. but I'd like to believe that they are the masters of the law of nature: give and take. check and balance.

if you'll read some of there biographies, charity is as important to them as profit. i'm sure with all the money and power that they have, they're not stupid enough to think that they can bring it all to the afterlife.

[Altis6453]

1. there are no majority owners in the bank where i work, only major stockholders owning between 5 to 12 percent of the shares. when you say majority owner, they own more than 50 percent of the total shares. As I've said, I applied the same logic you used when you immediately equated those who complain against EVAT with tax evaders.

could you name some of these major stockholders, btw please name first the bank where i work before you make any sweeping accusations against some people. it is so easy to just label people with names before presenting hard facts and evidences. Why don't you name your tax evaders first? You seem to be a little too defensive when it comes to people making sweeping generalizations on those groups with whom you hold in high regard, yet you have no problem making generalizations yourself.

2. where did you hibernate? hindi mo nakita yung mga gulo sa rally nila against evat? i should have known some people on the major tv networks so that i could present you the actual footage. they turn violent against a particular issue like graft & corruption but suddenly became peaceful against evat? this is unbecoming of them and out of character . almost always their protest rallies are unruly. On the contrary, I've been following this issue very closely and you probably need to check the footage you're talking about before telling me that rallies against VAT have turned violent. Para walang issue ilabas mo nalang ang footages na sinasabi mo na violent rallies against vat and I'll admit that I was mistaken.

3. di ko pwedeng depensahan ang mga Go na previous owners ng epcib because i dont know them personally. the malicious rumors are not related to the Go's but rather to those rumors that many big depositors have withdrawn their money from the bank. but in reality there is no truth to the rumor. ano ang resulta? yung mga maliliit na depositors, and there are hundreds of thousands of them, became concerned and withdrawn their money. please read my previous posts again because i didnt mention the go's as the cause of those nasty rumors, i stated that some big depositors were allegedly withdrawing their money. Then stop using EPCIB as an example if you're not aware of what went on during the Estrada impeachment. The point I was making was that impression of the bank's performance counts as much as the reputation of the officers behind it.


4. i know percentage taxation, but it seems that you couldnt understand my statement that the reason govt switched to vat/evat is due to the small tax base, i never stated that percentage taxation is the main reason. Useless arguing this point with you. The reason why I mentioned percentage tax is because it has THE SAME TAX BASE AS THE VAT SINCE IT AFFECTS ALL GOODS AND SERVICES PURCHASED, BUT OFFERS LITTLE LEAKS.

5. there was a way? how? kaya nga nagpasa ng bagong batas , eto po yung VAT/EVAT para ma-plug yung mga loopholes or leaks for taxing professionals na gumagawa ng private practice.

There is a way to plug the leaks para di na kailang ang additional 2%? eto na nga ang pinakamabilis na paraan para mapagtakpan ang mga leaks na yun sa taxation law natin. at kung hinintay pa natin na linisin ng gobyerno ang sarili nilang kapalpakan, aabutin na tayo ng delubyo di pa nalinis yan at malamang blacklisted na ang pilipinas sa international financial market na higit na malaking problema at lalong magpapahirap sa mga pilipino. drastic times calls for drastic measures. WE SHOULD LOOK FOR THE LONG TERM EFFECT OF THIS LAW ON OUR COUNTRY'S FINANCES AND THE WELL-BEING OF THE PEOPLE INTHE LONG RUN. What convenient reasoning. So, if I understand you correctly, you'd plug a leak in the tax system by collecting more from those who already pay their taxes properly. That's a cop out and you should really expect more from the people who run this government.

less money to spend for food and medicine because of vat? sinabi ko na nga po sa previous post ko na pinababa nito ang inflation rate at ginawang stable ang prices ng goods at commodities. kuwentahin natin kung hindi naimplement ang evat last 2004 versus kung naiimplement ito This is were you're mistaken again. Subjecting basic services such as water, electricity and medicine to vat did not help people by way of your the lower inflation rate


evat not implemented:
inflation rate 6-8%
halimbawa lang sabihin natin na ang price ng isang kilong bigas ay P100 nung 2004 at gamitin nating inflation rate ay 7% per year. kung walang evat by this time ang price ng one kilo rice ay P122.50

if evat was implemented
inflation rate 2-4%
using the starting price of a kilo of rice as P100 at 3% inflation rate per annum, by this time 2007 ang price ng rice ay P109.20 plus add natin yun evat na 2% equals P111.40

factual po ang mga inflation rates na yan at di ko lang ginawa, kung gusto niyo kumuha kayo ng kopya sa NEDA o sa National Statistical Boards.

