Too many PASAWAY motorcycle RIDERS on the street

**Leviticus** · March 6th, 2011 12:25 AM

Originally Posted by eojlin

^^^ alam na natin yan e... kahit bata isasagot satin na ganyan ang dapat gawin. pero ano...

"overly dramatic"... what a term.
hindi ba mas marami kang panlalait at emosyon na nai-post dito kesa sakin? hehe.

you still owe me an apology.

an apology? for what? for me stating an opinion? this is starting to get childish. I wasn't aware that you needed an apology.

teka nga muna.. all you do is complain and whine and generalize but you also fail to present an acceptable solution.

your idea to ban underbones is FLIMSY and is unreasonable. try presenting that to the DOTC, tignan natin kung pakingan ka nila.

**eojlin** · March 6th, 2011 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by Leviticus

eto link about lane splitting from NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION.

I believe the capitalized title is self explanatory.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/p...orcycle51.html

eto pa isang link:
http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/str...nes/index.html

in fact, here's a whole forum's worth of reading materials:

http://www.motorcyclephilippines.com/forums

so nagpost ng link/reference about lane splitting

Ahehehe, sorry... yung lanes para sa lane splitting lang ba ang alam mo na road markers (punta ka sa Subic - yung favorite mo'ng banggitin dito)?
Paano ka nagka-lisensya?! tsk tsk tsk

"there's just too many motorcycles on the street"

dagdagan mo na lang ito...

...
Some thoughts on why banning underbones on EDSA and C5 won't hurt Pinoy's lives so much:

1. Banks and big couriers have network of branches that allow them TO NOT REQUIRE the use of motorcycles on EDSA and C5. Vans and armoured cars are still in use, if you don't notice.
2. For the rest of the riders, one of the main reasons why we have viaducts on EDSA and C5 is for these viaducts to serve as alternatives; creating or keeping more routes for those not using EDSA and C5.
3. We can NOT expect that underbones will still proliferate and clog secondary or minor roads if ban is implemented. Pinoys are great fans of convenience, riders would most likely keep their motorcycles parked at home (or sell them) if they can't use them on EDSA and C5; and, will opt to alternatives like going back to using PUV's or car pools (this is not impossible) - it was not so long ago when riders use these. Yes, the number of riders using secondary and minor roads will be affected too.
4. We have more than enough PUV's (buses, jeepneys, and etc.).
Public transport franchises were not closely regulated (irresponsibly handled) resulting to excess (an issue still to be addressed by the government). This is one of the reasons why buses clog EDSA - we have more than enough. They take their time to get their buses filled up with commuters (THEY WAIT FOR PASSENGERS FOR TOO LONG); this is why they compete for passengers; this is also why they load and unload anywhere; nag-aagawan sila sa pasahero.
5. We will have significantly safer highways, streets, alleys, sidewalks, and even foot bridges (not the elevated ones on major roads). This alone IS ENOUGH to ban underbones on EDSA and C5.
6. Lesser deaths and injuries related to motorcycle accidents.
7. Relief from stress raised by worrying for your families and loved ones who ride motorcycles.
8. Lesser unreported and undocumented road mishaps.
9. There are more, but I will have to leave them to you guys - i've done my share.
...

try to know when to appropriately use the words flimsy and unreasonable. (may dictionary o kaya google)
in this particular thread we're in, the idea of banning underbones on EDSA and C5 is reasonable.

**eojlin** · March 6th, 2011 12:45 AM

*chyll2...
not to offend you or anybody... nasagot na yung questions mo sa previous pages ng thread na 'to.

**chyll2** · March 6th, 2011 12:47 AM

ahh okay.. sige back read na lang.. dont want to join your debate :D
I'm just sharing my side in the story.

**eojlin** · March 6th, 2011 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by chyll2

ahh okay.. sige back read na lang.. dont want to join your debate :D
I'm just sharing my side in the story.

hehe. oks lang mag share.
besides, wag ka matakot. hindi naman sakin galing yung mga harsh words, name calling, at branding dito. matakot ka kapag magsimula na ko gumamit ng mga yan. just kidding.

**Leviticus** · March 6th, 2011 08:50 AM

Originally Posted by eojlin

Ahehehe, sorry... yung lanes para sa lane splitting lang ba ang alam mo na road markers (punta ka sa Subic - yung favorite mo'ng banggitin dito)?
Paano ka nagka-lisensya?! tsk tsk tsk

"there's just too many motorcycles on the street"

dagdagan mo na lang ito...

try to know when to appropriately use the words flimsy and unreasonable. (may dictionary o kaya google)
in this particular thread we're in, the idea of banning underbones on EDSA and C5 is reasonable.

it's flimsy.

you want to know why? that big list of yours is speculation at best. you specialize at generalizing but in fact, the incidents on your list are from PERSONAL experiences and the product of an over-active imagination. you cannot even quantify your (flimsy) reasons. as I said, try going to the DOTC and let's see if they will listen to you.

and most of all, that big list of yours covers too many issues, all of which can be remedied by PROPER LAW ENFORCEMENT.

