Not everything in the Bible is true...

[nat2x]

lahat un nasa faith mo., not just believing but doing what God had been doing in your life., check this article..

Rumors of Another World
by Philip Yancey

reviewed by Zeus Martinez


Not everybody believes in God. Some people deny His existence while others continually live between the borders of belief and unbelief. For others, they cannot reconcile a God of love and the presence of perversions, famine and murder in this world. In their hearts, people ask, “If this is God's world, why is it so messed up?”

Philip Yancey's book, Rumors of Another World, sheds some most-needed light on the issue of the existence of God. He discusses the different clues that have been laid out in front of our own eyes---clues that point to a Holy Creator. He also reminds the reader that there are signs of another world that are within our reach yet some people continually walk on by and unknowingly ignore them. The book chooses to discuss the beauty in this earth as well as the grandeur of another's. He teaches us that God created everything because it was all meant to reflect His glory and power.

One of the more important issues that the book pursues is the one of an evil world. Some people do not understand why there is evil in the world. In this book Philip Yancey goes deep into important issues and explains why sin is to blame for the evil in this world. He talks about why each and every person has an intuitive sense of what is right and why we feel guilty when we do something wrong.

In this world, there always seems to be a feeling of a lack of completion. There are signs of disorder in this earth and they point to a Supreme God who has given us not only physical manifestations but also a deep sense of longing for something more than this earthly life.

People who do not believe in God seem like one of the two painters Yancey talks about in the book. They frequently competed to see who could paint the visible world most faithfully. The first one said, “Now I shall prove to you I am the best.”, showing the other a picture of a curtain he had painted. The other painter said, “Well draw back the curtain and let us see the picture.” “The curtain is the picture,” replied the first with a laugh. People are looking for Armageddon-like signs or divine interruptions but what we have been looking for has been staring at us in the face all along.

Romans 1:20 says, “For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse .” To those who do not believe or who are still undecided, the burden is not only to look harder for the signs but also to listen to the rumors of another world.

[oldblue]

ako naman here's my perception of atheists or those who dont believe in God. true-blooded and pure atheists are those who grew from childhood to adulthood without an inkling of a supreme being. kumbaga parang Tarzan that was raised by the apes or tribespeople who grew in the isolated regions of this earth or even so, hardliner communists that were deprived of religion.

yun mga atheists ngaun who was given an idea of God thru their parents or their schools during childhood but renounced the idea of God when they grew up. well, tingin ko talaga free riders, nothing else (forgive me for saying). ayaw tumanaw ng utang na loob. and yet they still continue to enjoy the fruits of God's plan, still continue to ignore the sacrifice of our ancestors in matters of faith, and still continue to live amongst us, utilizing the shield of our religious beliefs.

if atheists are really proud to say or to believe that there is no God then they should also be brave enough to detach themselves from us society of believers. That's the noblest thing to do d'ba?

kumbaga be like the amish people. they live independently and they voluntarily reject modern era technology like cars and automated- equipments and machines - most of which are inventions/products of a civilized world with either Christians/Muslims soldiers guarding its gates.

living in a civilized peaceful society is one of the fruit of religion or the concept of God. and by looking at our very own history, christianity played an important role to where we are today.

we can never deny that and certainly, we cannot dispute the lessons of human history.

[empy]

I do agree. You'd be surprised how fundamentalist or obessive Christians really behave at times! They make criminals look like puppies. I know that's an exaggeration but nevertheless it drives home the point. Also these few bad apple Christian that I encounter on a daily basis are in no way a true representative of the Christian population.

case in point: Pat Robertson

[niky]

Nagbakasyon ata si sir city.

Sir niky, how do you know the Bible (writers and/or editors) are NOT inspired by the Holy Spirit?

because:

If so, the God needs a good editor to avoid all the confusion and interpretations of the "writings"...

Andami kasing Gospels. And it is admitted by Bible Scholars (despite what the fundamentalists may say, these Scholars are all Christians) that there are many Gospels, some of which may or may not have been written by the supposed authors themselves. And some of them were dropped for political reasons.

The problem is, andaming tao sa ngayon na nag-cla-claim na sila ang inspired by the Holy Spirit... at nag-a-away-away pa sila! And they're all Christians, to boot! Pati ang mga Popes, iba-iba din ang pananaw. For me, this is a sign that things may have always been that way (watch Nat Geo's "Multiple Messiah" program, which showed Jesus' rivals, some of whom were also mentioned in the Bible as either devils or allies) and may never change.