so ano sa tingin niyo ang mas nakatulong sa mga tao ang walang evat na mataas ang inflation rate o ang may evat na mababa ang inflation rate
obvious po na mas maliit ang itinaas ng presyo pag may evat pero mababa ang inflation rate

Sinabi ko naman tama ka at dumami ang pera ng gobyerno para magbayad sa utang kaya hindi tumaas ang inflation kung yan ang gusto mong sabihin. My math is simple and practical though. The more taxes exacted from you, the less spending power you have which is why people now spend less for medicine, health care or education.

with all honesty at sarili ko lang po ito, dahil ako ay laging naggrocery at namamalengke, napansin ko po na di gaanong tumaas ang mga bilihin these past three years compared to the previous years before evat was implemented.

[metatron]

tycoons may get the bulk of the money that they earn here but they still invest here. bumabalik pa din sa mamamayan in terms of new infrastructures, new hubs, new jobs, new opportunities.

we always complain that govt. takes a lot of money from us thru taxes and yet we can't feel the effects of our contributions. here comes the tycoons who cheat their taxes in order for them to build more here.

didn't you know that for every SM branch na ginagawa dito, they're also contributing in terms of infrastructure like roads & bridges. take a look at rockwell and the fort for instance, the flyovers to these communities were
contributed by the developers themselves then turned over to the govt. I believe even SM Moa contributed a lot to the development of the reclamation area.

plus, the tycoons do open up foundations like free schooling, construction of public schools and highways in the provinces, scholarships, and even donations to depressed communities. I know this bec. one of these so-called tycoons is my dad's boss. almost monthly my dad's group and their boss go to the provinces and do these activities. I even overhead them once in the golf course, alotting part of their budget to construct schools in the nearby north and south.

this is concrete help to the people. no politicking, no billboard signs saying donated by congressman or mayor so and so, no media to glorify them.

just so you know that our world is not black and white.

so are you saying these tycoons can't possibly be kind enough to continue being charitable if they started playing fair and paid the proper taxes? or is it they can no longer afford to be charitable if they do play fair?

if you're willing to give these tycoons a "tax break" why not give everybody else the benefit of not paying their taxes and not having to fear government repercussion afterwards. yung tax savings ko pambibili ko na lang ng stuff sa MOA para kikita na si Sy (thus ensuring more charitable investments from his family in the future), meron pa akong bagong stuff. win-win di ba?

colorful enough for you?

[oldblue]

so are you saying these tycoons can't possibly be kind enough to continue being charitable if they started playing fair and paid the proper taxes? or is it they can no longer afford to be charitable if they do play fair?

if you're willing to give these tycoons a "tax break" why not give everybody else the benefit of not paying their taxes and not having to fear government repercussion afterwards. yung tax savings ko pambibili ko na lang ng stuff sa MOA para kikita na si Sy (thus ensuring more charitable investments from his family in the future), meron pa akong bagong stuff. win-win di ba?

colorful enough for you?

nope you still answered in black and white they already pay in millions/billions in taxes. how can you compare them to us

[maverickjazzy]

1. As I've said, I applied the same logic you used when you immediately equated those who complain against EVAT with tax evaders.
maverickjazzy's response : are you a tax evader? if not, then no need to feel hurt. as i've said before ang MALAKAS or very vocal (para mas maintindihan mo) na magreklamo ay yung mga tax evader at hindi nagbabayad ng tax. sino ba ang mga vocal na nagrereklamo laban sa evat? ang mga leftists, palagay mo ba nagbabayad sila ng income tax meron siguro pero karamihan sa kanila ay professional rallyists na walang trabaho at walang ginawa kundi magrally at manggulo.

could you name some of these major stockholders, btw please name first the bank where i work before you make any sweeping accusations against some people. it is so easy to just label people with names before presenting hard facts and evidences. Why don't you name your tax evaders first? You seem to be a little too defensive when it comes to people making sweeping generalizations on those groups with whom you hold in high regard, yet you have no problem making generalizations yourself.
maverickjazzy's response : hahaha gotcha there, why should i be defensive? do i personally know the owners/stockholders of the bank where i work. o eto hint di ko sila kilala dahil international bank ito na based sa US. btw, you cannot accuse these stockholders of not paying taxes to our govt when in fact they are not filipinos.