---------------------
take for example this reason as being flimsy:

we have more than enough buses?!?

what's your data on this? let me guess, you thought of this while sitting in traffic and noticing empty buses, am I right? fyi, even if traffic is not that heavy and even if passengers are plentiful, the buses will not travel faster. in fact, the buses will become SLOWER due to the multiple stops the bus needs to do to let out passengers.

hay, too easy. when was the last time you commuted in a bus?

-------------------------
eto pa:

We will have significantly safer highways, streets, alleys, sidewalks, and even foot bridges (not the elevated ones on major roads). This alone IS ENOUGH to ban underbones on EDSA and C5.-- again, what data did you base this on? panay ang THIS ALONE ka but you can't back it up. and safer from WHAT exactly?

Lesser deaths and injuries related to motorcycle accidents. this is a laughable reason. sure.. deaths and injuries will be less or NONEXISTENT because you banned it! but looking at the CURRENT data, did you know there are more accidents involving private vehicles compared to motorcycles?

eto link about cars and road accidents: http://article.wn.com/view/2010/12/08/Cars_still_figure_in_most_road_accidents_says_PNP/

see, even the PNP agrees with me based on their statistics and data.

yours on the other hand is FLIMSY.

----------
We can NOT expect that underbones will still proliferate and clog secondary or minor roads if ban is implemented. Pinoys are great fans of convenience, riders would most likely keep their motorcycles parked at home (or sell them) if they can't use them on EDSA and C5; and, will opt to alternatives like going back to using PUV's or car pools (this is not impossible) - it was not so long ago when riders use these. Yes, the number of riders using secondary and minor roads will be affected too.

I wonder how you came up with this reason. in order for a ban to be effective, there must be viable alternate routes, or else those affected by the ban will rise up. the possibility of riders selling their motorcycles is FLIMSY at best. keep motorcycles parked at home? are you trying to be comedic?

what with today's rising gas prices and traffic situation, I'm betting that more and more cagers will leave their cars at home and opt to ride a motorcycle.

going back to PUVs or car pools?!? hahahahaha! when was the last time you commuted via PUV or car pool? if you will answer that YOU DO CAR POOL, congratulations-- but not everyone share your ideals.

and buses?!? do you really want THIS to happen to you while you are riding a bus?

or worse:

again, when was the last time you commuted in a bus? riding a bus is MORE stressful. plenty of stress in a bus. you're putting your life in the hands of a sleep deprived driver that is paid on commission basis, and probably obtained his license via dubious means.

--------------
see? your list covers too many side-stories. if you want to discuss about them properly, let's do it piecemeal. one by one. if you want to discuss about banning of underbones then stick to THAT topic.

hehehe.. me needing to look up what flimsy and unreasonable means? these two words go together in this discussion with regards to your stance on banning of underbones. let me demonstrate with a simple sentence construction:

[SIZE="5"]Your reasons for banning underbones on EDSA and C5 is FLIMSY and UNREASONABLE.[/SIZE]

see? they flow together nicely

and finally, allow me to echo your last sentence:

There are more, but I will have to leave them to you guys - i've done my share.

**Leviticus** · March 6th, 2011 09:09 AM

there are too much motorcycles, but motorcycles do not take up too much space in traffic.

I can also say that traffic congestion is due to private cars. most of the time I see cars or SUVs with only a single passenger inside-- imagine the space that car occupies compared to a lone rider.

here's a nice comparative poster/picture:

**Big_daddy** · March 6th, 2011 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Leviticus

let's make it simple and not overly drammatic.

Problem --> Mga Pasaway na Riders/Drivers (which causes common accidents)

Solution -->

A. Salain ang pagbibigay ng lisensya. Dahil kapag walang lisensya ang isang hindi marunong at walang respeto sa daan... wala sila doon.

B. Di na kelangan ng bagong batas. Enough ang existing laws. Ang kulang ay proper implementation.

ewan ko....I've been saying this over and over again....but it seems some people just can't get it...

ang problema ay ang mga pasaway sa daan and not the vehicle itself. pasaway sa daan brought about by poor licensing and nonexistent enforcement.

The problem of accidents and road hazards does not entirely fall on the riders alone... Maintenance, enforcement, other road/vehicle users and pedestrians are equally responsible for what is going on...

If they want to put us on our lane, they should reduce the number of vehicles on the road drastically... Do you think the other vehicle owners will like this as much as the next guy? I sincerely doubt it...