That's why I don't like other people telling me who God is... can you trust them? Puro politics ang organizer religion... at sa organized religion galing ang Bibliya.

And Jesus once said na mas magaling sa atin ang mga bata. If a kid wrote a Gospel, then, would that make it more truthful than the others? :lol:

Kaya, sa akin. God comes from within, not without. And no one has the right to say they know more about him than you, since we are all the same distance from God.

Ika nga, a la Robert Heinlem's "Stranger in a Strange Land": "Thou art God." (i.e.: He is in everyone.)

I do agree. You'd be surprised how fundamentalist or obessive Christians really behave at times! They make criminals look like puppies. I know that's an exaggeration but nevertheless it drives home the point. Also these few bad apple Christian that I encounter on a daily basis are in no way a true representative of the Christian population.

Sayang lang, like with Fundamentalist Muslims, they're the loudest.

Hindi mo kailangan ng bible to do good, period hehe.

Yup. Kailangan ng beer. When I drink, I get drunk. When I get drunk, I sleep. When I sleep, I do not sin.

[theveed]

kumbaga parang Tarzan that was raised by the apes or tribespeople who grew in the isolated regions of this earth or even so, hardliner communists that were deprived of religion.

yun mga atheists ngaun who was given an idea of God thru their parents or their schools during childhood but renounced the idea of God when they grew up. well, tingin ko talaga free riders, nothing else (forgive me for saying). ayaw tumanaw ng utang na loob. and yet they still continue to enjoy the fruits of God's plan, still continue to ignore the sacrifice of our ancestors in matters of faith, and still continue to live amongst us, utilizing the shield of our religious beliefs.

if atheists are really proud to say or to believe that there is no God then they should also be brave enough to detach themselves from us society of believers. That's the noblest thing to do d'ba?

"Religious people in general are so discriminatory against other people"

I rest my case, your honor.

[niky]

ako naman here's my perception of atheists or those who dont believe in God. true-blooded and pure atheists are those who grew from childhood to adulthood without an inkling of a supreme being. kumbaga parang Tarzan that was raised by the apes or tribespeople who grew in the isolated regions of this earth or even so, hardliner communists that were deprived of religion.

yun mga atheists ngaun who was given an idea of God thru their parents or their schools during childhood but renounced the idea of God when they grew up. well, tingin ko talaga free riders, nothing else (forgive me for saying). ayaw tumanaw ng utang na loob. and yet they still continue to enjoy the fruits of God's plan, still continue to ignore the sacrifice of our ancestors in matters of faith, and still continue to live amongst us, utilizing the shield of our religious beliefs.

if atheists are really proud to say or to believe that there is no God then they should also be brave enough to detach themselves from us society of believers. That's the noblest thing to do d'ba?

kumbaga be like the amish people. they live independently and they voluntarily reject modern era technology like cars and automated- equipments and machines - most of which are inventions/products of a civilized world with either Christians/Muslims soldiers guarding its gates.

living in a civilized peaceful society is one of the fruit of religion or the concept of God. and by looking at our very own history, christianity played an important role to where we are today.

we can never deny that and certainly, we cannot dispute the lessons of human history.

Then should all Christians denounce, then, modern technology produced by the minds of atheists, agnostics and Muslims? Should we not use items produced by Jews?

Religion serves as the glue that binds empires, yes, but religion also causes strife in equal measure, because of our differences of religion, and the unwillingness of religious fundamentalists to accept atheists or those of other religions as human beings. History shows us endless deaths and killings from religion. It also shows us how religion can be used to build empires, to construct civilizations, too. But is that to say it can't be done without religion? Darius once wielded a vast Persian Empire with no organized religion, and he let his vassal states practice as they would. The Greeks had no strong religious ties to any one God, their pantheon may have been co-opted from different pagan gods, piled into one house of gods, yet they created a strong and peaceful democracy, laid down the rules of modern science, and founded the idea of equality of man. The Romans created a vast empire, using the same borrowed and tenuous religion... and they halfway tolerated Christianity and Judaism... until they became wholly Christian.

