Not everything in the Bible is true...

[5Speed]

hmmm.... ang hahaba naman ng mga answers nyo....sumasakit yung mata ko kababasa.....

:pepsi: :popcorn:

[Monseratto]

pls. watch this video po

http://youtube.com/watch?v=fdVucvo-kDU

wow...never knew that many prolific Americans were Aetheist. Kasama pa doon si Angelina Jolie, Julianna Moore, Carl Sagan, Jack Nicholson, Gene Roddenberry and Charles Schultz to name a few.

[oldblue]

Who set the standards, then?

You didn't read enough into what I wrote. I wrote that atheists don't necessarily believe in nothing, they just don't believe in a God. That means that they can have a moral compass, whereas it is perfectly possible for pantheists to have none or for a religion to give them a skewed one.

I was using Gender as a comparison. If you can accept that there are people that are neither male nor female, can't you accept different kinds of religious and atheists, either?

that's particularly what I'm concerned about. what's this moral compassion that atheists brag that they have? laws of nature? laws of science? how can they differentiate the right from the wrong? is there such a bible for an atheist?

Bull. Like I said, don't generalize all atheists on the rantings of a few, I will stop comparing you to Bin Laden if you stop generalizing like this. And yet fundamentalists regard everyone else of different religions as Godless, yet you still include them under your umbrella, don't you?

sorry sir but i dont share my umbrella with fundamentalists and extremists. they're not religious people in my book. they're godless. why? pinangungunahan nila ang Diyos nila ...

Pan-theists don't qualify among the religious people you're assuming all religious people to be. There are many gods in a pantheon, with many different teachings. One God may teach war, killing and death, and is accepted as a true God... Mars for the Romans, Shiva and Kali (goddess of thieves and stranglers) for the Hindus. Thus, it is possible to have no moral compass, because you can follow whichever God you want, and do anything you want... just like existentialists.

at least these so-called pan-theists consider a superior being other than themselves.

If you want to find people who attack the holy books, Muslim clerics bash the Bible and Christian scholars attack the Qu'ran all the time.

like I said those who use religion to battle it out with another religion are godless people. that's like fighting against the will of 2 Gods head-on.

You're so far off course, it's not funny. Communism does not equal Atheism does not equal Libertarianism (belief in ultimate freedom/anarchy). China mandates atheism to negate the political influence of various churches. They don't even believe in freedom. Russian Communists are primarily of the Russian Orthodox (Catholic) faith, and Communism started in Russia.

Oh, and most Communists in the Philippines are Muslim.



Again, Atheism is not Libertarianism. Please, read up on political theories before you post this stuff.

if atheism is not libertarianism or not the ultimate expression of freedom, then what governs atheists? laws of nations? are they not smart enough to pinpoint that most laws and constitutions do mention the word God in it?

Read the history of the world, too, it would be educational. It is because of societies with no clear spiritual center that Christianity has survived, because it was able to convert those societies to Christianity. The Roman empire, the pagan kings of Europe... If not for Pagans... Christianity would be dead.

you know what history is all about? it's about pagans/atheists on every corner of the world turning/converting into god-fearing people.

kaya nga sobrang takang-taka ako bakit gusto pa bumalik to what our ancestors were before.

An atheistic society that's survived for thousands of years: China. The main "religion" of Classical China is Confucianism, which is a non-deitic philosophy which preaches the "Golden Rule" (do unto others...). Confucianism doesn't state that there is a God, and is considered by many as an agnostic (or... *gasp*... maybe atheistic?) philosophical movement.

now this struck me! I never realized that these so-called ancient Chinese Dynasties were atheistic in nature. raincheck muna sir dito while I read about China or ancient China. but thanks sir for mentioning this.

Andif you say that all the evil done is done by Godless people , even if they themselves think they are God-fearing, then it is hopeless to argue with you, for you've made up your mind that all God-fearing people are perfectly moral. Which is a fallacy. We're all human, to some degree, and evil can exist in even the most faithful... or didn't you notice this in the Bible?

I didnt say that sir. you're putting words in my mouth so that other readers here will crucify me . you were very quick to point out that personalities like Hitler, Napoleon went on the warpath in behalf of religion.
I just gave you my explanation of who I think and believe they were.

