diesel tuning

[Ron Dennis]

hi guys...i'm a newbie in this site.....i just bought a new mitsu strada gls m/t and among the available pick ups out there, i think i made the best choice....
ride is superb, high speed handling is amazing, and there is ample acceleration from the 2.5 Common Rail DiD engine.

I'm a big petrol head and know something about tuning/modifying gasoline engines, but i'm quite new with diesel especially crdi engines. are there available bolt on parts for crdi's in our market ryt now? how about ecu/chip upgrades?

tnks very much! kudos for the very well sorted out site!!!!

[hitomi]

ecu tuning is available - in the US - dunno about its availability here. its something that plugs into your computer box and allows you to modify the performance. diesel tuning has a long way to go.

[Ron Dennis]

i'v been reading some stuff in the internet....found out that Autoplus is already doing diesel mods and tuning....problem is, its quite expensive...

here's a sample:
http://www.auto-plus.com/lc80.html

hope i can find a cheaper alternative. I'm already thinking of upgrading to a less restricting air filter and exhaust system.

Is ERL doing some diesel tuning of their own?

[ferdi]

modern diesels are the way to go for performance with economy. there are some basic things you can tweak but the biggest bang for the buck for me was remapping. a simple tweaking on injection timing and duration will yield very dramatic results (20+ hp, 50+ nm of torque).
I used to do full rebuilds of gas engines i.e p&p, big valves w/tri-angle grinds, high lift & overlap camshafts, stroker cranks, lightened flywheels, double diaphragm clutches, headers w/freeflow exhaust, cd ignitions, twin side draft carbs, etc. and get 30 to 50+hp and a very narrow torque band. it would idle so rough and would not idle below 1200rpm.
diesels you can easily get 20 to 30% more power and torque without altering driveability and depending on your commute, might even increase your economy. there are other tweaks you may do like add an intake intercooler (or if you already have one, upgrade to a larger capacity), you may play around with your boost, upgrade to larger turbos, increase fuel injection pressure, etc. these will not give as dramatic an increase as a remap.
re-mapping may be accomplished via a reprogramming of your existing cpu, changing your "chip", or installing a piggy-back chip. a lot of options out there.... you will be happy with your diesel

and you will not need to rev so high to squeeze power out of your diesels.

[Ron Dennis]

modern diesels are the way to go for performance with economy. there are some basic things you can tweak but the biggest bang for the buck for me was remapping. a simple tweaking on injection timing and duration will yield very dramatic results (20+ hp, 50+ nm of torque).
I used to do full rebuilds of gas engines i.e p&p, big valves w/tri-angle grinds, high lift & overlap camshafts, stroker cranks, lightened flywheels, double diaphragm clutches, headers w/freeflow exhaust, cd ignitions, twin side draft carbs, etc. and get 30 to 50+hp and a very narrow torque band. it would idle so rough and would not idle below 1200rpm.
diesels you can easily get 20 to 30% more power and torque without altering driveability and depending on your commute, might even increase your economy. there are other tweaks you may do like add an intake intercooler (or if you already have one, upgrade to a larger capacity), you may play around with your boost, upgrade to larger turbos, increase fuel injection pressure, etc. these will not give as dramatic an increase as a remap.
re-mapping may be accomplished via a reprogramming of your existing cpu, changing your "chip", or installing a piggy-back chip. a lot of options out there.... you will be happy with your diesel

and you will not need to rev so high to squeeze power out of your diesels.

Thanks Ferdi!!! I think remmaping/reprogramming is the way to go for me .....i just need a couple more horses and few more lb-ft of torque and i'm satisfied.....been contemplating on doing a chip upgrade ever since i bought my pick up...

[ferdi]

Yes, one-time cost of a remap might throw you back several ten thousands but if you compute on Peso per hp, it will be much cheaper than putting in CAI, freeflow exhaust, intercoolers and larger turbos.
CAI ~0-5 hp PHP 10-20k
exhaust ~0-5hp PHP 5 - 70k
intercoolers ~5-10hp PHP 20 - 40k
larger turbos ~20-30hp PHP 40 - 120k
re-map ~20-30hp PHP 50 - 75k

I have gone the route of piggyback "chips so I keep my stock configuration whenever I go for service or emission testing. I have not done any dyno testing but there is a marked difference in performance (you actually feel it). Have had diesel cars since 5 - 6 years ago and no problems in any of them. Will do some actual benchmarking sessions once I save up for dyno runs. With piggyback, it is easy to do a before and after comparison.

[Ron Dennis]

whoa!...didn't know a one time remmap would cost that much....but ur correct, its peso:hp ratio is indeed worth it...

an APEXi piggyback ECU i think would cost me around 40-50K (correct me if i'm wrong)....would the gains be as significant as that of a one time remap?

but ur correct, the advantages are there when u do wanna get back at ur default settings...Thanks bro!