2. where did you hibernate? hindi mo nakita yung mga gulo sa rally nila against evat? i should have known some people on the major tv networks so that i could present you the actual footage. they turn violent against a particular issue like graft & corruption but suddenly became peaceful against evat? this is unbecoming of them and out of character . almost always their protest rallies are unruly. On the contrary, I've been following this issue very closely and you probably need to check the footage you're talking about before telling me that rallies against VAT have turned violent. Para walang issue ilabas mo nalang ang footages na sinasabi mo na violent rallies against vat and I'll admit that I was mistaken.
maverickjazzy's response : wow! so lahat pala ng TV stations at news programs ay napapanuod mo, sarap naman ng buhay mo.
as i've said if i only knew some people on the tv networks, i would have already shown you the footage.

3. di ko pwedeng depensahan ang mga Go na previous owners ng epcib because i dont know them personally. the malicious rumors are not related to the Go's but rather to those rumors that many big depositors have withdrawn their money from the bank. but in reality there is no truth to the rumor. ano ang resulta? yung mga maliliit na depositors, and there are hundreds of thousands of them, became concerned and withdrawn their money. please read my previous posts again because i didnt mention the go's as the cause of those nasty rumors, i stated that some big depositors were allegedly withdrawing their money. Then stop using EPCIB as an example if you're not aware of what went on during the Estrada impeachment. The point I was making was that impression of the bank's performance counts as much as the reputation of the officers behind it.
maverickjazzy's response : do you know the bank's officers themselves? i dont think so, well i can vouch for the integrity and competence of my friends and they are definitely decent, tax paying and law abiding citizens of this country.


4. i know percentage taxation, but it seems that you couldnt understand my statement that the reason govt switched to vat/evat is due to the small tax base, i never stated that percentage taxation is the main reason. Useless arguing this point with you. The reason why I mentioned percentage tax is because it has THE SAME TAX BASE AS THE VAT SINCE IT AFFECTS ALL GOODS AND SERVICES PURCHASED, BUT OFFERS LITTLE LEAKS.
maverickjazzy's response : diyan ka malaking mali pakibasa po ng mabuti ang previous posts ko. it does not have the same tax base kaya ko nga isinama yung example sa mga professionals na practicing their profession privately dahil hindi masyadong ma-cover ito ng previous tax system. correct me if im wrong but the taxation system before vat was implemented is more on output taxation than on consumption taxation which is the vat. before vat, the govt was depending heavily on the income tax plus the output tax of manufacturers, when vat was implemented it shifted to consumption taxation.

5. there was a way? how? kaya nga nagpasa ng bagong batas , eto po yung VAT/EVAT para ma-plug yung mga loopholes or leaks for taxing professionals na gumagawa ng private practice.

There is a way to plug the leaks para di na kailang ang additional 2%? eto na nga ang pinakamabilis na paraan para mapagtakpan ang mga leaks na yun sa taxation law natin. at kung hinintay pa natin na linisin ng gobyerno ang sarili nilang kapalpakan, aabutin na tayo ng delubyo di pa nalinis yan at malamang blacklisted na ang pilipinas sa international financial market na higit na malaking problema at lalong magpapahirap sa mga pilipino. drastic times calls for drastic measures. WE SHOULD LOOK FOR THE LONG TERM EFFECT OF THIS LAW ON OUR COUNTRY'S FINANCES AND THE WELL-BEING OF THE PEOPLE INTHE LONG RUN. What convenient reasoning. So, if I understand you correctly, you'd plug a leak in the tax system by collecting more from those who already pay their taxes properly. That's a cop out and you should really expect more from the people who run this government.
maverickjazzy's response: who's coping out there? compare the health of the economy before and after vat was implemented. isnt it obvious that the economy is more robust and more attractive to foreign investments than before vat was implemented. people like you dont seem to understand that a nation's prosperity lies on the country's ability to produce goods and provide jobs to its citizens. so who will provide these jobs and produce goods? yun bang mga nagrarally laban sa vat? hindi po, ang magbibigay ng trabaho ay ang mga investors na kaya magtatayo ng negosyo sa pilipinas ay dahil sa tingin nila matatag ang pananalapi ng bansa. sige kung gusto mo na walang vat pagtiisan na lang natin na walang mag-invest sa bansa para lalong dumami ang walang hanapbuhay sa pilipinas. di ko na kailangang sagutin ang kritisismo mo sa gobyerno dahil matagal at maraming beses ko ng na-critize personally ang pamamalakd nila. at least kahit maraming maling nagawa ang gobyerno ni gloria arroyo, meron pa rin silang nagawang mabuti sa bansa kahit paano. at eto ang bumubuting ekonomiya ng bansa. let's give credit where credit is due and criticize those who failed on their sworn duty.