What I am trying to point out, is not all religions preach peace and brotherhood, or in countering aggression with peaceful resistance, like Jesus or Gandhi would have us do... For them, killing in the name of God is perfectly justifiable in the eyes of God. Read the Qu'ran or the Torah, if you don't believe me... defense of the faith can be used to justify a lot of really evil things proscribed by the faith in the first place.

yes it's expected naman that you have that understanding bec. you said before that you are agnostic - somewhere in the middle, neutral. tama ba sir? it's like the Honda Lemon thread, you're the DTI.

pero if you were a religious man, like me, and others like me, (true Muslims and Christians alike), hindi mo iisipin na inuutusan ka ng Diyos na pumatay o makipag-gyera. but of course, it's only natural for us to defend ourselves. even animals, plants and small microbes have some sort of defense mechanism. and it's very natural naman siguro. if we didnt defend, then how many days do you think Christianity will survive, since its introduction.

to other religous people here who are quick to blame faith/religion as the root cause of suffering/war/hatred in this world, I believe you should re-read the scriptures. if you cant get it, then read it again. read it until you begin to realize that it's not scriptures that are sending the wrong message, but it's you, your interpretation and your limited understanding.

You have a very narrow mindset and world-view about what constitutes and atheist and what constitutes a believer.

Not all atheists are immoral, and not all believers have the same morality as you. You are talking as if you assume all believers share Christian ethical values. They do not. That is why atrocities and wars can be conducted in the name of religion.

again I never said these sir. bakit ba pinalalabas mo sir na I'm generalizing these. if you will review my posts, never ko naman na-mention mga ito ah. but I do believe you're assuming and accussing pa. imagine I think like Bin Laden.


eto yun 2nd point ko:

"Second. Although it may seem that religion divides people and history is proof that religion caused wars and suffering between religious groups, I still believe that Godless people are the ones pulling the strings.

why? for the very reason that they have no qualms in harming/killing/destroying other people/groups to futher their own ambitions. Most religions are for the preservation of life. so therefore, by logic, anyone who counters that does not care about the teaching of that particular religion and their own God as well. and who's in the best position and the best interest to challenge their own God? Godless people.

walang naman all d'ba? I do remember saying that these people who use the name of God in vain, are Godless people, the worst of the atheists . did I generalize ba so much that I'm being accused of bigotry and discrimination?

[oldblue]

And if you say that all the evil done is done by Godless people, even if they themselves think they are God-fearing, then it is hopeless to argue with you, for you've made up your mind that all God-fearing people are perfectly moral Which is a fallacy. We're all human, to some degree, and evil can exist in even the most faithful... or didn't you notice this in the Bible?

dagdag ko lang sir, kasi I think I missed this. no sir I'm not saying that. There's no such thing as Godless people that think they are God-fearing. It cant be both ways. a Godless person who pretends that he is God-fearing in the eyes of others, or a Godless person who uses religion as a tool to further his own hidden agenda or personal ambitions, now these are what I'm talking about.

is this so hard to comprehend? A Godless person that can mingle into a society of believers, that can profess his faith in public like he is the "saint-est" of saints, that can preach convincing words about God and war like he is an annointed one. is this not possible?

God-fearing people will never do this. why? bec. from the term itself, they fear God.

[oldblue]

And, *oldblue: If we're engaging in empty conversation, you're using the name of God in vain, too...

now that's below the belt sir. but If i'm only using God to win our argument here, then you may have a point. so is that another assumption on my motives sir?

Again, this assumes that all scientists are atheists. Which is patently untrue. Einstein once said, as he was troubled and could not accept quantum physics: "God does not play dice with the Universe". He believed in an ultimate creator and cause and could not bring himself to believe that the Universe was the creation of random happenstance. Many scientists cannot believe this either.

sir sobra ka nasa sa kaka-assume ha . all scientists are atheists? basta for the record, I never said nor implied that.

Charles Darwin was a Christian. He held off publishing his work for years because he was afraid of being excommunicated, like Galileo was. His defender was an atheist, though. Sir Thomas Huxley defended Darwin's theories against the traditionalists, and protected Darwin from their ridicule.



In other words, keep an open mind.

Many Paleontologists, Archeologists and Historians are religious. Even those who produce work that seems to go against Church teachings are religious. They still do this because they recognize that dogmatic thought and belief in God aren't necessarily the same thing, and they can keep an open mind and see the world as it is.

that is only true sir if you believe that all religious people are close-minded/narrow-minded people. do you?
being open-minded is not exclusive for the agnostics and atheists alone.