[ferdi]

The thing to consider with remaps is not the device but who is making the new map. The new map can control a lot of stuff like injection timing, injection pressure, injection duration, boost pressure, fuel pressure, etc. You need to ensure that you will be using a "tested" map specific for your engine. These "tested" maps gives you an assurance on performance and reliability. There are several suppliers out there for these "tested" maps but you might also want to consider tunability of the piggyback to your local conditions i.e cetane rating of diesel, humudity, temperature, etc. The piggybacks I have used are all designed and tested in Belgium for European conditions and slightly altered/tuned for Manila conditions. The device used is specific to my car model and uses factory oem connectors.

Piggybacks are not as sophisticated as true cpu remaps but very good bang for the buck (plus the benefit of complete concealability either for warranty purposes, reverting to stock for emission testing or if you want your car to be a "sleeper"). I am more of the 3rd type as i do not do modifications that can be seen and heard, just felt!

Good luck and tell me which route to performance you took.

[eugene69]

where and how much did you pay for your piggyback? and may i know for which ride you have it installed .

[ferdi]

01 e46 330d and 06 pajero gen3 3.2 did

[lolo pepe]

hi guys,

paki-check ninyo ito:

www.upsolute.com

meron na silang local distributor dito for remapping CRDi engines. according to the website, the ECU tuning remap (convertible to stock with the flip of a switch) is 300 USD plus 70 USD installation.

better contact the local distributor for further info and applicability to your engines.

HTH.

[parakitoJDM]

[QUOTE=ferdi;775922]intercoolers ~5-10hp PHP 20 - 40k
QUOTE]

hello, i have a 2.4L TD needing an inter-cooler. where can i have one installed (reliably and reasonably priced) of course.... thanks in advance.

[rion]

if you are on a super tight budget and your Vehicle is not brand new. then you can do it yourself...

buy a surplus intercooler...

the only hard thing doing this by yourself is finding the right hose curves. since you can't bend these hoses because it affects pressure...

as long as you know the intercooler will fit. mounting it shoudn't be much problem. just look for a welding guru outhere... (just prioritize the hose position first before welding it with brackets and screws...)

if the intercooler stock fan is taking much space, remove it and replace it with a thin fan to mount in intercooler and connect it in the electrical line where it will turn on before ignition...

surplus intercooler without fan= 1500-2000
thinest fan= 800-1200
Hose=150-500 (or better ask the spare hose from the intercooler)

total cost more or less 3k + free fun and headaches experience...

and no guarantee it will maintain boost response or cause more Lags instead...

[ferdi]

EQ,
Remaps are superior to piggyback but you need to also think about reliability and performance. Piggybacks with TUV ratings are very reliable and perfom well. Piggybacks also will give you more concealability which is a plus for warranty claims and emission testing. For remaps, you will have to rely on the technical knowhow of the one doing the remap. Is he going to do a rolling road test (or dyno run)? Will he warranty his remap? You need to check exhaust gas temperatures with any modification in fueling for diesels. Is this parameter being monitored by the one doing the remap? Is he altering boost pressures? If yes, is he monitoring this? Also, if the dealer uploads any upgrades (usually during regular maintenance), this will erase your remap.
My 2 cents worth ... if you are after squeezing out the maximum performance from your engine (or have a highly modified engine), go with a remap. If you just want 20-30% gains with reliability and concealability, go piggyback. Note too that fuel quality and humidity, etc. have less significance for diesel engines as compared to gasoline engines. They affect performance but not as much as in gasoline engines.

[oknamlarry]

I am very much interested to know more about this piggyback and remapping of diesel engines. Please share/post in this forum the shop/s, location and contact numbers, that can handle them.

[parakitoJDM]

if you are on a super tight budget and your Vehicle is not brand new. then you can do it yourself...

buy a surplus intercooler...

the only hard thing doing this by yourself is finding the right hose curves. since you can't bend these hoses because it affects pressure...

as long as you know the intercooler will fit. mounting it shoudn't be much problem. just look for a welding guru outhere... (just prioritize the hose position first before welding it with brackets and screws...)

if the intercooler stock fan is taking much space, remove it and replace it with a thin fan to mount in intercooler and connect it in the electrical line where it will turn on before ignition...

surplus intercooler without fan= 1500-2000
thinest fan= 800-1200
Hose=150-500 (or better ask the spare hose from the intercooler)

total cost more or less 3k + free fun and headaches experience...

and no guarantee it will maintain boost response or cause more Lags instead...