A unified religion is an aspect of civilization, but it's not always a requirement or precursor for civilization.

I'm an agnostic. I didn't grow up in a non-religious household. My grandmother was a devout follower of the Mother of Perpetual Help. But my mother is a Protestant, and my Dad is a Catholic. Being a Protestant, my mother isn't comfortable with the arrogance of some Catholic priests, and the ritualistic ceremony of mass here.

There are numerous times when a Priest will slam Protestants, Born-Agains, etcetera, as people who will go to hell. So my Mom's a Protestant, I should be happy with that? Should she convert to Catholicism? What the hell's the problem? She believes in Jesus like the rest of the Christians...

That's why I don't like organized religion, and I think it's unfair to say that all our gifts come from any person's God. We should all be sleeping in mud huts then, without electricity, because without the insipration of the Greeks (who were wantonly non-monotheistic people) we wouldn't have had the renaissance, or the birth of modern science.

My ancestors were Japanese and Filipino, who lived for a long time without a Catholic faith. In honor of them, I should be worshipping various "Bathalas" and practice Zen Buddhism.

Atheists are people who don't want to or don't need to believe in a hereafter... or who don't think that a God is needed necessarily, for there to be a hereafter. Atheism doesn't come from inexperience with God. Most atheists grew up in a religious household, and grew away from the faith, because they didn't like what they saw there. They looked at the history of religion and found it wanting. It's a personal choice, and a hard one, but I can respect that.

If the atheists should disconnect themselves from society because their beliefs are different, then we should all go our separate ways. Sa INC ang INC, sa ADD ang ADD, sa El Shaddai ang mga El Shaddai. We shouldn't mix with Muslims, Jews, Buddhists or Hindus. We shouldn't accept Korean cars or Japanese appliances. We shouldn't accept American money because much of it is Protestant and/or Agnostic/Atheist. Paano tayo dyan?

[5Speed]

Yup. Kailangan ng beer. When I drink, I get drunk. When I get drunk, I sleep. When I sleep, I do not sin.


herherherher.....

hmmmm di bagay ang beer sa :popcorn:

[theveed]

Tyaga mo sumagot Niky, hehe...

[GlennSter]

on a roll si niky..pati sa ibang threads

[theveed]

May commision per word typed hehe.

[niky]

Sana nga...

[Imau]

Then should all Christians denounce, then, modern technology produced by the minds of atheists, agnostics and Muslims? Should we not use items produced by Jews?

Religion serves as the glue that binds empires, yes, but religion also causes strife in equal measure, because of our differences of religion, and the unwillingness of religious fundamentalists to accept atheists or those of other religions as human beings. History shows us endless deaths and killings from religion. It also shows us how religion can be used to build empires, to construct civilizations, too. But is that to say it can't be done without religion? Darius once wielded a vast Persian Empire with no organized religion, and he let his vassal states practice as they would. The Greeks had no strong religious ties to any one God, their pantheon may have been co-opted from different pagan gods, piled into one house of gods, yet they created a strong and peaceful democracy, laid down the rules of modern science, and founded the idea of equality of man. The Romans created a vast empire, using the same borrowed and tenuous religion... and they halfway tolerated Christianity and Judaism... until they became wholly Christian.

A unified religion is an aspect of civilization, but it's not always a requirement or precursor for civilization.

I'm an agnostic. I didn't grow up in a non-religious household. My grandmother was a devout follower of the Mother of Perpetual Help. But my mother is a Protestant, and my Dad is a Catholic. Being a Protestant, my mother isn't comfortable with the arrogance of some Catholic priests, and the ritualistic ceremony of mass here.

There are numerous times when a Priest will slam Protestants, Born-Agains, etcetera, as people who will go to hell. So my Mom's a Protestant, I should be happy with that? Should she convert to Catholicism? What the hell's the problem? She believes in Jesus like the rest of the Christians...

That's why I don't like organized religion, and I think it's unfair to say that all our gifts come from any person's God. We should all be sleeping in mud huts then, without electricity, because without the insipration of the Greeks (who were wantonly non-monotheistic people) we wouldn't have had the renaissance, or the birth of modern science.

My ancestors were Japanese and Filipino, who lived for a long time without a Catholic faith. In honor of them, I should be worshipping various "Bathalas" and practice Zen Buddhism.