less money to spend for food and medicine because of vat? sinabi ko na nga po sa previous post ko na pinababa nito ang inflation rate at ginawang stable ang prices ng goods at commodities. kuwentahin natin kung hindi naimplement ang evat last 2004 versus kung naiimplement ito This is were you're mistaken again. Subjecting basic services such as water, electricity and medicine to vat did not help people by way of your the lower inflation rate


evat not implemented:
inflation rate 6-8%
halimbawa lang sabihin natin na ang price ng isang kilong bigas ay P100 nung 2004 at gamitin nating inflation rate ay 7% per year. kung walang evat by this time ang price ng one kilo rice ay P122.50

if evat was implemented
inflation rate 2-4%
using the starting price of a kilo of rice as P100 at 3% inflation rate per annum, by this time 2007 ang price ng rice ay P109.20 plus add natin yun evat na 2% equals P111.40

factual po ang mga inflation rates na yan at di ko lang ginawa, kung gusto niyo kumuha kayo ng kopya sa NEDA o sa National Statistical Boards.

so ano sa tingin niyo ang mas nakatulong sa mga tao ang walang evat na mataas ang inflation rate o ang may evat na mababa ang inflation rate
obvious po na mas maliit ang itinaas ng presyo pag may evat pero mababa ang inflation rate

Sinabi ko naman tama ka at dumami ang pera ng gobyerno para magbayad sa utang kaya hindi tumaas ang inflation kung yan ang gusto mong sabihin. My math is simple and practical though. The more taxes exacted from you, the less spending power you have which is why people now spend less for medicine, health care or education.
maverickjazzy's response : simple nga ang math mo pero naramdaman ba ng tao ang sinabi mo? kung susundin natin ang pag-iisip mo at hindi na-implement ang evat, palagay ko ngayon may general strike na ang mga major labor groups demanding for across the board wage increase na P200 dahil sa sobrang taas ng gasolina, pasahe at mga bilihin. mas gugustuhin ko na na dagdagan ang bayaran kong tax pero nananatiliang presyo ng mga bilihin kaysa wala ka ngang dagdag na tax na binabayaran pero halos doble ang itinaas na presyo ng mga bilihin. kung ganitong senaryo, mas lumiit ang kakayahan ng mga pilipino na bumili ng pagkain at gamot(same money to pay for foods and medicines but at double the price).

now i rest my case and i would not comment further on this topic except to say na at least 6.9% ang GDP increase this first quarter, much higher the previous quarters/years before vat was implemented.

[Altis6453]

now i rest my case and i would not comment further on this topic except to say na at least 6.9% ang GDP increase this first quarter, much higher the previous quarters/years before vat was implemented.

Ok, but before I rest my case, I'll make my final comments:

1. No, I pay my taxes like everyone else. So you'll understand also, being vocal is not just about joining rallies against the vat. You'll find that a lot of the intelligent criticism is done in writing and yes, it is these types of critics who hold proper jobs.

2. Ok, so you work for a multinational bank. Your stockholders all work or reside abroad. If they earn income from your bank's operations here then they are subject to income tax whether they are Filipino or not.

3. Well, if you can't present actual footages what basis do you have that rallies against vat have turned violent? Don't you find your assertions a little self-serving? Should we all take it as fact? Just to clarify, I don't watch tv for a living so maybe you should reserve your personal attacks regarding what I do.

4. You initiated the discussion on the reasons for a bank's failure or instability. I merely pointed out that the chief cause for it is mismanagement. Yes, my line of work does give me access to officers of different banks. Does this in any way strengthen or affect your argument regarding the cause of bank runs?

5. Let's just discuss tax on another thread. I'll be willing to debate this all the way if you want.

6. I guess we owe the previous Congress a big debt of gratitude for implementing the value-added tax which did nothing to erase the budget deficit when it was still at 10%, and now at 12% will be used mainly to pay for debt. Raising revenues is one thing. Solving the leaks by way of tax collection efficiency and ridding the government of corruption would help a lot more. Investors' confidence is not just about the ability of government to pay its debts but also its ability to deliver modern infrastructure and basic services which it failed to do even with the VAT. Your very same argument that investors will not invest in the Philippines without additional taxes was the very same argument used in putting in the VAT in the first place. Wow. Walang mag-iinvest sa Pilipinas? Baka naman kasi ang nilalapitan nating investor ay pare-pareho lang. Scare tactics galore. Sige, I'm shaking in my boots.

7. In case you haven't noticed, PRICES of basic goods and commodities have significantly increased due to the higher vat and the imposition of vat on utilities and professional services. Hindi nararamdaman? Why don't you ask your next door neighbor if he feels the weight of the VAT when he pays for his electricity, telephone or water bills? What about his doctor's bills?