[Monseratto]

next round naman...

[CtrlAltDel]

hayy... too many points of arguments. my puny brain cannot process it all, heheh. just one thing i'd wish to clarify folks,

i think one of the points of contention here is the term Godless.

according to oldblue anybody who commits acts which, at the very least, are unfair to fellow human beings are Godless. This applies to all people whether they practice religion or not. So even if you're a pastor or a priest or an atheist you become Godless when you commit these acts.

niky, city and theveed object because this definition throws them in the same league as rapists, murderers, slanderer, gossipers and what-have-you, simply by the fact that they (niky, city and theveed) are "Godless." That is to say, niky keeps an open mind about God while city and theveed altogether dismiss the mere idea.

am i right, so far?

i doubt oldblue mean malice here. and i think i get the point he wants to get across. regardless, i hear flack coming your way, oldblue. get ready, eheheh.

[oliver1013]

IMO wether its true or not as long as it inspires some people to do good things to his fellow human being, I dont see any reason for it to be an issue. Masama na if you use the bible to further your own selfish need or para lang sabihin ng tao na magaling ka or matalino ka.

[Chip]

The 2 biggest fallcies in this thread:

Godless people = Bad

Religious people = Good

[uls]

The 2 biggest fallcies in this thread:

Godless people = Bad

Religious people = Good

yep yep...

Kung good sana lahat ng religious people, the Philippines would be paradise.

[5Speed]

The 2 biggest fallcies in this thread:

Godless people = Bad

Religious people = Good

hmmmm.... eto rin ang pagkaka-intindi ko base sa mga answers na nabasa ko....

[5Speed]

yep yep...

Kung good sana lahat ng religious people, the Philippines would be paradise.

and Philippines will be heaven.... no crimes, no corrupt people, no rapists, etc...everything is in good order......

[SIZE="4"]Teka...di ba yung presidente natin ngayon eh religious and God fearing individual??[/SIZE]

Hmmmmm...........kain na lang ako ulit ng :popcorn:

[uls]

yun na nga e...

only christian country pa naman tayo this part of asia.

Napaka-relihyoso natin diba? Wednesday sa Baclaran, Black Nazarene thing sa Quiapo, patron saint here, patron saint there, Holy Mother here, Holy Mother there, Santo Nino here, Santo Nino everywhere.......

may holy month of the rosary sa October

may EDSA shrine tayo, may CBCP na napaka-influential at paki-alamero...

May Iglesia ni Cristo, may El Shaddai...

Ung mga dating movie theater ginawang simbahan ng born-again..

May friendly neighborhood dude na lalapitan ka at i-invite ka mag bible study...

We should be a country of saints.

What the hell happened?

[5Speed]

:popcorn: :pepsi:

maybe someone here can give some good answers.....

:popcorn: :pepsi:

[buraot]

puro front lang kasi ang pagiging religious ng mga pinoy, eh..


more on salita, kulang sa gawa...

[uls]

nagegets ko naman ung point ng mga religious people when they talk about atheists.

They say atheists can do bad things coz they have no religious belief to stop them.

They dont believe in God so it follows they dont fear punishment from God, they dont believe in hell or eternal damnation...

so what's to keep atheists from stealing and killing and raping and stealing ur wife?

So yun pala ang pumipigil sa mga religious people sa pag gawa ng masama?

Fear of God?

Fear of punishment from God is THE ONLY THING that's stopping religious people from doing bad things?

That's freakin scary.

What if they lose their faith? What if a large number of religious people lose their faith?

[5Speed]

nagegets ko naman ung point ng mga religious people when they talk about atheists.

They say atheists can do bad things coz they have no religious belief to stop them. They dont believe in God so it follows they dont fear punishment from God, they dont believe in hell... so what's to keep atheists from stealing and killing and raping and having orgies?

So yun pala ang pumipigil sa mga religious people sa pag gawa ng masama?

Fear of God... fear of punishment from God is the only thing thats stopping religious people from doing bad things?

That's scary. What if they lose their faith? What if a large number of religious people lose their faith?

