Venezuela Takes Control of Oil Fields

[wildthing]

People of Tsikot, please stay on topic and don't make this thread into a religious debate. :police:

Now this is the right thing that moderator/s should do, kudos to your action sir boybi.

back to topic.

If Chavez was not good in Venezuela, how come he have a lot of supporters and fans in his own country?

The fact that Venezuela have good natural resources, it is not a wonder that super power countries would love to try "controlling" and abusing them.... same as the Philippines way back early 1900's.

[niky]

I'm sorry, I was answering a question directed straight at me.

As my last word on this topic: I don't disbelieve God. I just don't believe in the Judaic version of God, although I think highly enough of Jesus' teachings to bemoan the fact that not all "Christians" take them to heart.

------

The Philippines isn't as lucky as Venezuela in terms of natural resources.

The popularity of a leader isn't always proportional to how good a leader they actually are. Joseph Estrada was (and is still) immensely popular. George Bush, too (although not as much now as before).

[wildthing]

If you would compare the natural resources of Venezuela and Philippines, now...Yes it is not the same.

But way back in the early 1900's it is different... Venezuela and Philippines will have very similar natural resources... probably that is why we were exploited (by foreigners) much much earlier than Venezuela.

[mazdamazda]

Now this is the right thing that moderator/s should do, kudos to your action sir boybi.

Still taking cheap shots at me huh?

LAST WARNING on that.

back to topic.

If Chavez was not good in Venezuela, how come he have a lot of supporters and fans in his own country?

The fact that Venezuela have good natural resources, it is not a wonder that super power countries would love to try "controlling" and abusing them.... same as the Philippines way back early 1900's.

Can you quantify or enumerate how "super power countries" are trying to control and abuse them? Does helping them develop their oil deposits constitute as abuse already?

[wildthing]

quoted from WIKI - "...On April 30, 2007 Chavez announced that Venezuela would be formally pulling out of the IMF and the World Bank, having paid off its debts five years ahead of schedule, saving US$8 millions in doing so. The debt was of US$3 billions in 1999..."

IMF and WB are front "organizations/banks" of "super power countries" to put third world countries under their control... first they lend them money... next they bleed them to debt that would eventually be impossible to pay-up because of high interest. I would call that an abuse.

Do I have to site other issues on the abuse of super power countries in this thread? (... I could get banned because of off-topic posts that would could be categorically flaming others or flame-baiting others...)

[mazdamazda]

On the contrary, the loans from IMF/WB helped Venezuela to kick start its oil industry years ago. He should be thanking them instead for that. :bwahaha:

IMF/WB loans are generally good. The problem is that the infrastructure or projects where these funds are being used sometimes do not generate the needed economic growth to offset the interest rates or simply it was pocketed by corrupt officials (like what the cronies of Marcos did).

IMF/WB did cancel out the loans of some of the poorest countries to note.

[wildthing]

AFAIK ... the oil industry was not started by those IMF/WB loans...they were started and funded by the private oil companies.

[Asus700]

boybi People of Tsikot, please stay on topic and don't make this thread into a religious debate.

yes sir. sorry po

[mazdamazda]

AFAIK ... the oil industry was not started by those IMF/WB loans...they were started and funded by the private oil companies.

Yes I know. Let me rephrase.

The loans were used to jump start the new liberal & oil based economy of Venezuela in the 1990s.

Some more info... the oil output of Venezuela is on a decline and rumors has it that they even had to import oil from Russia so that they can meet their contracts. What keeps them alive is the artificially inflated oil prices that was engineered by Chavez c/o the OPEC.

This is actually a cycle for Venezuela. They did this once before... cutting off ties with the IMF/WB and handing out loans to other countries before running out of steam (and money) after a decade or so.

[wildthing]

"rumors" or facts... I'll probably believe on facts rather than rumors..

[VtEC]

The good thing about Venezuela is they are not in debt anymore.No more pressure from IMF and the WB which makes life more miserable.