Atheists are people who don't want to or don't need to believe in a hereafter... or who don't think that a God is needed necessarily, for there to be a hereafter. Atheism doesn't come from inexperience with God. Most atheists grew up in a religious household, and grew away from the faith, because they didn't like what they saw there. They looked at the history of religion and found it wanting. It's a personal choice, and a hard one, but I can respect that.

If the atheists should disconnect themselves from society because their beliefs are different, then we should all go our separate ways. Sa INC ang INC, sa ADD ang ADD, sa El Shaddai ang mga El Shaddai. We shouldn't mix with Muslims, Jews, Buddhists or Hindus. We shouldn't accept Korean cars or Japanese appliances. We shouldn't accept American money because much of it is Protestant and/or Agnostic/Atheist. Paano tayo dyan?

nice post! 100% agree. CO-EXISTENCE dapat. I am a Catholic, and I've met a lot of atheist and most of them are good and compassionate people.

[number001]

The problem is, andaming tao sa ngayon na nag-cla-claim na sila ang inspired by the Holy Spirit... at nag-a-away-away pa sila! And they're all Christians, to boot! Pati ang mga Popes, iba-iba din ang pananaw. For me, this is a sign that things may have always been that way (watch Nat Geo's "Multiple Messiah" program, which showed Jesus' rivals, some of whom were also mentioned in the Bible as either devils or allies) and may never change.

That's why I don't like other people telling me who God is... can you trust them? Puro politics ang organizer religion... at sa organized religion galing ang Bibliya.

Most atheists grew up in a religious household, and grew away from the faith, because they didn't like what they saw there. They looked at the history of religion and found it wanting. It's a personal choice, and a hard one, but I can respect that.

There are numerous times when a Priest will slam Protestants, Born-Agains, etcetera, as people who will go to hell.

I think society has put some misplaced expectation or are typecasting against people belonging to different religious sects. For example, I think most religion would always extol their followers to always do good (the definition of which is quite subjective from religion to religion). However, I noticed-and not that I'm trying to be an apologist-but among different religions, Christians are most susceptible for being blamed of not living up to the same standards as what is espoused from the Bible. On the other hand, If a Muslim conducted themselves improperly, their misdeeds or supposed "sin" are easily overlooked and miscontrued simply because they are often typecasted as being terrorists hiding behind the mask of a religion and so forth. By nature, man is a very sinful creature. In a utopian world, Christians would behave in a lemming-like manner comprised of proper conduct and good works as espoused by God. However, we live in this imperfect world and hopefully, the misdeeds of a few provervial "bad-apple" Christians should not hold a sway on one's faith or serve as a disillusionment towards God and the Christian faith.

[niky]

That's true, but it's the general attitude and intolerance of religious leaders and institutions towards each other that bothers me, not whether all Christians go to Church, or whether all Muslims celebrate the Ramadan.

As per example, that priest... and I've heard mass a zillion times wherein another priest will say exactly the same things... I didn't notice until my Mom brought it up, because it upset her... now I see the bigotry towards other "Christians" all the time.

And the example of ADD, INC and El Shaddai, and their insanely petty bickering.

And Pope John Paul's insistence that women cannot become priests (even though Mary Magdalene was, demonstrably, an evangelist during her time)... or Pope Benedict's soft stance on fundamentalist Creationism (which John Paul tried to combat during his time).

It's a disillusionment towards the Churches that espouse the Christian faith, not Christianity itself. Which is why I'm an agnostic and not an atheist. I believe there may be a God, but I don't believe that we know him yet.

It's not always Christianity that's at fault, look at the arrogance of Jewish fundamentalists, or the violence of Islamic fundamentalists. The more one believes in the all-importance of their religion, the more likely they will react violently or negatively to other religions.

For me, it's simply this. I respect my Catholic friends, but I admonish them not to force me to go to Church if I don't want to. I respect my Muslim friends in their beliefs, and I won't tiptoe around them in fear of my life from Jihad (I'm not naive)... and I respect my Hindu friend, even though I find it funny that he prays in all of our churches (Catholic, Muslim, Hindu, etcetera) because Hindus believe that there can be many Gods, all different faces of the one true God.

Which is probably the best way to think about it. Unfortunately, those who think about it too much often come to the conclusion that they alone, and no one else, is right.

