Oil Price Watch

[uls]

Matanong nga kita: do you believe that OPEC is a cartel or not?

OPEC used to have strong influence on oil price decades ago

but since large oil reserves in the North Sea, Canada, Gulf of Mexico, Alaska have been discovered and developed, OPEC's influence on oil price has diminished

and Russia (the world's biggest oil producer) is not an OPEC member

OPEC is no longer as influential as they used to be

calling OPEC a cartel is so 1970s

[tidus1203]

And bottomline is OPEC has to supply the market fairly parin cause if they under supply and the price shoots up the research for alternative energy will accelerate and if that happens they lose their income cause people start to ditch oil in favor of alternatives... Supply the market too much and they will hurt too with lower prices...

OPEC these days is just an association and a group. The market is way too big for them to control. That's is what I love about the free markets, no one can control it its just too big... Just SUPPLY and DEMAND. And speculators are part of the DEMAND side kaya prices are being pushed up even though they have no intention to use the oil...

[uls]

Now can you pick up a dictionary and look up the word oligopoly and tell me honestly that Shell/Chevron/Petron's dominance in the local market is anything but?

they are the biggest players in the field

they're the fittest

it's natural that they dominate the petroleum business in the country

who do you expect to dominate the petroleum business in the country? Seaoil? Phoenix?

[uls]

And bottomline is OPEC has to supply the market fairly parin cause if they under supply and the price shoots up the research for alternative energy will accelerate and if that happens they lose their income cause people start to ditch oil in favor of alternatives... Supply the market too much and they will hurt too with lower prices...

OPEC these days is just an association and a group. The market is way too big for them to control. That's I love the free markets, no one can control it its just too big...

add ko pa

when OPEC says they'll cut production, some members don't really follow

some still continue producing as much as usual

hey, some of them need the money

[uls]

RE: anonemus' reply to safeorigin's post:

Thanks for this anectodal and helpful contribution, safeorigin. But it doesn't really prove if there is collusion or not as this is a transaction at the gas station level. Unless your uncles are the ones buying and refining crude oil, and then distributing and retailing gas and diesel.

you posted an article where the writer pointed out that new players are buying fuel from local suppliers. parang para sa writer di pwede ganun. parang he's saying dapat lahat ng new players nag i-import ng sariling supply

i posted yesterday explaining that not all new players are capable of importing refined products. mas madali for some new players bumili nalang sa local supplier kesa mag import

safeorigin's post backed up what is said. his uncles' gas stations (one of them Total) buys fuel from local suppliers

safeorigin wasnt trying to prove there's collusion or not

in this thread, you're the one who's trying to prove there's collusion among oil companies. you're the one with the agenda here

[uls]

What's with the "Mr Collusion Sabwatan" comment? You want to make this discussion personal?

that's personal to you?

that's your agenda in this thread

a few days ago it wasnt clear what your agenda is

asking why gas stations in your area all have the same prices

yun pala you already concluded na may sabwatan ang mga oil companies

dinahan dahan mo pa with a multi-post discussion

sana dinerecho mo nalang sa isang post that that's your view

well, no surprise

electric-car advocate, environmentalist, oil-company hater

typical

[safeorigin]

you posted an article where the writer pointed out that new players are buying fuel from local suppliers. parang para sa writer di pwede ganun. parang he's saying dapat lahat ng new players nag i-import ng sariling supply

would have been a very costly transition from Caltex considering that Ramon, Isabela is a very small town

in this thread, you're the one who's trying to prove there's collusion among oil companies. you're the one with the agenda here

next thing we'll know...

there's a "cartel" in wheat, etc. all of a sudden

[anonemus]

basahin nyo na lang kase 'to kaysa mag-away-away kayo, what's happening right now is speculation. people like *uls and *tidus like this coz it somehow disturbs the financial markets

http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-s...-gas-price.htm

admitted na nga yun 2008 eh.


the reason why oil is being speculated today, kasi walang cashflow ngaun, nobody is buying/purchasing/spending. so the investors with so many money babalek ulet dyan sa oil speculation

i don't really follow that gulo in the Mid East unless it's convenient timing as escape goat.

now instead of feeling bad or blaming these greedy people, tignan nyo muna ang buhay nyo, if you spend too much or you have high overhead, then talagang apektado ka nyan. 2008 is a lesson in itself, if you continued your ways, paktay ka na talaga ngaun coz after the speculation, we'll be expecting P200 two piece chicken meal and P1000 per head fine dining dinner experience ...


