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  1. Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    280
    #11
    i last used the atm at bdo/equitable on hemady cor aurora on aug. 4. i remember the guard was outside near me because they were remodelling the branch and there was another customer behind me. i'm stupid not to cover the keypad when i'm entering my PIN. it's possible someone saw me key-in my PIN and i stupidly left my card. very unlikely though, but this is my last conscious memory of my card.

    same day aug. 4, we decided to send our maids away since they also wanted to resign. i herded the kids to one of the upstairs rooms and stayed with them. my wife talked to the maids to terminate the employment. She checked their belongings, but at one point she allowed one of them to go upstairs to get a bag for her stuff. at that point that maid may have had the opportunity to access my wallet.

    today, aug 10, i realized my atm card was missing when i tried to withdraw. i called the bdo-equi hemady branch to check if someone had reported a lost and found card but there was none. i logged onto their website and it was there i saw that there four unauthorized withdrawals all on aug. 7.

    my bdo-equi branch gave me a report that 2 withdrawals were made at 4:55 pm at the hemady branch, then around 20 minutes later, 2 more withdrawals at the atm of bpi-family on aurora cubao. when i called these banks, it was only then i found out that none of their atms have cameras. i had to cajole the hemady manager to check their machine's records if any wrong PINs were attempted, and it was not so. the thief knew the PIN.

    my wife is quick to point to the maid, and i have to agree that she's the most likely culprit, but there's not enough proof, not even circumstantial, to warrant a conclusion that is defensible in law.

    i also called the terminated maid earlier on her cell phone. i was expecting that it would be unattended, but she answered. kinumusta ko, but i gave no hint about the theft. she sounded surprised to hear from me but didn't sound evasive. i always try to think the best of people, but i've been terribly wrong before.

    that particular atm card was a combined use personal/business account. i have no recollection of ever giving the PIN to the maid, i'm one of those careless folks who used their bday as PIN, stupid, stupid. i'm not sure if i want to file a police report for theft and violation of the access device regulation act.

    as for the banks, i'm not satisfied with the way they handled this. although they provided me with information, i would've appreciated more involvement on their part to investigate the matter, and not leave all it to me to do the leg work considering my property was stolen from their company. there wasn't even an invitation to file a formal complaint or report.

    yes, be more vigilant with your own atm cards. let my experience be a cautionary tale.

  2. Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    280
    #12
    Quote Originally Posted by gearhead View Post
    o sa card mismo?
    haha, no, i'm not that careless.

  3. Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    8,837
    #13
    ah bday pala kaya na-hack. pero ayush yan maid na yan, matalino ah

  4. Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Posts
    2,979
    #14
    mahirap yan bro! i've seen lots of atm users na careless sa pag-withdraw, as in nakikita yun pagpunch ng pin. saka dapat tanggalin na rin ng bangko yun tones ng keypads. malalaman din kasi dun kung anong number yun na-punch. also yun reciepts, wag basta-basta iiwan since makikita ng kasunod mo yun balnce ng account. malay mo ba kung holdaper yun or kidnapper. baka abangan ka sa susunod na pag-withdraw mo

  5. Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    699
    #15
    Quote Originally Posted by leolop View Post
    i last used the atm at bdo/equitable on hemady cor aurora on aug. 4. i remember the guard was outside near me because they were remodelling the branch and there was another customer behind me. i'm stupid not to cover the keypad when i'm entering my PIN. it's possible someone saw me key-in my PIN and i stupidly left my card. very unlikely though, but this is my last conscious memory of my card.

    that particular atm card was a combined use personal/business account. i have no recollection of ever giving the PIN to the maid, i'm one of those careless folks who used their bday as PIN, stupid, stupid. i'm not sure if i want to file a police report for theft and violation of the access device regulation act.
    OT: i dont think its a good idea to have your business and personal funds in the same account. one, mahirap ang accounting and two, malaki ang chance na magastos mo sa personal expenses ang business funds. but that's just me.

    BTTT: while mas madaling isipin na yung maid ang culprit, mas malaki ang chance na naiwan mo ang card mo sa atm at doon ka dinali. EPCIB ba ang atm machine? kakaiba kasi ang algorithm ng epcib atm transaction compared sa ibang banks: labas kaagad ang card before matapos ang transaction. baka nagmamadali ka noon, iniluwal kaagad ng atm machine ang card mo, at wala sa isip na ipinatong mo sa ibabaw ng atm machine ang card (i'm actually guilty of doing this on so many occasions). with most other atm machines, the atm will spew your card out at the end of the transaction, just right before handing you the cash. sa EPCIB, labas kaagad ang card right after mo ipasok.

