China, Philippines locked in naval standoff

[CVT]

Yup, the vast and great Russia and its punishing General Winter (and General Mud)...

17.9K:cupid2:

[Altis6453]

may mangyari kaya dito?

PH challenges China in UN | Inquirer Global Nation

sana nga manalo tayo sa kaso

Mahirap din since in disputes involving nations, the party being sued will have to agree to submit to the jurisdiction of the U.N. If it does not, the complainant country will just submit its evidence, get a ruling, but that's it. There's no way it can enforce any decision rendered in its favor.

Yun lang, I think the PH is counting on China trying to "save face" before the international community --- but, judging from past actions of China involving Vietnam, Japan, etc., its not likely to back down or agree to a UN tribunal trying to resolve what it deems to be a territorial dispute.

[domyeongsi]

hindi close allies yan Russia and China. yun Ruso-Sino Split made the cold war three ways eh. dahil nga dyan kaya bumagsak ang USSR nun 89 eh, kasi nagsuportahan na ang china and USA noon.

nabadtrip kasi China sa USSR, kasi state capitalism pala pinapatakbo ng USSR noon cold war, tapos China lang yung uto-uto na sumunod Marxist-Lenist ideology of communism.

mintik na nga nagkatirahan ng Nuclear Missile yan dalawang yan eh. something that became the advantage for the US and NATO.

pero ngayon state capitalist na rin ang china.. halos lahat ng big companies sa kanila is state owned. since lumalaki na ang economy nila, they need additional resources to maintain it. kaya naglalaway yung mga yan sa spratlys.

[Boy Bastos]

Conclusion
1) The Philippines’s claim on Scarborough Shoal can be, probably, based on several activities
of the Spanish Navy during the 19th century. The Spanish authorities surveyed, mapped, and
named the shoal, and organized rescue operations there. These actions, pursued during the
American time, were limited due to the fact that the shoal was far from the coastal area of Luzon
and mostly submerged at high tide. The shoal was nevertheless in the sphere of influence of the
Philippines. During all this time, there is no evidence of a Chinese interest, no protest by the
Emperors of the Qing Dynasty, and no description of fishing activities on this shoal. Even the
Paracel Islands, closer to China, were not part of the imperial territory before 1909.

2) In 1937-38, the colonial authorities, either American or Filipino, claimed Scarborough
Shoal. This claim was supported by the State Department and other important mainland
administrations. The transfer of the shoal could be done by invoking the Treaty of Washington of
1900. Parallel to the Filipino claim, the Chinese government made a blanket claim in 1935 to all the
features of the South China Sea, among them Scarborough Shoal. Nevertheless, with the exception
of the Paracel Islands, the Chinese authorities recognized that they had only one piece of evidence
to justify their huge claim: the presence of their fishermen from Hainan. This preventive claim
could be justified later, in the future, by more thorough research. The Filipino and Chinese claims
were not publicized to the whole world, probably to avoid attracting the attention of the Japanese.

3) Up to the 1990s, the Philippine government had some activities that went unchecked by
Chinese administrations (both mainland China and Taiwan). These activities, like stopping
smuggling activities, bombing the facilities of the smugglers, arresting some of them, building a
small lighthouse with a Filipino flag, and possibly the U.S. and Filipino navies using the shoal for
target practice were all state practices limited by the fact that the shoal is mostly underwater.
Moreover, the constitutions of 1973 and 1987 defined the main territory of the Philippines
archipelago but added, “and all other territories over which the Philippines has sovereignty or
jurisdiction”. Having been claimed by the Philippines since 1937-38, Scarborough Shoal could
logically enter the category “other territories”. This category would recognize the special position
of this shoal as under the sphere of influence of the Philippines during the Spanish time but not
part of the main archipelago. The three laws on the baselines (1961, 1968, and 2009), excluding the
shoal from the main archipelago, tend to reinforce the idea of a special maritime territory.

4) The activities of the Chinese government on the shoal started at the end of the 1970s. The
protests of the Chinese in the decades before were never targeted to the Filipino activities on
Scarborough Shoal, but to activities in the Spratly and Paracel areas. It was the occasion to tell to
the world that China was claiming all the features of the South China Sea, among them Zhongsha
Qundao.