nakakatawa talaga ang Pilipinas eh, we have so much gas guzzling SUVs and Vans here for just a group of island nation while the Europeans who are located in a continent but are wise and humble enough to drive mini-diesel cars. add the disease that is the PUV and wala na ubos na pera mo sa daily energy requirement pa lang


--

re: speculators: it can be the cartels themselves masquerading as speculators.

makes perfect sense, hondaboot. the link, insights and tips are very helpful.

only people who believe in "collusion" and "cartel" and "sabwatan" bring that up when fuel prices rise

leftists, PUJ organizations, populist politicians, some newspaper columnists, conspiracy theorists, environmentalists

you conveniently covered a majority of the population with that broad statement.

to explain further what i said earlier (kasi parang di mo na gets): a problem becomes an issue when people talk about it. lalo na sa tin Pinoy who are known for being ningas cogon. a few weeks ago ang issue military corruption. ngayon naman oil price hike. pero nawala na ba yung military corruption?

OPEC used to have strong influence on oil price decades ago

but since large oil reserves in the North Sea, Canada, Gulf of Mexico, Alaska have been discovered and developed, OPEC's influence on oil price has diminished

and Russia (the world's biggest oil producer) is not an OPEC member

OPEC is no longer as influential as they used to be

calling OPEC a cartel is so 1970s

So why are known capitalists establishments still calling OPEC a cartel?

Financial Times:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2cce91d0-b...#axzz1GDKrVbAa

CNN:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS...0th/index.html

Reuters:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...7270NS20110308

Wall Street Journal:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...280934306.html

Take note: hindi ito mga leftists, PUJ organizations, populist politicians, some newspaper columnists, conspiracy theorists, environmentalists

[anonemus]

they are the biggest players in the field

they're the fittest

it's natural that they dominate the petroleum business in the country

who do you expect to dominate the petroleum business in the country? Seaoil? Phoenix?

You didn't answer the question. Are the Big 3 an oligopoly or not?

Bakit parang takot ka sa term when it's simply an economic word?

RE: anonemus' reply to safeorigin's post:

in this thread, you're the one who's trying to prove there's collusion among oil companies. you're the one with the agenda here

Yup, I have an agenda and that is to learn how come in my city Big and small players sell at the same price. If you remember your Logic class, the way to get the correct answer is to have the right question.

that's personal to you?

that's your agenda in this thread

a few days ago it wasnt clear what your agenda is

asking why gas stations in your area all have the same prices

yun pala you already concluded na may sabwatan ang mga oil companies

dinahan dahan mo pa with a multi-post discussion

sana dinerecho mo nalang sa isang post that that's your view

well, no surprise

electric-car advocate, environmentalist, oil-company hater

typical

I haven't concluded anything yet. If I did, I wouldn't be wasting my time asking you. I have an assumption in mind that there might be collusion and I'm asking around if this assumption is correct or not. Surprisingly, what helped a lot are the posts of digitalron, safeorigin's uncle anecdote and hondaboot's link.

Yup, I'm an electric-car advocate, environmentalist, but I don't hate anything.

What I don't like is voracious greed, selfishness, ignorance and bias -- be it from a Fiesta-driving individual, company or country.

next thing we'll know...

there's a "cartel" in wheat, etc. all of a sudden

Walang cartel sa wheat kasi we dont consume much wheat. Pero kung may rice and corn cartel ba sa Pinas? You might want to open another thread...

[uls]

a lot of people just don't understand how the world works

people can't accept the world runs on greed and self interest

instead of figuring out how to thrive in the system, they go around complaining

so what if there's an oligopoly? so what if there's a cartel?

what's your problem? coz you think they're making too much money off you?

why not figure out a way to make money off other people to even things out?

coz you can't? coz you're not shrewd or cunning enough to make money off other people?

so you go around complaining nalang that there's something wrong with how the world works

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A"]YouTube - Milton Friedman - Greed[/ame]

[uls]

basahin nyo na lang kase 'to kaysa mag-away-away kayo, what's happening right now is speculation. people like *uls and *tidus like this coz it somehow disturbs the financial markets

http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-s...-gas-price.htm

admitted na nga yun 2008 eh.


the reason why oil is being speculated today, kasi walang cashflow ngaun, nobody is buying/purchasing/spending. so the investors with so many money babalek ulet dyan sa oil speculation

i don't really follow that gulo in the Mid East unless it's convenient timing as escape goat.