It was great debating with you, maverickjazzy but all-in-all, I'd give your arguments the same score which you said our GDP increased. 6.9% over 100%.

[maverickjazzy]

Ok, but before I rest my case, I'll make my final comments:

1. No, I pay my taxes like everyone else. So you'll understand also, being vocal is not just about joining rallies against the vat. You'll find that a lot of the intelligent criticism is done in writing and yes, it is these types of critics who hold proper jobs.

2. Ok, so you work for a multinational bank. Your stockholders all work or reside abroad. If they earn income from your bank's operations here then they are subject to income tax whether they are Filipino or not.

3. Well, if you can't present actual footages what basis do you have that rallies against vat have turned violent? Don't you find your assertions a little self-serving? Should we all take it as fact? Just to clarify, I don't watch tv for a living so maybe you should reserve your personal attacks regarding what I do.

4. You initiated the discussion on the reasons for a bank's failure or instability. I merely pointed out that the chief cause for it is mismanagement. Yes, my line of work does give me access to officers of different banks. Does this in any way strengthen or affect your argument regarding the cause of bank runs?

5. Let's just discuss tax on another thread. I'll be willing to debate this all the way if you want.

6. I guess we owe the previous Congress a big debt of gratitude for implementing the value-added tax which did nothing to erase the budget deficit when it was still at 10%, and now at 12% will be used mainly to pay for debt. Raising revenues is one thing. Solving the leaks by way of tax collection efficiency and ridding the government of corruption would help a lot more. Investors' confidence is not just about the ability of government to pay its debts but also its ability to deliver modern infrastructure and basic services which it failed to do even with the VAT. Your very same argument that investors will not invest in the Philippines without additional taxes was the very same argument used in putting in the VAT in the first place. Wow. Walang mag-iinvest sa Pilipinas? Baka naman kasi ang nilalapitan nating investor ay pare-pareho lang. Scare tactics galore. Sige, I'm shaking in my boots.

7. In case you haven't noticed, PRICES of basic goods and commodities have significantly increased due to the higher vat and the imposition of vat on utilities and professional services. Hindi nararamdaman? Why don't you ask your next door neighbor if he feels the weight of the VAT when he pays for his electricity, telephone or water bills? What about his doctor's bills?

It was great debating with you, maverickjazzy but all-in-all, I'd give your arguments the same score which you said our GDP increased. 6.9% over 100%.

Wrong again, FYI the stockholders do not file a personal income tax nor they are required by our law to file income tax. The bank is the only one who files the income tax based on their earnings, not the stockholders themselves.

Thank you very much for the 6.9%, another 1% more and our fellow filipinos would start to feel the effect of an improving economy.

[Altis6453]

now i rest my case and i would not comment further on this topic except to say na at least 6.9% ang GDP increase this first quarter, much higher the previous quarters/years before vat was implemented.

Wrong again, FYI the stockholders do not file a personal income tax nor they are required by our law to file income tax. The bank is the only one who files the income tax based on their earnings, not the stockholders themselves.

Thank you very much for the 6.9%, another 1% more and our fellow filipinos would start to feel the effect of an improving economy.

I could be wrong but I doubt it. Just check the provisions of the NIRC, specifically Sec. 25(B). Since its a little complicated, I don't expect you to understand it.

[maverickjazzy]

I could be wrong but I doubt it. Just check the provisions of the NIRC, specifically Sec. 25(B). Since its a little complicated, I don't expect you to understand it.

wow! all kinds of people are represented here in tsikot. let's give a rousing ovation to our in-house genius. yes i wouldnt understand a thing as complicated as corporate tax and personal income tax.

you mean to say all the foreign stockholders of multinational companies with investments in the country are required by the law to file a personal income tax here?!!!

if our OFW's are exempted from filing a personal income tax what made you think that our gov't will compel these foreigners to file their income tax in the country? you are reaching there and grasping for straws with your arguments.

[oldblue]

grabe ang discussion nyo sa tax ah. parang na-appreciate ko tuloy ang witholding tax na lang. kubra kagad wala na iisipin pa hehehe

[Altis6453]

^^ Well, I'll give similar applause to you coz you finally ran into a wall. If you need help, better call somebody then...

Multinational companies normally file the tax return here in behalf of their parent companies or stockholders abroad. Withheld na pag na-remit ang dividend or ang branch profit. OFW's earn their income abroad so they are not taxed here. It's that simple. I didn't invent the provision of the law, or are you insinuating that I manufactured it? Of course, knowing you, we'd find a dissenting opinion somewhere kahit nakasulat na sa batas. Hay, its back to school for you bud, if you really cannot comprehend it.