Hybrid Cars

[confusedfish]

Hi Everyone,

I hope to get some insights.. but I wonder how come there is not much hybrid cars here in the Philippines? Politics? Agreements with the Big 3? Unit cost?

I have people I know who are in Malaysia, and there hybrid cars are every rampant, not only are they electric and gasoline operated, but I was also told they have a feature where the engine goes idle whenever in long stops like stopping for a traffic light or roadside parking / waiting. In a liquid fuel and traffic jam country such as ours, hybrid cars are the answer to fuel efficiency and pollution.

I hope to see hybrid cars in the coming years here in our country.

[userfriendly]

I think its a combination of politics, prices and attitude. A quick look at Toyota Prius prices shows that the cheapest Prius C is selling at 1.475M. The 1.8 Prius is 2.25M. If you can buy a car at that price, you wont be worrying about fuel costs. Sticking with the Toyota line up, 1.475 can buy you the top of the line Altis or Innova, an entry level Camry a high end variant of Fortuner or Hilux. All are very good selling cars with more space and most are more luxiurious than the Prius C.

People may also be hesitant bec of the constant floods we get. Imagine how much damage a heavy flood will wreck on a Prius. Battery replacement cost may also be a factor.

In my opinion, for hybrid cars to sell, govt must subsidize the cost or at least lower the taxes on the cars to make them more economical.

[confusedfish]

Good point there. I honestly believe that hybrid cars will be here in our country. It will just be a matter of time. But again, I am hoping that such cars will be here sooner. I mean, if I would be buying a new car in the next 3 years at the price of at least 1.2M, I hope to spend it for a hybrid car, because I just wonder how expensive fuel costs will be by that time.

I totally agree in your opinion. In general, cars are sold more expensively here in the Philippines, and primarily due to tax. But if tax subsidy by the government is the solution to make hybrid cars sold here, the long wait is not over; that is yet a long story.

[confusedfish]

Is there anyone here who owns a hybrid car (Prius maybe) or knows someone? Please share your experience so we can "feel" your advantage.

[dct]

may proposal na law na exempted (or babaan) ang tax sa hybrid for around 8 years ata? not sure sa years. hindi pa pasado e. tapos nabasa ko sabi daw ng honda pag pumasa yun, dadalhin ang insight at cr-z dito. maybe for other brands also

when you say hybrid, it's powered with electricity right?

[niky]

There is only one answer, really. Price.

The cheapest hybrid, the Prius C, is 1.475m for a car that's smaller than a Jazz and slightlymix bigger than a Yaris.

The best-selling hybrid in the US, the standard Prius, costs 2.2m, for a car the size of an Elantra or a Cruze... one that gets similar economy to a diesel sedan in mixed traffic.

A Nissan Leaf or a Mitsubishi iMIEV all-electric would cost something like 2.5 - 3m here. The Leaf is small. Also around Jazz size. The iMIEV is smaller than a Picanto on the inside.

Now, if you buy a 1.3 MT Jazz instead and spend the rest of that money on gas, you'll have 725,000 pesos worth of fuel. 13, 679 liters or so.

With that 13,679 liters, you can go around 136k kms.

No big deal, you say... so after 136,000 kilometers, you break even, right?

Wrong. After 136,000 kilometers, you will have spent 426k pesos on gasoline with the Prius C. (this is being generous and assuming the Prius will do 17 km/l where the Jazz will do 10. In my testing of the full-sized Prius, it got 17 km/l in mixed traffic where I'd expect to get 12 in a Jazz. So 17 versus 10 for the smaller Prius is reasonable. The smaller Prius can probably hit 20 in city driving, but in such conditions, the Jazz would hit 12+. Let's just peg it at 10-17 for now.

Break even given this difference in fuel consumption will be at around 330,000 kilometers, when you've spent about 1.7 million pesos on gasoline for the Jazz and 1 million pesos in gasoline for the Prius. This is ignoring external costs like maintenance (the Prius will be slightly less expensive in terms of oil changes, the Jazz will be less expensive in terms of tire use, all things being equal, we are assuming you will hit 330,000 kilometers before ten years are up and the battery pack loses most of its potency)... insurance (twice as high for the hybrid, based on purchase price), depreciation (higher for the more expensive car... probably worth an extra 200-300k peso hit after ten years) and other externalities.

Hmm... let's calculate those.

Take insurance and resale into account and break-even pay-off will probably be beyond the useable life of the car. even giving the hybrid a huge advantage in resale (assuming, again, the battery pack doesn't go kerplutz), pegging it at around 600-700k after ten years (assuming 10% dep. first year, diminishing by 1.5% per year) and 300,000 kilometers versus 200k only for the Jazz after the same (assuming 10% dep, diminishing by just 0.75% per year to reflect higher depreciation for non hybrid), you're still out around 1.1 m in insurance and depreciation over ten years versus just 700k for the Jazz.

Hell, you could give away the Jazz for free at the end, and you'd still be ahead versus the Prius owner by 200k pesos.

-

People in the US and Japan clamor for hybrids because they're rich and don't mind paying extra for an expensive, cramped car that gets good gas mileage. Here in the Philippines, we have micro-cars that can match hybrids for city efficiency (Eon, Alto, Celerio/Picanto/Spark 1.0 MTs) and nearly match them for highway efficiency (20-25 km/l in gentle highway driving), all while costing a third of the price of the cheapest hybrids.

And if you want bigger, we've got diesels... which can also match hybrids in certain drive cycles. Buy a secondhand Accent taxi and you will get the same economy and space as a Prius C at a helluva discount.

[ghosthunter]

may proposal na law na exempted (or babaan) ang tax sa hybrid for around 8 years ata? not sure sa years. hindi pa pasado e. tapos nabasa ko sabi daw ng honda pag pumasa yun, dadalhin ang insight at cr-z dito. maybe for other brands also

when you say hybrid, it's powered with electricity right?

Wrong. It's powered by two on-board sources of energy, usually battery and a gas or diesel engine.

If it's only powered by electricity, it will be an electric car.

[ghosthunter]

Is there anyone here who owns a hybrid car (Prius maybe) or knows someone? Please share your experience so we can "feel" your advantage.

Niky and I have test driven the previous model Toyota Prius. Underwhelmingly, it drives like an ordinary car. And charging issues with the test drive hinted at potential temperature related issues with the batteries (tropical climate).

[dct]

Wrong. It's powered by two on-board sources of energy, usually battery and a gas or diesel engine.

If it's only powered by electricity, it will be an electric car.

so mix of electricity and gas or diesel?

kung marami na ang maghhybrid satin, kayanin ba ng meralco ang supply? baka magrotating brownout na naman tayo nyan if ever

[ghosthunter]

so mix of electricity and gas or diesel?

kung marami na ang maghhybrid satin, kayanin ba ng meralco ang supply? baka magrotating brownout na naman tayo nyan if ever

The majority of hybrids do not charge their batteries from the electric grid. They usually get charged from the engine.

There are some "plug-in" hybrids which have a bigger battery pack for longer battery operation. These can plug-in to the electric grid to recharge their batteries but will operated fine being charged by their gas or diesel engines too.

Generally plug-in hybrids and electric cars are meant to be recharged at night when the over-all demand for power is lower and also when electric rates are cheaper too (for those with dual-rate electric meters). So generally, electric capacity isn't much of an issue, especially the low rate of acceptance for electric and hybrid cars due to either costs or range issues.