now instead of feeling bad or blaming these greedy people, tignan nyo muna ang buhay nyo, if you spend too much or you have high overhead, then talagang apektado ka nyan. 2008 is a lesson in itself, if you continued your ways, paktay ka na talaga ngaun coz after the speculation, we'll be expecting P200 two piece chicken meal and P1000 per head fine dining dinner experience ...


nakakatawa talaga ang Pilipinas eh, we have so much gas guzzling SUVs and Vans here for just a group of island nation while the Europeans who are located in a continent but are wise and humble enough to drive mini-diesel cars. add the disease that is the PUV and wala na ubos na pera mo sa daily energy requirement pa lang


--

re: speculators: it can be the cartels themselves masquerading as speculators.

hey thanks for the link (not for me but for other people)

ayaw kasi maniwala yung iba dyan sa explanation ko

kelangan nila basahin sa ibang source

sana naintindihan na nila RE speculators

puro oil companies lang kasi alam nila kaya oil companies lang alam nila tirahin

cartel, collusion, sabwtatan, whatever

di sila aware sa commodities market. di sila aware how much influence speculators have on oil prices

ignorance

What I don't like is voracious greed, selfishness, ignorance and bias -- be it from a Fiesta-driving individual, company or country.

[speed unlimited]

Hindi na siguro mapipigilan pagtaas ng gasolina at apektado lahat pati presyo ng pagkain.

[uls]

Hindi na siguro mapipigilan pagtaas ng gasolina at apektado lahat pati presyo ng pagkain.

actually mas nauna ang pagkain

last year palang pataas na ang presyo ng mga agricultural commodities

doon nag umpisa ang kaguluhan sa Tunisia -- mga protesta laban sa mataas na presyo ng pagkain

[dalandan75]

:bokmal: mga sir. . . I got this text na Seaoil has pricelock promo daw.

Nakita ko din sa kabilang thread na may pricelock sila pero wala reply dun. .

eto link ni sir Igan: http://www.gmanews.tv/story/214779/s...at-p52-a-liter

ask ko lang sana kung may alam kayo dito. eto ata sagot ng seaoil sa "oil price increase". may nakasubok na ba sa inyo nito?

thanks po.

[anonemus]

ayaw kasi maniwala yung iba dyan sa explanation ko

kelangan nila basahin sa ibang source

sana naintindihan na nila RE speculators

puro oil companies lang kasi alam nila kaya oil companies lang alam nila tirahin

cartel, collusion, sabwtatan, whatever

di sila aware sa commodities market. di sila aware how much influence speculators have on oil prices

ignorance

the problem with the way you argue is you don't back it up with evidence. puro opinion.

Like what you said here:

OIL COMPANIES ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR SKYROCKETTING CRUDE OIL PRICES

But from the the link that hondaboot gave:

http://money.howstuffworks.com/oil-s...gas-price2.htm

[SIZE=3]Also in 2000, a consortium of oil companies and financial institutions created the Intercontinental Exchange (ICE)[/SIZE] in London to trade European oil futures, although the group was headquartered in Atlanta. Since the exchange was in Europe, the CFTC's reach didn't extend to it.



The CFTC gave up more regulatory power in early 2006 when it allowed the Intercontinental Exchange to install terminals in the United States [source: Engdahl]. Up to that point, only OTC speculators could trade outside of CFTC oversight.



But once the commission allowed U.S. futures to be traded on ICE, rather than only on NYMEX, the CFTC lost its ability to regulate even formal exchanges. Once traded on ICE, an American futures derivative fell out of the jurisdiction of the CFTC. The convergence of the Enron loophole and the establishment of ICE meant the CFTC could no longer accurately police speculators who sought to drive up energy prices through futures speculation.

What it means? SABWATAN ng oil companies and speculators.

what's your problem? coz you think they're making too much money off you?

why not figure out a way to make money off other people to even things out?

coz you can't? coz you're not shrewd or cunning enough to make money off other people?

Coz its exactly the survival-of-the-fittest, money-is-everything mentality that produces people like these.








I'm done arguing with you.

[Monseratto]

Now back for a regular reality check...

Oil dips below US$ 100... Day of Rage goes PFFFTT.

Oil Plunges as Japan's Refiners Shut Plants After Earthquake
By Grant Smith - Mar 11, 2011 9:23 PM GMT+0800

Oil fell below $100 a barrel in New York for the first time in more than a week after Japan’s strongest earthquake in at least a century forced refiners to shut processing plants.