5) The four points above concern the possible land title of the Philippines over the shoal.
These must be combined with the jurisdiction over the water surrounding the shoal. By showing to
the ITLOS that Scarborough Shoal is a low tide elevation with few rocks above sea level, the
Philippines could neutralize the EEZ around the shoal that the Chinese are eyeing. Nevertheless,
this move could push China to choose to interpret radically the symbol of the “U-shape line” and
attempt to enforce its jurisdiction in all the waters encircled by the line, with significant
consequences on the security and stability of the region.

6) The neutralization of Scarborough Shoal is also in the interest of the other ASEAN
countries, as it would reduce considerably the possibility for China to claim the whole South China
Sea. However, the 2012 standoff on Scarborough Shoal has put the spotlight on the deep divisions
among the ASEAN member states. A regional Code of Conduct for the South China Sea, binding
all the claimants, would be necessary to reduce the tensions. However, the possibility is high that
the COC would become a simple declaration under the influence of China.

7) Last but not the least, the Philippines’s claim was made 13 years before the Mutual
Defense Treaty was signed with the Americans in 1951. The claim was supported and encouraged
by the highest personalities in the American administration of the time. Scarborough Shoal could
possibly be considered as part of the MDT’s category, “island territories”. The United States and
the Philippines can develop a “strategic ambiguity” on the possible use or not of the Treaty. This
strategy could “help protect the Philippines and peace and stability in the South China Sea”.96

http://www.irasec.com/components/com...roughShoal.pdf

Haayyy...China talaga....

[mika_23]

What's your insight about this accusation (posted July 4, 2013)?

Credits to the owner:

[wezz_zzew]

We must train our fishermen to be a navy seal. They can use their knowledge on how to use a dynamite without the Philippine Coast Guard/Navy noticing it.

[userfriendly]

We must train our fishermen to be a navy seal. They can use their knowledge on how to use a dynamite without the Philippine Coast Guard/Navy noticing it.

ano yan dynamite fishing

[Boy Bastos]

We must train our fishermen to be a navy seal. They can use their knowledge on how to use a dynamite without the Philippine Coast Guard/Navy noticing it.

Matagal nang marunong gumamit ng dynamite ang mga yan at sanay na sila magtago sa Coast Guard.

[Ry_Tower]

Matagal nang marunong gumamit ng dynamite ang mga yan at sanay na sila magtago sa Coast Guard.

Oo nga naman.

Just teach them not to lose an arm by fishing in a drunken state. :rofl:

[cardict]

We must train our fishermen to be a navy seal. They can use their knowledge on how to use a dynamite without the Philippine Coast Guard/Navy noticing it.

Kung hindi kaya ng navy natin ,bahala na mga bagyo na ie export natin sa kanila

[Ry_Tower]

hehe mukhang may resbak na tayo.

Talks begin to boost US troop presence | Headlines, News, The Philippine Star | philstar.com

[e2romo]

Kailangan talaga natin ng tulong. China and Philippines is not David vs Goliath. It's Goliath vs a 2 year old toddler. Wala pa sa kalingkingan ang Firepower ng bansa natin sa bansa nila.

Pero kapag tumulong US babayaran din natin US sa nagastos nila. Similar to their help in the Gulf war. Binabayaran ng Kuwait, Saudi, at Israel yung nagastos ng US sa gera na iyon.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

[Monseratto]

The more the Philippines should open its economy to US multinationals para magwala mga leftist at so-called nationalists...

[Ry_Tower]

Kailangan talaga natin ng tulong. China and Philippines is not David vs Goliath. It's Goliath vs a 2 year old toddler. Wala pa sa kalingkingan ang Firepower ng bansa natin sa bansa nila.

Pero kapag tumulong US babayaran din natin US sa nagastos nila. Similar to their help in the Gulf war. Binabayaran ng Kuwait, Saudi, at Israel yung nagastos ng US sa gera na iyon.