HMMMM.... I can feel that you will have some 'goooooood' reply on your post....hehehehe

'this is getting better.... time to pop some more :popcorn:

[oldblue]

hayy... too many points of arguments. my puny brain cannot process it all, heheh. just one thing i'd wish to clarify folks,

i think one of the points of contention here is the term Godless.

according to oldblue anybody who commits acts which, at the very least, are unfair to fellow human beings are Godless. This applies to all people whether they practice religion or not. So even if you're a pastor or a priest or an atheist you become Godless when you commit these acts.

niky, city and theveed object because this definition throws them in the same league as rapists, murderers, slanderer, gossipers and what-have-you, simply by the fact that they (niky, city and theveed) are "Godless." That is to say, niky keeps an open mind about God while city and theveed altogether dismiss the mere idea.

am i right, so far?

i doubt oldblue mean malice here. and i think i get the point he wants to get across. regardless, i hear flack coming your way, oldblue. get ready, eheheh.

thank you po. yes sir you're right.

[oldblue]

nagegets ko naman ung point ng mga religious people when they talk about atheists.

They say atheists can do bad things coz they have no religious belief to stop them.

They dont believe in God so it follows they dont fear punishment from God, they dont believe in hell or eternal damnation...

so what's to keep atheists from stealing and killing and raping and stealing ur wife?

So yun pala ang pumipigil sa mga religious people sa pag gawa ng masama?

Fear of God?

Fear of punishment from God is THE ONLY THING that's stopping religious people from doing bad things?

That's freakin scary.

What if they lose their faith? What if a large number of religious people lose their faith?

years ago, I watched this documentary about Project Bluebook. I think a lot of you are familiar with this naman, lalo na yun mahilig sa mga aliens, UFO's, green men etc etc ...

The goal of Project Bluebook was to collect data and to investigate the UFO Phenomenon that was happening in the late 40's and the 50's. The UFO craze, at that time, was so great that UFO sightings, "abductions" and encounters were being reported all over the United States. Decades after, it was confirmed that the same disturbance was happening in the Soviet Union, although not so much publicized. we all know naman how secretive the Russians were in those days. Later on, it was confirmed that it was a worldwide phenomenon after all bec. sightings were being reported all over the globe! (wala kasi internet noon eh even satcoms, microwaves, inter-continental fibre optics etc etc. communications systems were primitive compared to our time)

now what I'm getting at here, that God, our God is an alien? no certainly not!

The primary concern that time was that, what if Project Bluebook confirms the phenomenon. That there are aliens flying around, abducting farmers, doctors, engineers, politicans alike, zapping poorly equipped WWII planes with their ray guns etc ...

what do you think will happen to the world? or specifically, what do you think will happen to the God-fearing people of society? (which comprise 90% na siguro ng world's population including all religions)

will they lose their faith in a supreme being and religion or will they embrace the idea more? which is which kaya? an anti-govt speaker in the documentary accused the govt. of covering up the UFO phenomenon. why? bec. the US govt. at that time feared that their world will come to a halt. a lot of people will skip work, a lot of people will re-evaluate each of their own religion/spirituality, a lot of people will get confused and in time, anarchy, riots, indifference and chaos will soon come afterwards.

sino ba naman ang hindi magagalit, malilito, masisiraan ng ulo. they were all led to believe that there was a supreme being watching over us since earth day 1, tapos here came another group of being, superior in many ways than them. their society would collapse, not bec. of advance firepower of the visitors , but bec. they will implode.

although that alibi of the govt. didnt make sense to the UFO enthusiast aka anti- US govt. speaker, It made sense to me.


so sir *uls, youre asking what will happen if a large number of people lose their faith? the scenario above is pretty much likely to happen to all of us. and do you think atheists within the society (or being an atheist), will be spared if this happens? I think not.

[uls]

Sir Oldblue, its not that i'm an atheist and i know nobody will be spared if society collapses.

Its just scary to think that the only thing holding back religious people from becoming mass murderers is their fear of punishment from God. Though there are believers who do become mass murderers coz they think God told them to kill.

Its the REWARD-PUNISNMENT concept that keeps people in their faith. A promise of everlasting happiness (plus 72 virgins if ur Islamic) in heaven or everlasting torment in hell...

What if there is no reward for being good, and no punishment for being bad... no heaven, no hell... would people remain faithful to their God? or would people abandon their faith and go crazy?

If people obey God coz they are scared to death of being barbequed forever, then people don't love God. They just fear Him.

If people obey God coz they wana live forever in Disneyland-in-the-clouds, then they dont love God. They just want happy comfort and free board&lodging forever.

Take away reward and punishment and the religious people will rethink their faith.