Explosion at Glorietta?

[Honda97]

Foreign experts cast doubts on PNP's Glorietta blast findings

[SIZE=2]An international terror and insurgency expert on Tuesday cast doubt on the police's findings that the deadly Glorietta 2 mall blast in Makati City last year was caused by a gas explosion while a Malaysian bomb expert stood by a finding that the blast was caused by explosives.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"The government needs to conduct quick and clear inquiry," Kit Collier, an International Crisis Group consultant, told foreign media members at a conference in Makati City.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Collier was referring to the delayed report of the Philippine National Police's findings on the October 19 Glorietta 2 mall blast that killed 11 people and wounded 108 others. The police released its report on the incident last week. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]The police said the incident at the Glorietta 2 was a gas explosion. It said there were actually two explosions, methane gas and diesel vapor blasts, that took place at the mall's basement.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]At least 15 people have been found liable for the blasts that killed 11 people and wounded 108 others.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]In the Annual Prospects Forum held at the Mandarin Hotel in Makati City, Collier focused on the initial RDX findings of the police, which was fully disregarded in the final report.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Collier, however, said that the police should have explained why and how the initial RDX findings turned out negative. "The government needs to speak with one voice and be far more transparent. It's important that confusion is dispelled," he said.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Collier also noted that the police backtracked on its own report that a gas explosion caused the sinking of the SuperFerry 14 on Feb. 7, 2004, which killed at least 100 people. The police took back its initial findings after discovering that the explosion was actually caused by four kilos of TNT (trinitrotoluene).[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]A suspect identified as Redendo Cain Dellosa admitted to the police that the bomb was placed in a television set. The suspect said the Abu Sayyaf bandit group, which has links with Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda, told him to plant the bomb. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]The SuperFerry bombing is widely perceived as the world's deadliest terrorist attack at sea.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Interior and Local Government Secretary Ronaldo Puno earlier said investigators did not focus on the RDX findings at the Glorietta 2 blast site "because of all the other physical evidence that was surfacing."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Even if we have two drums of RDX there, because all the other aspects that relate to a bombing were absent, there would not have been a bombing in any case. So, it was irrelevant whether RDX was there or not after all the physical evidence that surfaced," he said.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]RDX, nickname for a chemical called cyclotrimethylenetrinitramine, is an explosive component. The police, however, pointed out that RDX is also present in softdrink cans and cosmetic products.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]The police's final report of gas explosions which caused the Glorietta 2 mall blast contradicted the Ayala Land Inc.'s (ALI) paid investigation, conducted by Malaysian expert Aini Ling. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]In her report, Ling said a bomb caused the explosion, citing the RDX traces at the blast site.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"I can certainly conclude that the blast was a result of the detonation of explosives," Ling told ABS-CBN News correspondent Ricky Carandang in Malaysia.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ling said RDX was found in significant quantities along with HMX (cyclotetramethylene-tetranitramine), tretyl, TNT (trinitrotoluene) and other explosive components.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ling said these chemicals cannot just be procured by anyone.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"It’s next to impossible. (Getting the chemical) depends on who you are. I would say that military people or those people licensed by the government. Otherwise they might get it through illegal ways," said Ling.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ling works in the Forensics Services Company in Malaysia and had investigated more than 400 cases of fires and explosions in 15 years.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]One of the cases Ling had investigated was the SuperFerry which due to the Malaysian bomb expert’s findings police backtracked on its report of a gas explosion.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]A chemist from the National Bureau of Investigation (NBI) however insisted that no explosive component was found at the blast site.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]The chemist said that the site was positive only for diesel and hydrogen sulfide – a chemical, along with methane, was formed from the bacterial breakdown of human and animal waste.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]The NBI also said that the mall’s basement was not properly maintained citing two empty slots for electrical fuse and the use of an improvised fuse.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Meanwhile ALI on Tuesday expressed dismay over the statement of Justice Secretary Raul Gonzalez that cases may still be filed against Ayala Property Management Corp. (APMC) in connection with the Glorietta 2 blast.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Alfie Reyes, ALI spokesman, said however that it was the prerogative of the justice secretary.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Reyes said that ALI is confident that the result of their independent probe would still be considered and no official of personnel should be held responsible for the deadly blast as they assured that they are ready to defend it in a court..[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Ang paniniwala namin inosente iyung mga hinablahan at nasampahan ng charges at paniniwala namin hindi nga gas ang naging sanhi at hindi negligence ang pagsabog (We believe that those who have been charged and filed charges are innocent and we believe that it was not gas that was the cause of the blast and also not negligence)," said Reyes.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Gonzalez had earlier said that he is still studying if APMC which oversees the maintenance of the mall be held accountable. He said APMC contracted the services of the companies whose officials have been charged by the police.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"The question in my mind is what's the liability of the group that did the hiring?" said Gonzalez.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Gonzalez is set to form a panel to conduct the preliminary investigation on the complaints filed by police in connection with the Makati blast. [/SIZE]

uh oh... here we go again...

