Oil Price Watch

[uls]

This is why even Rolls-Royce recently came out with an all-electric limousine, because the company has to balance out their gas guzzling models with a zero-emission model. Do you think buyers of Rolls-Royce, Porsche and BMW cars are clamoring for cheaper rides?

what does that have to do with "clamoring for cheaper rides"?

are electric Porsches, BMWs, Rolls Royces cheaper than their petrol counterparts?

is a Prius cheaper than a corolla?

you lost your train of thought

EVs are more expensive than their petrol counterparts

how much is a Chevy Volt?

people buy EVs not coz EVs are cheaper. people buy EVs coz they think they'll save money on fuel which in the long run will make up for the higher price they paid for the EVs (that's what they think)

people who buy Rolls Royces and Porsches can afford to fuel up their cars so why do Rolls Royce and Porsche have to make EVs? Coz they have to.

Right now, you cannot be a competitive automaker if you can't build EVs. Every automaker will eventually have to have EVs in their product line coz that's where the industry is going and that's what the market will demand in the future

they know there will be strong demand for EVs in the future. they have to have products ready. they can't let customers go somewhere else. Rolls Royce and Porsche customers will eventually want electric Rolls and electric Porsches. If they dont have e-Rolls Royces and e-Porsches in their product line, they'll lose customers

it's money

right now, automakers' cash cows aren't EVs. the cash cows are motor vehicles that run on oil. the money they make from selling those cars go to subsidize R&D on EVs

[uls]

Ah, you might want to check what happened in 2007 when the government started supporting the LPG industry.

http://www.mb.com.ph/articles/293555...-fuel-vehicles

A year later (2008) taxi operators started converting.

from the article above:

The LPG Industry Association (LPGIA) and concerned government agencies will be holding the 1st Philippine Auto-LPG Summit on 22 November 2007 at the Mandarin Oriental with the aim of strengthening policies pertaining to Auto-LPG.

LPGIA and concerned govt agencies? a special interest group (association of local LPG suppliers) lobbied the govt to promote autogas to the public

taxi operators start converting to LPG

who gained? the LPG association members, some govt people

dude, it's about the money

[anonemus]

You're skewing the argument.

I'm not contending that market forces (business associations, automakers, oil companies) do things because its good for the environment or good for the people. They're doing things because of profit. No argument here.

Your premise: people and market forces move to alt energy because of money.

My premise (if you care enough to read carefully the points I'm making) is that environmentalists and some governments influences and/or forces the market players and consumers to change their business practices and spending choices.

The electric Rolls-Royce/BMW/Porsche argument is to show you that buyers of these cars don't give a damn if petrol costs $10/gallon. But Rolls-Royce/BMW/Porsche companies are being forced by government regulation to produce more environment-friendly fleets or else their profit will take a beating by being fined heavily or being forced out of the market.

And who do you think forces these governments to make stricter environmental regulations?

[uls]

And who do you think forces these governments to make stricter environmental regulations?

LEFT LEANING IDEOLOGUES

[uls]

And who do you think forces these governments to make stricter environmental regulations?

[anonemus]

Correction: LEFT LEANING ENVIRONMENTAL IDEOLOGUES.


Or do you prefer a RIGHT-WING, WAR-MONGERING, OIL-SUCKING MORON?

[anonemus]

it's always about money

Right!

[uls]

left-wing, tree-hugging, anti-business

[anonemus]

Oy, idol ko yan! ^

I'm sure you would've voted for this guy if you could have

[anonemus]

...and the reason why Obama won and McCain lost in the election? The economy FAILED under the uber-capitalist, free-market, money-is-everything believer Bush administration.

[tidus1203]

And guess what Obama is likely not going to win a 2nd term. The US mid term elections was a huge win for the Republicans in the Senate and they even now control the House (traditionally they are right win conservatives and free market capitalists) as a sign of displeasure for Obama. Because left wingers don't have the better solution. Nanalo lang si Obama cause people tend to love socialist policies during a recession kasi naghihirap sila so they want thee government to help them and in the process the US is even more deeper hole than it was prior to Obama. Ronald Reagan is arguably the best US President of recent history and he is a strict FREE MARKET CAPITALIST. America prospered under Reagan... Of course there has to be some regulations din din pwede sobrang free handed...

As free market capitalist like to say its not PERFECT, but its the BEST system available...

[anonemus]

^

Funny how the Red Scare card is being played up on Obama when in fact he's no socialist just as PNoy is no socialist, either. Both of them are populists. Obama is a Democrat and Democrats believe in a regulated market to bring out the best in capitalism while trimming down its excesses -- like what happened to the financial collapse in Wall Street that affected everyone, including our own economy. Under Reaganomics, rich Americans prospered while the middle class stayed the same.

For me the best US President in recent history was JFK. He espoused for both economic growth and social equity. He's no commie or socialist, by the way.

The best economic system right now is China's mixture of communism and capitalism. It has a rapidly growing economy that has made more people rich but at the same time is regulating its business policies to avoid the problems faced by Western economies.

It's still not a perfect economic system, but it's proving to be better than the US free-market economy. Kaya nga si Warren Buffett (a die-hard capitalist) and other global investors are in China.

