Technical possibilities

[Monodon]

Just a thought mga tsikoteers. a car's engine cannot make use of all the available horsepower because of the many accessory components it also has to power like the compressor, power steering..etc. it would be great if auto designers could find a was to make this components electrical so as not to draw power from the engine anymore.Any comments? ;)

[impulzz]

think of it this way... if the designers made the compressor, steering pump, water pump have their own electric motors... it would be added electrical load...thus they will have to install bigger batteries and higher capacity alternators... so ganun din lalaki batteries at alternators eh di yung HP ng engine will be used to generate more electricity for the extra load and to pull the weight heavier batteries.

pero one thing na naisip nila para less load sa engine ay gawing electric yung radiator fan malaki ang igagaan ng engine. yung ibang pang karera dito sa atin convert nila...mga owner at box-type lancers.

[jim]

meron nang electronic aircon compressor. ewan ko lang kung anong cars na may gamit nito. :-)

[niky]

The Toyota Prius uses a separately powered compressor (not belt driven.)

There are cars out now (don't know which brands, but they're there) with electric power-steering (versus the hydraulic systems common today). Testing has shown a 0.5% increase in fuel economy.

Electric water pumps are an available upgrade for older engines, and I suppose they'll work for newer ones, too.

I think the Prius has all accessories running off the charging system associated with its electrical motor/charger, but I'm not so sure.

[orly_andico]

niky,

the honda city has an all-electric power steering system. the mazda3 has a (partially) electric system, i don't know how "partially" works though...

in general electric steering is on smaller cars because the available power to turn a big car isn't there, at least not until 24V car electrics become more common.

[badkuk]

why the trend towards electric powered stuff? mas tumatagal ba? cheaper to build? mas tipid sa gas?

[OTEP]

The only thing holding back the proliferation of electric driven devices on vehicles is that it will require a higher voltage electrical system.

Manufacturers are not ready to face liability in case someone gets electrocuted. A problem not faced by current 12v systems.

[HBOY]

ayoko ng ganyan.. takot sa baha yang mga yan!.. ehehe...:D

sa akin. .pinagaaralan ko lang yung effect if ever i do remove the engine driven fan and use two bosch aux fans... hehehe...

[orly_andico]

badkuk,

mas efficient kasi ang electric, because a mechanical fan or pump or whatnot is always drawing load even when not in use (friction losses) while an electric device is only drawing load when in use. also, it is mechanically simpler and lasts longer because you can design motor drive electronics which don't stress the motor. the problem is, takot sa baha. :P

OTEP,

actually 24V will not present a higher shock hazard than 12V. Mababa pa rin yun. And car manufacturers are already dealing with the electrocution issue, e.g. the Prius battery pack is 240V yata (!) so the power wires are differently colored so that the EMT's don't get fried when they use the "jaws of life" to cut open the car.

[niky]

Originally posted by orly_andico
badkuk,

mas efficient kasi ang electric, because a mechanical fan or pump or whatnot is always drawing load even when not in use (friction losses) while an electric device is only drawing load when in use. also, it is mechanically simpler and lasts longer because you can design motor drive electronics which don't stress the motor. the problem is, takot sa baha. :P

OTEP,

actually 24V will not present a higher shock hazard than 12V. Mababa pa rin yun. And car manufacturers are already dealing with the electrocution issue, e.g. the Prius battery pack is 240V yata (!) so the power wires are differently colored so that the EMT's don't get fried when they use the "jaws of life" to cut open the car.

clap clap clap! Ang galing mo, sir orly!

True... it's not really just the voltage that hurts... it's the amount of amperage that will kill. :p

There is enough power in electric systems to power steering racks on larger vehicles.

[OTEP]

24V is already an existing system. Manufacturers are looking into 48V++ systems to power all the electrical components simultaneously.

A 240V battery pack is not much of a problem in the Prius because you don't have to tap into it when installing electrical stuff on the vehicle.

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by Monodon
Just a thought mga tsikoteers. a car's engine cannot make use of all the available horsepower because of the many accessory components it also has to power like the compressor, power steering..etc. it would be great if auto designers could find a was to make this components electrical so as not to draw power from the engine anymore.Any comments? ;)

Like the rest of the people has said.. this is nothing new but the thought is in the right direction.

Aside from what has been mentioned, some street & legal drag racers (using street legal cars) have an electric clutch attached to their alternators (similar to the one used in aircon compressors) to temporarily disconnect it from the engine.

Other devices are underdrive pulley systems which makes the accesories (like water pump, alternator, etc) turn slower, hence use less mechanical power from the engine. This is race & street proven to work.

[afrasay]

IMO it would be more economical, for both the consumer and manufacturer and more reliable to run the alternator, power steering and aircon compressor using the engine. Imagine your battery going dead together with your power steering, water pump, etc.

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by afrasay
IMO it would be more economical, for both the consumer and manufacturer and more reliable to run the alternator, power steering and aircon compressor using the engine. Imagine your battery going dead together with your power steering, water pump, etc.

actually if your battery is dead, you can't start the engine anyway so the same goes for the power steering, waterpump, etc.

This is especially true if you are driving an automatic tranny car.

LOL!

[afrasay]

there's always the call TULAK !!! :D same is true that when your belts goes so as the PS, alternator or water pump whatever is the configuration.

[pink_cadillac]

Its not the voltage that kills you, its the current and the frequency.

Nikola Tesla was running 250,000 volts in between coils using his body.

The frequency by which the current was being transmitted on the surface of his skin and clothes didn't interfere with his nervous and cardiovascular systems.

[pink_cadillac]

The on-demand action of electrical motors allows conservation of power and active modulation of motorspeeds as required by a specific component.

A higher capacity alternator does not necessarily mean it has to be bigger or heavier, nor does a better battery have to be assume the same logical progression. Storing unused energy in a battery is still better than losing it to heat and unnecessary motion.

In fact alternators produce a surplus of power that is wasted.

"Semi-electric" or active servo power steering systems are mostly stability control mechanisms that ease off the power steering at high speeds creating a tighter driving feeling of the front wheels.

Electric radiator fans are mostly a function of mechanics in front wheel drive cars. In fact, new cars using a rear-wheel drive layout, still have fans connected to the engine. Why waste excess kinetic energy?

[niky]

The beauty of hybrid systems is that there is no need of an alternator. The electric motor IS the alternator.

So in effect, you're not running the alternator, power-steering and AC off the battery, you're running the power-steering and AC off of the electric motor and the battery.

As for mechanical fans, a lot of forum members at my other forum are changing over to electric motor radiator fans. They can keep a constant (high) speed even during idling, and are apparently more energy efficient. Even if you have excess kinetic energy at the crank, any added complication will still create drag on the crank, just like pulley driven AC and PS.

I think that's why CVT transmissions rock... they remove a lot of the drag caused by torque converter systems... this gives them fuel economy comparable to full manuals.

[Monodon]

wow! nice input tsikoteers.i think ghosthunter is right. at least technology is moving in the right direction.i hope to see the day more horsepower makes it to the wheels.