Not everything in the Bible is true...

[Luap]

Bah you're forgeting our share ah?

do you require 10% of my earnings?

[city]

The end na kapatid.

ok.

[city]

religion is really a good business. I made so much money just by betting that this thread will reach 20 pages...and it's getting better....I made another bet that this thread will reach 30 pages...so, let's get it on! hehe

OT: congrats on our new daddy!...you earned enough from this thread to spend something on your christening...joke.

Piece of advise: Spare the rod..you'll never spoil your child.

[city]

Have a go my friend. And by the way, order is not always exclusive of violence.

you mean violence is justified to attain order? is this your philosophy in life?

[Luap]

OT: congrats on our new daddy!...you earned enough from this thread to spend something on your christening...joke.

Piece of advise: Spare the rod..you'll never spoil your child.

hehehe...konti na lang 30 pages na...pwde ng pampabinyag harharhar

[silverstone]

masaya dito ah...kaka-entertain nga. makasali nga ulit.

wala nagreact dun sa previous post ko ah...anyway, sa aking obserbasyon lamang:

Ang religion ay ginawa ng mga tao para ma-explain ang mga bagay na hindi nila naiintindihan....proof? flashback muna tayo sa mga ninuno nating nanininiwala na ang araw ay si God...why? kasi hindi nila alam kung ano yung maliwanag na bolang apoy dun sa langit...paano nagsimula ang mga tao? ahh...ginawa ni God si adan then si eba...although madami nang physical evidences na may mga cavemen noon...pero syempre malulugi ang negosyo ng vatican (sorry po sa tatamaan) kung pumayag sila sa findings ng scientists...i've been a catholic all my life until now pero madami pa ring questions na hindi ko masagot at ayaw ko namang kunin sa bible ang mga sagot dahil gawa lang ng tao yun (mentioned in my previous post). madalas naabuso yung religion for their own gains like yung mga ginawa ng mga spanish friars nung panahon ng mga kastila....(although nagpapasalamat ako sa kanila dahil sa ginawa nila, nagkaisa ang mga pilipino kahit papaano nung time na yun) kasi before the spaniards came, wala tayong iisang lider...kundi sangkatutak na datus lang na palagi pa nag-aaway-away (read your history books children)...would you believe, it took only 400 spanish soldiers (correct me if im worng) to conquer the philippines...kasi yung ibang datu kumampi sa kanila laban sa kapwa pilipino...(that explains the attitudes of present-day pinoys...wala pa ring nagbabago...mas kumakampi sa foreigners kasi sa mga kalahi nila...back to topic...religion ang ginamit na panakot ng mga kastila para sakupin tayo...kesyo hindi daw sila mase-save at mapupunta sa langit kundi tayo maconvert into christianity...hay buhay...

[qman]

have you read it yourself? from genesis to revelations?

have you?

[city]

have you?

you're asking me to read the bible..i just want to know if you did. kasi di ba why ask someone to do something that you yourself havent done it. I hope you get my point. So please don't my questions back at me. it's an honest question. Try to be honest.

[silverstone]

whew summer na nga...

[wren]

religion is really a good business. I made so much money just by betting that this thread will reach 20 pages...and it's getting better....I made another bet that this thread will reach 30 pages...so, let's get it on! hehe

ang baba pala ng over/under ko, 10 pages lang.

[jim]

i see some people who shared in this thread are digging a hole into where they will transfer all the water of the ocean............. ;)

[oldblue]

can you explain how freewill works? it's something i dont clearly understand up till now.

me too I dont understand this freewill concept entirely. I may have to agree with *city on this one. all this time, I thought both OT and NT's purpose were to impose God's will upon us.

the only difference between you (*city) and me is it's not really a big deal for me to follow God's will. I dont question the motives of God.

[oldblue]

not really...i'll probably revere someone who is worth revering. not someone with a history of violence. If this is the case, there must be something that compels me to revere a person even if he is not worth revering. this person must be using a silent threat that if i dont revere him...i'll spend the rest of my life in torture...this is not true reverence..it's more of control....definitely not freewill.

exactly. same reason why the bible ended with the revelations. to scare the living **** out of those who do evil deeds.

if this is the given, then the more it is for you to revere a person that can save you from such torture.

ito ang maling paniniwala sa Christian faith: follow God, he invites you to heaven, dont follow God, he sends you to hell. and this divine condition irritates a lot of people and therefore, atheists and converts are reborn.

God does not and will not send you to hell. The 1st, 2nd & 3rd coming are all about saving (hence, messiah, saviour). God will save you if you want to be saved. if you dont, then he'll let you be .... for the taking of another force perhaps.