[shadow]

^^^these experts were not there in the site, they don't have any physical evidences from the site, so all of their comments are baseless....

I beleive that people in science always needs to study the actual site and evidences before giving their opinions, but this malaysian expert gave her opinion first before actually study the evidences...

smell,taste like a paid bark dog for the Ayalas....

[shadow]

double post

[morrissey_05]

shadow,

i agree. her first swab was negative. second swab positive. bakit kaya ganun? and there is some debate whether she actually went down to the basement.

[mamichula]

Razon admits lack of PNP knowledge on chemicals

http://philstar.com/index.php?Headli...id=20080113142

so ano basis nila bakit nila pinagpipilitan yung theory nila?

The PNP did not do their analysis on their own, they just presented the findings. The analysis was done by engineers and other experts.

[Syuryuken]

lintik din talaga tong siraulo gonzales nagsalita na naman wala daw pananagutan ang ayala land sa nangyari

[Bogeyman]

ALI has been cleared of any involvement in the Glorietta blast, pero pag-iisipan pa daw kung isasama sa kaso yung Ayala Property Management, Inc. which is directly responsible for maintaining the property.

[boybi]

^^^yup! that is true, but do you think if they found out that it was a terrorist bomb, eh they will just allow PNP to brush it aside and tell the public that it was just a gas explosion?

If the FBI/Americans think that the terrorist act (if it actually was a terrorist act) is just local to the Phils., then they won't give a damn about it. They will just let the PNP say whatever they want.

[Jun aka Pekto]

If the FBI/Americans think that the terrorist act (if it actually was a terrorist act) is just local to the Phils., then they won't give a damn about it. They will just let the PNP say whatever they want.

If it was in fact a terrorist act, the US will care because there's no telling when the US Embassy will be the next target. Plus, there are a lot of US citizens in the Philippines (including my dad for one thing) along with other Westerners.

[Honda97]

Ayala's side...

Ayala offers more proof of G-2 bombing

[SIZE=2]By JAIME LAUDE
[/SIZE][SIZE=2]The Philippine Star[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]A bomb was responsible for the explosion at the Glorietta 2 shopping mall in Makati last October, contrary to the findings of police investigators that the explosion was caused by methane gas or diesel fuel, according to Ayala Land Inc. (ALI), citing new evidence .[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Documents obtained by The STAR showed forensic experts hired by ALI detected traces of explosives at the blast site after a physical inspection and collection of samples on Nov. 2 and 6 last year.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"This corroborates testimonies of a number of witnesses who have reported gunpowder at or in the vicinity of the blast site immediately after the explosion," Ayala Land said.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Documents showed Ayala Land followed standard procedures in taking samples from the site to ensure that they were free from contamination.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Documents showed that on Nov. 2, Ayala Land collected two swabs and one scrapping, and an additional six samples on Nov. 6, all with clearance from police authorities.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Nine samples were sent for laboratory analysis to Armstrong Forensic Services in Texas to determine whether they contained explosive residues, according to documents. Armstrong Forensic Services has more than 25 years’ experience in forensics, and is approved by, among others, the American Academy of Forensic Sciences and the International Association of Arson Investigators.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Each of the six samples examined bore the presence of significant quantities of high order explosives’ residue," according to Armstrong. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Each of the six samples shows at least three high explosive components. Five of the six samples show the presence of the widely used explosive, RDX."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ayala Land said Glorietta 2 has no septic tank where solid and liquid wastes could accumulate, contrary to police findings that methane gas had built up in the basement.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Liquid and solid wastes from the Makati central business district flows through a sewage system to a treatment plant," Ayala Land said. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Methane production is actually more possible in residential septic tanks or the common pozo negro, which is actually about 10 times bigger than the Glorietta sump pit. "This is because the human waste in the pozo negro is left undisturbed for months."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ayala Land said the mall’s sump pit is roughly the size of about three drums and serves five restaurants and hundreds of people everyday so it must be flushed clean twice or thrice a day, and six or more times on week-ends.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"The tremendous pressure required for an explosion could not have been produced," Ayala Land said.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"Septic tanks do not explode because whatever little gas accumulates escapes through outlets. Explosions occur only if pressure builds up and cannot escape. In Glorietta 2, there are two big outlets for gas: the stairway and the delivery bay."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ayala Land said if there was residual gas in the basement, all it could have done was ignite into a ball of fire, and that it would not have exploded the way it did and penetrated thick concrete floors.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"It must be stressed that nowhere in the area was there any indication of fire," Ayala Land said.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"The diesel tank and walls around it, and the white pillars supporting the building’s weight, among others, were unmarked by fire."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]Ayala Land said the diesel tank in the mall’s basement was virtually intact, and damage was limited to a small portion of the lid that was pried open because of the blast.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]"The tank is undamaged and serviceable," Ayala Land said. "The diesel fuel was still inside, aside from what flowed out of the broken sight glass."[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]No methane or diesel fumes were produced, and no pressure or gas compression was created to generate the kind explosion that occurred on Nov. 19 last year, Ayala Land said. [/SIZE]