[theveed]

Which is probably the best way to think about it. Unfortunately, those who think about it too much often come to the conclusion that they alone, and no one else, is right.

Kasi nga daw sabi ng Bibliya/Quran nila hehe..

[Flagg]

on a roll si niky..pati sa ibang threads

Hinahabol siguro si doc otep.

Sir niky, would it not be possible na the Holy Spirit guided Constantine's editorial hand? Of course, he did it to more easily govern his empire, but, is it not strange that among the many religions (including his own Sol Invictus one), the one chosen was one of the most persecuted of all?

Sol Invictus isn't such a bad choice as he had large numbers of adherents in the populace and, most importantly, a large majority in the soldiery through his connected Mithras religion. Yet, even then, poor lion-food Christianity was chosen. It seems some kind of divine plan seems to persevere inspite of all that human hubris.

Not to say na the Church is all omniscient, of course. I agree wholeheartedly with your belief of religion from within. Marami ako chizmax about wayward priests and cardinals... ehehe.

For me, the Bible is a pretty good guide... for now. I'm pretty sure the Good Book is continuously evolving. What, pag nag-2nd coming si Jesus, wala na additional books? Ehehe. Boring naman.

[5Speed]

hmmmmmm....

:popcorn:

[nat2x]

i love reading dis thread :soda:

[niky]

Hinahabol siguro si doc otep.

Sir niky, would it not be possible na the Holy Spirit guided Constantine's editorial hand? Of course, he did it to more easily govern his empire, but, is it not strange that among the many religions (including his own Sol Invictus one), the one chosen was one of the most persecuted of all?

Sol Invictus isn't such a bad choice as he had large numbers of adherents in the populace and, most importantly, a large majority in the soldiery through his connected Mithras religion. Yet, even then, poor lion-food Christianity was chosen. It seems some kind of divine plan seems to persevere inspite of all that human hubris.

Not to say na the Church is all omniscient, of course. I agree wholeheartedly with your belief of religion from within. Marami ako chizmax about wayward priests and cardinals... ehehe.

For me, the Bible is a pretty good guide... for now. I'm pretty sure the Good Book is continuously evolving. What, pag nag-2nd coming si Jesus, wala na additional books? Ehehe. Boring naman.

Actually, depends on your worldview. For the Jews, Rome's choice of Christianity must have seemed like doomsday itself, and inspired by Belzebub... Remember, Christians aren't the most persecuted ever... that unfortunate distinction falls upon the Jews, and that only continued to get worse as Christianity grew. It is noteworthy that Christianity is a very compelling religion, as not only did it take over Rome, but also half the world. The European's use of the Cross and Sword in conquering and annexing land was as much to do with the Cross as the Sword. Christianity may not be perfect, but it is very persuasive, and a much better alternative to the religions that preceded it.

*sigh* kung puwede lang mag-evolve ang Bible. What use are Bible Scholars kung walang ma-i-implement na changes? The Bible should be edited and re-written already. Get rid of all the Old Testament Jewish writing (eye for an eye stuff... holy wars... definitely not Christian), make it much clearer that Mary Magdalene isn't a prostitute... condense the four Gospels into one... ang dami!

Habulin si doc Otep? Impossible... Kailangan kong mag 15,000 posts overnight... Besides, second lang ako last month dahil parati akong nawawalan ng internet...

[Chip]

Nabusog na ako sa popcorn e. Hirit din ako hehe

There is absolutely nothing wrong with religion nor faith for that matter as long as these are tempered by an open mind.

The problem with the world's zealots is that they are willfully ignorant, refusing to exercise their God-given mental gifts in exchange for the comfort of blindly accepting what is fed to them. Faith, and consequently religion, must be reasonable, and it must be informed.

Take aside any self-righteous religious person with the fire of unthinking zeal burning brightly in his eyes and watch him quote verses from his holy book as easily as you and I can type in the tsikot URL (ok, that was a geeky analogy :P). But try asking them a question as to why they beleive or ask them something that falls out of the scope of what they have memorized and watch them fall back to their defense of quote verses, as if quoting obscure verses can patch up the gaping holes in their beliefs.

I believe that religion and faith, like all things in this world, must be taken in moderation. Too much and you tend to condemn people who are not of your ilk, and too little, and you risk losing out on something that can be potentially uplifting.