See this CNBC video where Buffett and Bill Gates visited China and BYD recently:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?play=1&video=1601944404

But this is getting way out of topic already.

[uls]

gimme a break

China's business model is to SELL GOODS TO THE US AND NOT BUY GOODS FROM THE US

that's my summary of China's economy

China deliberately maintains a trade surplus with the US

China sells goods to the US, earns dollars, but instead of buying US goods with the dollars they earn (which is what they should be doing), China buys US treasuries (saves the dollars to earn interest)

almost every country in Asia is a trade surplus country. Everyone wants to be a net exporter

Asian central banks are overflowing with dollars

all they do is sell to the US. they buy very little from the US

kaya tama lang dine-devalue ng Fed ang USD. to punish those dollar savers. now the dollar savers are seeing their dollar assets lose value. they should have used those dollars to buy US goods. Kaya nga trade eh

the Fed is FORCE REBALANCING the global economy by devaluing the USD

that's a big F-U to the trade surplus countries

sobra OT na tayo

[uls]

and BTW, i prefer the free market survival of the fittest system

i'm against govt central planning

i'm against govt interference/intrusion

i'm against the welfare nanny state system

the govt should not hold back the strong so the weak can catch up

what's equality? it's punishing winners and rewarding losers

i don't wanna live in a system like that

i don't wanna live in a system where the govt to taxes someone's success to subsidize someone else's failure

if you're strong, you win. if you're weak, you lose

matira ang matibay

[anonemus]

Talagang OT na ito!

The point here is that China--a communist country--can play the capitalist game well and might beat the world's number 1 capitalist country in the future if the US doesn't compete better. Here's the economic projection made by Walt Street's premiere capitalist firm Goldman Sachs on China vs US. 15 year from now, China will surpass the US economy in terms of GDP:



And the Chinese government together with its private sector are leading this. In its auto industry, its even more aggressively pushing for alternative energy to lessen its dependence from foreign oil.

...the country now imports 240 million tons of crude oil, constituting 54% of total oil intake. China is also responsible for 28% of the world's carbon dioxide emissions. The officials acknowledged widespread praise for electric cars due to their high efficiency and zero emissions, as well as their other advantages such as low noise levels.

http://autonews.gasgoo.com/china-new...r-110303.shtml

I would venture to say that this guy has something to do with it...

[shadow]

ah...meron ng katapat si Uls.

Tidus tag team na kayo...

[anonemus]

Just a quick rejoinder on this very OT topic. When the communist USSR collapsed and defragmented in the early 90s, Russia decided to adopt free market economy.

True to form, survival of the fittest ruled.

And who were the fittest? The Russian Mafia. Currently, the mafia controls the government, the banks, businesses, media, the illegal arms trade and everything else

Russia is the world's second largest nuclear power. But despite billions of dollars in western aid, it remains on the verge of economic collapse. Crime and corruption have reduced it to a state of near lawlessness...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/...in;contentBody

[anonemus]

This discussion is really going OT and not productive anymore. The issue is the current oil price hike.

Para naman on topic, can I suggest that we put our brains together and suggest solutions on how tsikot members can get more info about the oil price increase and get tips on how to adapt?

In truth, we in Pinas can barely do anything about OPEC's current hold on the oil market and our country's dependency on it for now.

But there are practical steps that Pinoy motorists can make. Among these:

(1) 100 tips to save gas: http://ecomodder.com/forum/EM-hyperm...ecodriving.php

(2) For some who can afford it, encourage the conversion to autoLPG as advocated by ghosthunter. (I would even add here to lobby to government to subsidize cost of conversion)

(3) Encourage car buyers to consider more fuel-efficient vehicles (tidus' pet Ford Fiesta, Starex Gold's Hyundai Accent, etc.)

(4) uls to continue giving us inside info on subsequent oil price increases in the coming weeks.

(5) ano pa kaya?

[uls]

^^^

that is if nothing goes wrong from now till 2025 when China matches the US according to the chart

do you think China can sustain 8%-10% annual growth for the next 15 years?

China already has high inflation. they will have to slow down their economy. they have to raise rates. sooner or later they will have to let the renminbi strengthen. when the renminbi strengthens it will make China goods more expensive. as it is now, prices of China goods are already rising. China labor cost is rising

capitalists are already moving factories to lower cost countries

And the Chinese government together with its private sector are leading this. In its auto industry, its even more aggressively pushing for alternative energy to lessen its dependence from foreign oil.

do some research. China has been making deals with oil producers all over the world (specially in Africa). China's economy is highly dependent on foreign oil. China knows alt energy won't solve its oil dependence. China is securing sources of oil all over

in the not too distant future, the US and China will go to war over oil

in the not too distant future, the USD will lose its reserve currency status. guess what will happen to China's dollar wealth (that is if China didnt sell its dollar assets before the dollar loses reserve currency status)

that Goldman Sachs prediction assumes things will go smoothly

the world is a dynamic place

did Goldman predict what's happening now in North Africa and the Middle East? did Buffett?

[uls]

ok stop na ako. sobra OT na. sorry