[oldblue]

Cont. ko *city:


if you study religion, science, politics and history, you can find a similar pattern: opposing forces. good vs. evil, positive vs. negative atoms, army vs. army, fact vs. slander, light vs dark and so on and so forth.

ganun lang naman ang God namin, he's just one side of the force. evil is another side. is he omnipotent enough to banish Satan and his henchmen demons to end all sufferings and misdeeds in this world? for me, no!

yan ang message ng bible para sakin, that there are other forces beyond God's control.

and with that I would like to share this argument from evil:

1. If God exists, he is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent.
2. If God, is omniscient, he knows when any evil is occurring (or about to occur).
3. If God is omnibenevolent, he would want to prevent all evil.
4. If God is omnipotent, he could prevent all evil.
5. So, if God existed, there would be no evil. (1-4)
6. There is evil in the world.
7. Therefore, God cannot exist. (5,6)

logical? yes! scary? yes again. would you then want evil to reign in this world coz accdg to that argument God cannot exist, *city? For me, never! and that is where faith comes in.

[cumbersome]

you mean violence is justified to attain order? is this your philosophy in life?

Hasty generalization there. Nonetheless, violence, unfortunately, is sometimes necessary to attain order. Human history has proven that beyond doubt. Spanking your child to stress a point of discipline is a small measure of violence. All countries maintain some sort of military force as a deterrent to violence, and to dish it out if it comes to that. It's rather naive to think that order can be attained, and be maintained without conflict.

If God used violence in old times to deal with a trespass, then it is His prerogative (what sort of God doesn't have prerogatives?).And it must be pointed out that in cases where He did use deadly force, more than sufficient chance and time has been given to the offenders to desist, and in some cases He waited centuries.

No, violence is not my philosophy in life. And yes, your questions are meandering.

[city]

Cont. ko *city:


if you study religion, science, politics and history, you can find a similar pattern: opposing forces. good vs. evil, positive vs. negative atoms, army vs. army, fact vs. slander, light vs dark and so on and so forth.

ganun lang naman ang God namin, he's just one side of the force. evil is another side. is he omnipotent enough to banish Satan and his henchmen demons to end all sufferings and misdeeds in this world? for me, no!

yan ang message ng bible para sakin, that there are other forces beyond God's control.

and with that I would like to share this argument from evil:



logical? yes! scary? yes again. would you then want evil to reign in this world coz accdg to that argument God cannot exist, *city? For me, never! and that is where faith comes in.

sup dude...

just a thought...isaiah 45:7 reads god created everything..good and evil...this confuses me to be honest....it was even god who created satan, his adversary whom he allows to play with people's lives...and then he claims he'll defeat satan in the end...so when that happens..no more evil?....medyo malabo kasi when there is no more evil what is the world like without evil? lahat masaya na?..lahat wala ng problema?....lagi ng masaya?..how do we differentiate being happy and being not if laging masaya? how do we tell the difference?......so all this tale about god and satan, salvation, armageddon, second coming, heaven, hell doesn't make sense....what makes sense is that we live in a world where bad things happen and good things happen....we have a choice which way we want to go to.....wars, crime, violence, death happens because that 's the way it is for humans...we're territorial, we get hungry, some of us are born with natural skills some are not, some have good breeding, some have not...life is so diverse....if there are no whites, there won't be blacks....we continuously learn what are bad and which are good for us and for the whole....all this mythology about some creator being in control and knows what will happen in the future because the plan is all laid out doesn't make sense....that story contradicts rationality and logic..and it limits your oppurtunity to explore and see things differently.

I dunno bro....but god and these things doesn't make sense to me at all...i know some will react to this statement but if we try and understand what life really is then i dont think we will have a hard time accepting things which do not go our way.

god and religion has not been a solution to the worlds problems obviously. MAn should think of something else..ive met non believers here and from different countries and i'm surprise how friendly, compassionate, and loving these people are... Religion should probably be something that will enhance spirituality or improve a person's charater and not to create division...like maybe yoga?..i'm not sure which other religion should be practiced like this...no personal god..no guilt feeling, no threat of eternal torture but plain personal development emphasizing on love, patience, compassion, hard work, understanding, positivity, ways of eliminating negativity., continuous improvement and learning.....then i would think man has found a better way of sovling his problems.

For as long as man is not planning to change all this religious myth..we have a long way of achieving what we all want..and that is peace..what we'll be looking forward to is more wars, violence, crime, innocent deaths.