Yes, I have had the chance to ride a motorcycle within metro manila and in our province...in manila...the driver wasn't me...was riding in the back...but what made the ride fun was that the guy who drove made me use a helment and shoulder/knee pads...just in case. And he drove very well...no zigzagging...easy ride lang and we got to our destination, in my opinion without pissing off other road users.

In other words, this particular MC driver was very disciplined and he also shares my sentiments about undisciplined MC riders and car drivers...any kind of drivers...as long as they are undisciplined on the road.

And about your statement...my suggestion or comment/s was not encompassing...it was meant to be selective...which I will again clarify should only be done with careful planning and study...again iho...I'm not arbitrarily saying that we ban MC on all roads...only on those that their HP isn't enough (<400cc MC) and the lanes on selected roads...if its not EDSA, then it could be somewhere else.

Lighten up...and again...let's just hear each other out and hope that our ideas and suggestions somehow end up as reality.

Safe driving everyone...so happens I witnessed a 1 car/2 taxi pile up along Buendia last night...so be careful all the time when your on/off the road.

Happy Weekend to all!!!

**emersonc** · March 6th, 2011 12:16 PM

I sincerely admire the passion of both sides and the ideas that flowed in this forum/ discussion. However, we have a long way to go to solve our problems - particularly the ones discussed in this forum. Having said that dear moderator, May I request that this thread be closed so that the forumers involved can concentrate in finding a viable solution based on the exchange of ideas in this thread. Thank you very much.

**aries.domingo** · March 6th, 2011 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by eojlin

How do we beef up or strengthen traffic enforcement when we can not even flag motorcycles (traffic offenders) to stop?
^^^ we always say we can, but how? We have "too much motorcycles on the street".

Take for example a few instances below, between cars and underbones:
- number coding to regulate traffic density; most often, riders get away with this.
- beating the red light; most often, riders get away with this.
- disregarding lane or road markers; most often, riders get away with this.
There are cars who get away with these too, but compare them to the number of underbones guilty of these every single day.

We are not going to get these unruly riders' attention if we can not apprehend a significant number of them. Do you get what i mean?
It is not even possible to apprehend more than 10% of them on our busy roads - ganito sila kadami.
A number of traffic apprehensions won't stop a hundred or more of these local unruly riders from doing what they do best, breaking the law.
Hindi lang siguro ako ang nakakita nito sa mga kalsada na hindi mapahinto ng traffic enforcers ang mga riders na parang kabute kung sumingit, sumulpot, at lumabag ng batas trapiko (kahit na gamitan ng radyo). Ang dami nila talaga.

Some thoughts on why banning underbones on EDSA and C5 won't hurt Pinoy's lives so much:

1. Banks and big couriers have network of branches that allow them TO NOT REQUIRE the use of motorcycles on EDSA and C5. Vans and armoured cars are still in use, if you don't notice.
2. For the rest of the riders, one of the main reasons why we have viaducts on EDSA and C5 is for these viaducts to serve as alternatives; creating or keeping more routes for those not using EDSA and C5.
3. We can NOT expect that underbones will still proliferate and clog secondary or minor roads if ban is implemented. Pinoys are great fans of convenience, riders would most likely keep their motorcycles parked at home (or sell them) if they can't use them on EDSA and C5; and, will opt to alternatives like going back to using PUV's or car pools (this is not impossible) - it was not so long ago when riders use these. Yes, the number of riders using secondary and minor roads will be affected too.
4. We have more than enough PUV's (buses, jeepneys, and etc.).
Public transport franchises were not closely regulated (irresponsibly handled) resulting to excess (an issue still to be addressed by the government). This is one of the reasons why buses clog EDSA - we have more than enough. They take their time to get their buses filled up with commuters (THEY WAIT FOR PASSENGERS FOR TOO LONG); this is why they compete for passengers; this is also why they load and unload anywhere; nag-aagawan sila sa pasahero.
5. We will have significantly safer highways, streets, alleys, sidewalks, and even foot bridges (not the elevated ones on major roads). This alone IS ENOUGH to ban underbones on EDSA and C5.
6. Lesser deaths and injuries related to motorcycle accidents.
7. Relief from stress raised by worrying for your families and loved ones who ride motorcycles.
8. Lesser unreported and undocumented road mishaps.
9. There are more, but I will have to leave them to you guys - i've done my share.

Please don't dare raise implentation on regulations in US, Europe, Singapore, Subic, Clark, and provincial highways with the situation we, Pinoy's, have on EDSA and C5. Very different - not everything is applicable everywhere.

How do we beef up or strengthen traffic enforcement when we can not even flag motorcycles (traffic offenders) to stop?

Well said... malaki ba mawawala sa mga MC riders pag binan sila sa EDSA/C5 or in any HIGHWAY requiring minimum SAFE speed?! Kung maka-react kasi yung iba nakakagulat e. Parang laging naghahanap ng away... Parang sa forum pa lang alam mo na kung paano umasta sa kalsada. Hay...