Sent from my GT-N7100 using Tapatalk 2

I think the US is more curious about the oil in Malampaya. hehe

[Altis6453]

A little rant:

1. It's hard to fathom why Uncle Sam won't go all-out in providing us excess defense articles and more modern equipment so that the AFP can have a credible defense stance for the disputed territories in the WPS. I mean, Filipino soldiers fought side-by-side with American GI's in WW2, yet countries like Pakistan, Israel, Turkey and Egypt get modern jet fighers, missle defense systems and the like. Heck, Japan fought the US in WW2 and it has a more modern military c/o the USA.

2. I don't know what kind of foreign policy the PH follows, but apparently, its closely tied to US interests since we don't even consider purchases of big ticket defense equipment from the likes of Russia, Israel, France, etc. The only major defense equipment I know that's being used by the AFP are the light tanks which came from the UK.

3. Even then, the PH is not doing enough to be self-reliant in external defense matters. No government incentives are given for shipbuilders who are able to provide more modern ships for our navy or coast guard. No training or incentives for our local engineers or manufacturers who can build armored vehicles.

4. We're sadly doomed to rely on the US for probably the next 3 generations for our territorial defense. Or at least until the US Congress decides to abandon the Mutual Defense Treaty since its a complete farce.

[piscesboy]

buti pa ang india.

KOCHI - India unveiled its first indigenously-built aircraft carrier on Monday, a landmark moment in the $5 billion project that seeks to project the country's power and check the rising influence of China.

India 'milestone' as it launches own aircraft carrier | News | GMA News Online

[safeorigin]

A little rant:

1. It's hard to fathom why Uncle Sam won't go all-out in providing us excess defense articles and more modern equipment so that the AFP can have a credible defense stance for the disputed territories in the WPS. I mean, Filipino soldiers fought side-by-side with American GI's in WW2, yet countries like Pakistan, Israel, Turkey and Egypt get modern jet fighers, missle defense systems and the like. Heck, Japan fought the US in WW2 and it has a more modern military c/o the USA.

2. I don't know what kind of foreign policy the PH follows, but apparently, its closely tied to US interests since we don't even consider purchases of big ticket defense equipment from the likes of Russia, Israel, France, etc. The only major defense equipment I know that's being used by the AFP are the light tanks which came from the UK.

3. Even then, the PH is not doing enough to be self-reliant in external defense matters. No government incentives are given for shipbuilders who are able to provide more modern ships for our navy or coast guard. No training or incentives for our local engineers or manufacturers who can build armored vehicles.

4. We're sadly doomed to rely on the US for probably the next 3 generations for our territorial defense. Or at least until the US Congress decides to abandon the Mutual Defense Treaty since its a complete farce.

1. Because we are geopolitically and strategically insignificant to their foreign policy

2. Because military higher ups like stuff made in US despite their dubious condition

3. Because we are conditioned to be dependent.



4. I wouldn't be surprised how people would easily give up sovereignty for a sense of "security"

[yebo]

3. Cost. A philippine manufacturer submitted a bid for locally made m4 rifles for the afp. The contract is for 50,000 m4 rifles. The winning bid, for US made m4 rifles was a little over US$900. The local manufacturer's bid was over US$2,000.
Same as the winning bid for the pistols supplied for the pnp. The Glocks cost $380, the local manufacturer's bid was over $1,800.

mga buwaya din kasi.

[CVT]

3. Cost. A philippine manufacturer submitted a bid for locally made m4 rifles for the afp. The contract is for 50,000 m4 rifles. The winning bid, for US made m4 rifles was a little over US$900. The local manufacturer's bid was over US$2,000.
Same as the winning bid for the pistols supplied for the pnp. The Glocks cost $380, the local manufacturer's bid was over $1,800.

mga buwaya din kasi.

Agree with you, bro.

Mga dupang din kasi ang mga hinayupak na iyan....

Katulad ng mga local suppliers namin dito,- x3 or x5 ang cost nila compared sa overseas suppliers....

Masyado nila kasing mina-mark-up-an lalo na kung kumpanya ang bumibili....

Dupang nga ang mga buwaya!

Tsaka,- bata-bata rin ang labanan minsan...

Kaya hindi tayo umunlad....

20.5K:studsmatta:

[kinyo]

kapag nabigyan pambili ng armas yung general, bulsa ang inuuna ... walang pake sa china, umaasa sumaklolo ang usa