[city]

Hasty generalization there. Nonetheless, violence, unfortunately, is sometimes necessary to attain order. Human history has proven that beyond doubt. Spanking your child to stress a point of discipline is a small measure of violence. All countries maintain some sort of military force as a deterrent to violence, and to dish it out if it comes to that. It's rather naive to think that order can be attained, and be maintained without conflict.

If God used violence in old times to deal with a trespass, then it is His prerogative (what sort of God doesn't have prerogatives?).And it must be pointed out that in cases where He did use deadly force, more than sufficient chance and time has been given to the offenders to desist, and in some cases He waited centuries.

No, violence is not my philosophy in life. And yes, your questions are meandering.

Hi cumbersome..i didn't mean to get too personal with my questions..sorry dude.

For me..violence invites more violence...and this is a fact...and you said it yourself. But there is another way to attain order and that is thru nonviolent means. The principle "violence is justified to attain order", for me, is a very dangerous philosopy...and it will get us nowhere...up until now....violence had never stopped and had not solved our problems....look around us. I hope man find nonviolent ways to attain order..because i belive it can be done.

And speaking of spanking a child..i believe this is where it all starts....violence is introduced to a child so in turn these children will come to believe that violence is needed to control, to manipulate and to get what you want..this is not a very good idea if we want to do away with violence..and i know you agree that you don't want violence..all of us do not want it. but if we could start from our children we have a bright future ahead of us. let's break the cycle dude. A child can be raised without having to resort to spanking, shouting, humiliating, time-outs, ficititious rewards...let's try something different....why not treat them like adults..give them the respect, compassion, love and understanding they deserve, NCV= non-violent communication..emphatic parenting....believe me bro..we will have made a big step of eliminating violence in our society. A contribution to society.

I have a 6 year old daughter who never had any spanking or shouting , humiliation from me and my wife....man! i would like you to meet her personally...she has learned our example and is very comapssionate and loving. Watch her play and deal with people....you'll be surprise how nonviolent she is....she doesnt resort to violence in getting what she want...nakakatuwa. Other children bully her but always choose not to react violently instead retreat to our loving arms to feel secure.

Children are smart and they are capable of understanding what we need of them if we only try and be patient with them..they have needs that must be met and resorting to violence is one way of paasing the cylce to them and thus it will never end.

[Luap]

Hi cumbersome..i didn't mean to get too personal with my questions..sorry dude.

For me..violence invites more violence...and this is a fact...and you said it yourself. But there is another way to attain order and that is thru nonviolent means. The principle "violence is justified to attain order", for me, is a very dangerous philosopy...and it will get us nowhere...up until now....violence had never stopped and had not solved our problems....look around us. I hope man find nonviolent ways to attain order..because i belive it can be done.

And speaking of spanking a child..i believe this is where it all starts....violence is introduced to a child so in turn these children will come to believe that violence is needed to control, to manipulate and to get what you want..this is not a very good idea if we want to do away with violence..and i know you agree that you don't want violence..all of us do not want it. but if we could start from our children we have a bright future ahead of us. let's break the cycle dude. A child can be raised without having to resort to spanking, shouting, humiliating, time-outs, ficititious rewards...let's try something different....why not treat them like adults..give them the respect, compassion, love and understanding they deserve, NCV= non-violent communication..emphatic parenting....believe me bro..we will have made a big step of eliminating violence in our society. A contribution to society.

I have a 6 year old daughter who never had any spanking or shouting , humiliation from me and my wife....man! i would like you to meet her personally...she has learned our example and is very comapssionate and loving. Watch her play and deal with people....you'll be surprise how nonviolent she is....she doesnt resort to violence in getting what she want...nakakatuwa. Other children bully her but always choose not to react violently instead retreat to our loving arms to feel secure.

Children are smart and they are capable of understanding what we need of them if we only try and be patient with them..they have needs that must be met and resorting to violence is one way of paasing the cylce to them and thus it will never end.

- this is what I want for my baby - btw bro, do you happen to be Bo Sanchez? you sound like him, but not as religious

[empy]

you know what i don't get about my religion (catholicism)? original sin? wtf is that?

why am i accountable for an act that one of my ancestors committed? or is this a metaphor for how man is inherently evil and must be "saved"? because i don't believe that either.

i have plenty enough to be sorry about and repent to my God without some dude from history piling it on

[Luap]

you know what i don't get about my religion (catholicism)? original sin? wtf is that?

why am i accountable for an act that one of my ancestors committed? or is this a metaphor for how man is inherently evil and must be "saved"? because i don't believe that either.

i have plenty enough to be sorry about and repent to my God without some dude from history piling it on

same sentiment here bro! nang dahil sa isang "mansanas" tsk tsk