Rion thanks for the advice, but i have more questions....
- where is a good place to find surplus intercooler?
- i know Pajero and Starex ones are the ones with FAN.
* is the FAN activated all the time or only during when there's Boost ?
* where to connect the Signal to activate FAN? [harder option]
* if i leave the FAN always on, won't it drain too much my electrical system?
[easy option: but have concern, as i'm also running a powered SUBWoofer]
- is it necessary to CHIP the ECU it after Installing Intercooler?

btw, my ride is a Hilux Surf with 2LTE (2.4TD)....

[Ron Dennis]

EQ,
Remaps are superior to piggyback but you need to also think about reliability and performance. Piggybacks with TUV ratings are very reliable and perfom well. Piggybacks also will give you more concealability which is a plus for warranty claims and emission testing. For remaps, you will have to rely on the technical knowhow of the one doing the remap. Is he going to do a rolling road test (or dyno run)? Will he warranty his remap? You need to check exhaust gas temperatures with any modification in fueling for diesels. Is this parameter being monitored by the one doing the remap? Is he altering boost pressures? If yes, is he monitoring this? Also, if the dealer uploads any upgrades (usually during regular maintenance), this will erase your remap.
My 2 cents worth ... if you are after squeezing out the maximum performance from your engine (or have a highly modified engine), go with a remap. If you just want 20-30% gains with reliability and concealability, go piggyback. Note too that fuel quality and humidity, etc. have less significance for diesel engines as compared to gasoline engines. They affect performance but not as much as in gasoline engines.

Thanks for all the inputs fellas! I do have a couple more questions though...
where can i buy one and what brand should i choose? Im only familiar with APEXi. is the piggyback ecu come pre-programmed for my vehicle type? so, is just plug and play then? waht sort of improvement are we looking for here (if a dyno isn't available)? can you really feel a significant grunt thruout the rev range? how about fuel economy? Thanks guys!

[ferdi]

just for benchmarking but it is not accurate ... readings taken (from OBC)over a period of time (several full tanks).
stock w/ tuningbox
stop & go driving 11.5l/100km (8.7km/l) 14l/100km (7.1km/l)
mixed city & highway 10.5l/100km (9.5km/l) 12.4l/100km (8km/l)
pure highway 8.5l/100km ( 11.7km/l) 7.5l/100km (13.3km/l)

as you can see in city driving, consumption went up (especially during long periods of idling in traffic) but once you reach the highways economy increases (especially if you do not floor it often). this is is for a 3.0l commonrail turbo diesel car (not SUV or 4x4) with approx 220hp and 450nm torque. The fun factor happens at midrange and overtaking. There is a wall of torque from 2000 - 4000rpm.

[rion]

Rion thanks for the advice, but i have more questions....

- where is a good place to find surplus intercooler?
try your nearest surplus spare shops nalang. a Pajero Intercooler w/fan most likely costs 3k. w/o fan 1500-2k

- i know Pajero and Starex ones are the ones with FAN.
if you are using the Pajero Intercooler, don't use the fan or do not include buying the fan. the fan is small and it takes much vertical space.

* is the FAN activated all the time or only during when there's Boost?
our style is activated all the time. stock intercoolers are triggered by sensors. not necessarily during boost... they could still be very hot after boosting...

most surplus Intercoolers has electric terminals, I will ask here what's it's purpose. maybe we could make use out of it...

* where to connect the Signal to activate FAN? [harder option]
for now, it's connected right before ignition switch (along with the heater line),most likely black/yellow wire in the steering...

* if i leave the FAN always on, won't it drain too much my electrical system?
the fan will only run on turned on engine, I don't think it will drain too much. our aircon condensers fan has 3... (2main,1secondary)

[easy option: but have concern, as i'm also running a powered SUBWoofer]
you can also add a manual switch after the ignition switch line if you want. in my case, we had a spare "idle up" switch with light indicator from another same vehicle. I use it to switch on/off the intercooler fan manualy.

- is it necessary to CHIP the ECU it after Installing Intercooler?
I don't know, never tried one... but with the right installation. I'm sure ECU is not necessary... but could be more benificial...

btw, my ride is a Hilux Surf with 2LTE (2.4TD)....
is that a (JDM) Japan surplus? that's good then, you don't have much to worry experimenting it.

if you have a budget, get a wastegate control system and a boost gauge installed. so you can increase your pressure to compensate the added intercooler, and monitor it (recommended max psi for your 2LTE) so it won't overboost(damages turbo and engine)

like I said before, no guarantees... if your installation is a failure, you can go to experts. but atleast the cost you made was minimal...

[parakitoJDM]

Rion, thanks for all your advice.... yes its a Subic Surf....if that;s what u mean by Surplus.....