[wildthing]

AMEN to that... no "need to be thanking IMF/WB" for the loan... kung binayaran naman nila (Venezuela) ng FULL and all the interest yung loan na yun sa IMF/WB.

Furthermore, those loans where never incurred during the time of Hugo Chavez... it was done when there was a "more credible" president in Venezuela.

[mazdamazda]

IMF-WB loans are not just about money - but is a program to help developing countries to develop sound economic policies. While some of their suggested policies are a bitter pill for most people - including prioritization of debt repayments - they have proved to be very valuable lessons in the end.

While you maybe harping about Venezuela - you should also note the high poverty & inflation rate that is currently plaguing them. Their economy is on a rising boom thanks to the inflated oil crude price but this will halt in light of the recent nationalization of some key industries.

[wildthing]

"this will halt in light of the recent nationalization of some key industries.." is this another speculation or is it a fact? (I hope it is not another rumor).

They already have high poverty long before Hugo Chavez tenure in the office...in FACT, it was his "revolutionary" programs that are making the lives of his poor countrymen better (and not IMF/WB programs, mind you and this is not a rumor or a speculation).... the same reason why he was getting famous and have better support from his countrymen. (you just have to type HUGO CHAVEZ on Wikipedia to know this)

He might not have popular support from foreigners (ie. US) but then again, he was doing good for his countrymen (at the moment) - and that is a fact.

[mazdamazda]

"this will halt in light of the recent nationalization of some key industries.." is this another speculation or is it a fact? (I hope it is not another rumor).

That's a fact. Telecoms & steel companies was just nationalized - including media companies.

By the way, Chavez just closed down on the only other non-government controlled TV station (the oldest & biggest) and replaced it with another government owned station.

They already have high poverty long before Hugo Chavez tenure in the office...in FACT, it was his "revolutionary" programs that are making the lives of his poor countrymen better (and not IMF/WB programs, mind you and this is not a rumor or a speculation).... the same reason why he was getting famous and have better support from his countrymen. (you just have to type HUGO CHAVEZ on Wikipedia to know this)

He might not have popular support from foreigners (ie. US) but then again, he was doing good for his countrymen (at the moment) - and that is a fact.

Making it better?

Their national debts is steeply rising, poverty level is still hovering at 40+%, inflation is still not managed, etc.

He may have the people's approval for now but as I've said before, this will all come crashing down once the nationalization euphoria wears off and their oil funds dry up.

[Flagg]

"rumors" or facts... I'll probably believe on facts rather than rumors..

OT1: Hey man, don't get all heated up now... but what's your basis in saying the above quote?

BTT: IMO, we don't know the full oil story of Venezuela, so I give Chavez the benefit of the doubt... (we don't like people who worm out of contracts, but then again, there are some contracts which shouldn't be honored in the first place... for example the Bataan Nuclear Power Plant)

However, outright demagoguery like the taking over of RCTV and banks... tsk tsk. Sad, sad commie bastard, this Chavez.

IMO, comparing Venezuela with Singapore is very unfair, especially to Mr. Lee and his achievements. Has anyone ever wondered what would happen to Singapore if it's government decided to nationalize the oil, banking and mass media industries (or any other industry, for that matter)? It is something rightly unimaginable.

If one thinks about it, Singapore has less of a dictatorial and more of a corporate setup. Though less democratic than other states, it's government is run more or less according to an international standard which, in turn, promotes cooperation from the international community (which has proven to be very good economically).

This is very different from the self-serving conduct of a dictatorship, or even an oligarchy. The standard of this government's performance is what it itself sets. Unfortunately, history has shown that this is usually not in line with international standards and therefore, the government ends up on its own... sooner or later ending up in failure.

In other words, Singaporeans are treated more as the government's industrial partners as opposed to the Venezuelans who, IMO, are treated as charity cases of Mr. Chavez - this exemplified most clearly through his "one-class" rhetoric.