U.S. crude futures were headed for their first weekly decline in a month following the temblor in the world’s third- largest oil user. A fire at Cosmo Oil Co.’s refinery in Chiba, outside Tokyo, is spreading, a Fire Department spokesman said. JX Nippon Oil & Energy Corp. closed refineries in Sendai, Kashima and Negishi. In London, Brent crude was set for its first weekly decline in seven.

“The earthquake is having a psychological impact on the market in triggering a rise in risk aversion,” said Carsten Fritsch, an analyst at Commerzbank AG in Frankfurt. “The effect is also physical, in that oil demand from Japan could temporarily be lower.”

Crude for April delivery tumbled as much as $3.69, or 3.6 percent, to $99.01 a barrel in electronic trading on the New York Mercantile Exchange. It was at $100.38 at 1:02 p.m. London time. Prices this week are down 3.9 percent, the first weekly drop in a month.

Brent oil for April settlement on the London-based ICE Futures Europe exchange dropped as much as $3.18, or 2.8 percent, to $112.25 a barrel. It was trading at $113.19 at 1:01 p.m. local time. The contract has lost 2.4 percent this week.

‘Day of Rage’
Anti-government demonstrators in Saudi Arabia, OPEC’s largest producer, are advocating a “Day of Rage” today, and police in anti-riot vehicles patrolled the capital, Riyadh. In the kingdom’s Eastern Province, home to many of its minority Shiite Muslims, three people were injured yesterday when security forces broke up a protest in the city of Qatif, Major General Mansour al-Turki, an Interior Ministry spokesman, said.

“There is a risk, yes. Is it big? I don’t think so,” Christophe de Margerie, chief executive officer of Total SA, said at a press conference in Paris today. “The world has understood that it’s not in anyone’s interest that the Middle East flares up.”

Crude exports from Libya, where oil facilities have been targeted in a civil war, are “well below” 500,000 barrels a day, according to the International Energy Agency. That represents roughly a third of the oil the North African nation produced on average in January and February, data compiled by Bloomberg show. Shipments may have dropped to as little as 300,000 barrels a day, Al Arabiya television reported, citing Shokri Ghanem, chairman of Libya’s state-run National Oil Corp.

[tidus1203]

a lot of people just don't understand how the world works

people can't accept the world runs on greed and self interest

instead of figuring out how to thrive in the system, they go around complaining

so what if there's an oligopoly? so what if there's a cartel?

what's your problem? coz you think they're making too much money off you?

why not figure out a way to make money off other people to even things out?

coz you can't? coz you're not shrewd or cunning enough to make money off other people?

so you go around complaining nalang that there's something wrong with how the world works

YouTube - Milton Friedman - Greed

BINGO! Ewan ko ba some of my classmates back in college are also like that. Complain and whine! Ako I just focus on getting the best of the system...

[uls]

since protests began in Egypt in Feb, global oil markets had a lot of bullish activity

anybody who follows the markets would be familiar with these: USO, BNO, USL, OIL

those who don't know what those are, google oil ETFs



[IMG][/IMG]





so what's my point?

those are just some players in the oil futures market

they're funds. HUGE FUNDS. they buy and sell oil futures. they're not commercial users. they don't take delivery of oil. those are just 4 of many oil ETFs

they're so big that when they buy, they can drive oil prices higher

and when they sell, they can send oil prices falling

they are NOT oil companies. they're bigger than oil companies

whose money are in those funds? investors. our money

all that cartel collusion talk is repetitive and boring

the new power players in the oil market are funds

people who tell you oil prices are dictated by oil companies or OPEC are stuck in the last century

[padone]

a lot of people just don't understand how the world works

people can't accept the world runs on greed and self interest

instead of figuring out how to thrive in the system, they go around complaining

so what if there's an oligopoly? so what if there's a cartel?

what's your problem? coz you think they're making too much money off you?

why not figure out a way to make money off other people to even things out?

coz you can't? coz you're not shrewd or cunning enough to make money off other people?

so you go around complaining nalang that there's something wrong with how the world works

YouTube - Milton Friedman - Greed

shrewd in becoming greed and selfish.

[uls]

shrewd in becoming greed and selfish.

be enlightened

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWsx1X8PV_A"]YouTube - Milton Friedman - Greed[/ame]