  6. Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    699
    #16
    please allow me na dagdagan ang panghuhula:

    your maids were about to be let go so you had to rush to the atm to withdraw some money para ibigay sa kanila. pagdating sa atm, may construction, mahaba ang pila sa atm, may makulit sa likod mo, plus may guard na parang buwitreng looking over your shoulder. so you were in some sort of hurry. the atm machine unceremoniously and all-too-suddenly let your card out right after you put it in kaya in your haste, you absent-mindedly placed it on top of the machine. proceeded with the atm transaction, keyed in your pin, and got the money. then you rushed to your car and went home.

    sorry, feeling csi ako ngayon. please post if medyo "over" na ang speculations ko.

    if this did happen, jackpot ang taong nasa likod mo. magkano ba ang max withdrawal ng epcib? 20K? 40K? sa bpi kasi haggang 100K per day pwede e.

  7. Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    280
    #17
    Quote Originally Posted by badsekktor View Post
    mahirap yan bro! i've seen lots of atm users na careless sa pag-withdraw, as in nakikita yun pagpunch ng pin. saka dapat tanggalin na rin ng bangko yun tones ng keypads. malalaman din kasi dun kung anong number yun na-punch. also yun reciepts, wag basta-basta iiwan since makikita ng kasunod mo yun balnce ng account. malay mo ba kung holdaper yun or kidnapper. baka abangan ka sa susunod na pag-withdraw mo
    with most other atm machines, the atm will spew your card out at the end of the transaction, just right before handing you the cash. sa EPCIB, labas kaagad ang card right after mo ipasok.
    i've been an epcib atm account holder for 4 years now. there was a time i was required to withdraw about 3 times a week, P50,000 at a time therefore i've learned to be pretty careful. in fact i use the option not to get a receipt since it's easier to check online, and i get to leave as soon as i get the cash. i've timed myself, and for one withdrawal with no one else in line, i'm out and back to the car in around 30 seconds since my real fear is robbery.

    i like the fact that epcib atms give out the card at once, and in my practice, i put the card back in my wallet while waiting for the money to come out, which is why i find it unlikely that i left the card.

    your maids were about to be let go so you had to rush to the atm to withdraw some money para ibigay sa kanila. pagdating sa atm, may construction, mahaba ang pila sa atm, may makulit sa likod mo, plus may guard na parang buwitreng looking over your shoulder. so you were in some sort of hurry. the atm machine unceremoniously and all-too-suddenly let your card out right after you put it in kaya in your haste, you absent-mindedly placed it on top of the machine. proceeded with the atm transaction, keyed in your pin, and got the money. then you rushed to your car and went home.

    well, no. i was bringing the kids to their taekwondo session and stopped at the epcib branch. the maid was with us. i was first in line and only realized someone was behind me when i got the money. the guard was about 2 feet to my right. it was later that a decision was made to let go of the maids and that money was used in giving them their severance pay.

    the card was last used on saturday, but the culprit waited till tuesday afternoon to use it. i do find it strange that the withdrawal was made on the same atm i last withdrew in. if someone saw my PIN and i left in on saturday, the logical thing would be to withdraw funds asap.

    pondering on the delay between saturday and tuesday, i find it more logical the maid got the atm from my wallet on saturday and had an inkling on the PIN, but felt afraid or didn't know how to use it. then on tuesday someone assisted her in taking the funds. inconclusive yet worth considering is her receipt of my call and lack of evasion in her tone. i would've thought she would ignore it or get a new number if she were guilty.

    if this did happen, jackpot ang taong nasa likod mo. magkano ba ang max withdrawal ng epcib? 20K? 40K? sa bpi kasi haggang 100K per day pwede e.
    jackpot talaga at P40k, before we discovered what happened, my wife and i were pondering on calling back the maid to give her some more severance pay because she worked for us for 8 years. if she did this, she really got the last laugh.

    i've had business reverses far worse, but not a personal loss like this due to theft. bad taste in the mouth that won't go away. i've been researching to see if i can claim negligence on the part of the bank for not installing video cameras at their atms. it seems you could make a case for it in the USA because it can be argued the practice is customary, but it's the reverse here in pinas.

    i've been pondering on the idea of reporting it to the police and give them "gas money" to find and question her. ika nga, shake the tree and see if something falls out. just don't know if it's worth the aggravation.

    one of my friends related that one of their employees ran off with around P50,000. her mom unrelentingly pursued that employee till she was arrested 2 years later hiding in her province. but the cost of finding and prosecuting was far beyond what was lost in the first place. i don't have that kind of resources.

  8. Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Posts
    699
    #18
    Quote Originally Posted by leolop View Post
    well, no. i was bringing the kids to their taekwondo session and stopped at the epcib branch. the maid was with us. i was first in line and only realized someone was behind me when i got the money. the guard was about 2 feet to my right. it was later that a decision was made to let go of the maids and that money was used in giving them their severance pay.

    the card was last used on saturday, but the culprit waited till tuesday afternoon to use it. i do find it strange that the withdrawal was made on the same atm i last withdrew in. if someone saw my PIN and i left in on saturday, the logical thing would be to withdraw funds asap.

    pondering on the delay between saturday and tuesday, i find it more logical the maid got the atm from my wallet on saturday and had an inkling on the PIN, but felt afraid or didn't know how to use it. then on tuesday someone assisted her in taking the funds. inconclusive yet worth considering is her receipt of my call and lack of evasion in her tone. i would've thought she would ignore it or get a new number if she were guilty.
    hhmmm... my powers of deduction failed me once more oh well... chances are if it was indeed the maid who got it, she probably tried to withdraw saturday pa lang. pero sumasablay sa PIN kaya hindi natutuloy. siguro kapag sablay on the first try, tigil muna siya then try again later on. then on tuesday, finally (and much to your disadvantage), jumackpot siya. natyempuhan niya ang bday mo.

    on the other hand, posibleng pinitik nga ng maid ang atm card tapos na-guilty siya. so, pinlano niya ibalik sa iyo pero natatakot siya. so, since kasama siya sa atm branch na pinag-withdrawan mo, dun niya ibinalik ang atm card, more specifically sa guard. hinintay ng guard kung may mag-c-claim ng card ng monday (working day). then nung walang nag-claim, naisip niya, well swerte na lang talaga. so tuesday na siya nag-withdraw, using the PIN which he saw you enter when you last withdrew last sunday. after 4 withdrawals, medyo na-guilty na din at dun niya naisip tumigil. tama na ang nakulimbat kong 40K, baka ma-karma na.

    sorry uli. still in csi mode.


    Quote Originally Posted by leolop View Post
    i've been pondering on the idea of reporting it to the police and give them "gas money" to find and question her. ika nga, shake the tree and see if something falls out. just don't know if it's worth the aggravation.

    one of my friends related that one of their employees ran off with around P50,000. her mom unrelentingly pursued that employee till she was arrested 2 years later hiding in her province. but the cost of finding and prosecuting was far beyond what was lost in the first place. i don't have that kind of resources.
    er... not worth it. apart from coordinating with the authorities to try to locate the maid, puro circumstantial lang ang evidence mo, and weak pa at that. after that, mas sakit pa ng ulo to attend hearings. ipagdasal mo lang siya. ika nga ng mga nakakatanda, babalik din ang nawala sa iyo, multiplied pa by a factor of 7. okay na yan. mababawi mo din yan.

  9. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    4,313
    #19
    Other than the maid, do you have other suspects?

    I'm just wondering, as you are, why the withdrawal was made 3 days after you thought it was lost. And, why the thief didn't withdraw everything?


    :beer: [SIZE="1"]3138[/SIZE]

  10. Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    280
    #20
    er... not worth it. apart from coordinating with the authorities to try to locate the maid, puro circumstantial lang ang evidence mo, and weak pa at that. after that, mas sakit pa ng ulo to attend hearings. ipagdasal mo lang siya. ika nga ng mga nakakatanda, babalik din ang nawala sa iyo, multiplied pa by a factor of 7. okay na yan. mababawi mo din yan.
    beginning to agree that it's not worth it, and thanks for the thought. it's been a financially tough year, and we're just barely half way through. hope the old folks are right with the 7 fold thing.

    on a side note, it's actually possible to convict someone on purely circumstantial evidence but it needs to be an unbroken chain of evidence which leads to a conviction beyond reasonable doubt. i don't even have enough for probable cause.

    Other than the maid, do you have other suspects?

    I'm just wondering, as you are, why the withdrawal was made 3 days after you thought it was lost. And, why the thief didn't withdraw everything?
    no other real suspects, unfortunately. yes, it's strange they waited 3 days, and i'm only thankful they didn't withdraw more. there was much more in that account.

    on the other hand, posibleng pinitik nga ng maid ang atm card tapos na-guilty siya. so, pinlano niya ibalik sa iyo pero natatakot siya. so, since kasama siya sa atm branch na pinag-withdrawan mo, dun niya ibinalik ang atm card, more specifically sa guard. hinintay ng guard kung may mag-c-claim ng card ng monday (working day). then nung walang nag-claim, naisip niya, well swerte na lang talaga. so tuesday na siya nag-withdraw, using the PIN which he saw you enter when you last withdrew last sunday. after 4 withdrawals, medyo na-guilty na din at dun niya naisip tumigil. tama na ang nakulimbat kong 40K, baka ma-karma na.
    a cop being interviewed on tv once said that normally, the simplest story is the correct one (as proven in the movie hot fuzz). you ought to write a book.

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Funds stolen from my ATM! banks not much help