Cryonegic Intake System - Going Beyond Cold Air Intakes

[ghosthunter]

http://www.designengineering.com/

[ghosthunter]

Cools air intake, fuel and intercooler

[ghosthunter]

Downside... Its freakingly expensive!

5lb tank & solenoid kit $369.95
Air Intake kit $149.95 (requires tank & solenoid kit)
Fuel bar kit $123.95 (requires tank & solenoid kit)
Intercooler kit $79.95 (requires tank & solenoid kit)

[kinyo]

i guess the cryogen part is what's inside the tank ... liquid carbon dioxide?

another guess ... this stuff is only for racing because that cryogen in the tank won't really last long if its going to be used to cool the intake air

[yebo]

psssst! liquid CO2 does not exist. CO2 has only 2 phases, solid (dry ice) and gas.

[ghosthunter]

yebo actually highly compressed CO2 is liquid. So carbon dioxide has three phases: gas, liquid & solid. The problem of using CO2 as a refrigerant is its tendency of producing some amounts of dry-ice when quickly expanding from liquid to gas.

[ghosthunter]

Originally posted by kinyo
i guess the cryogen part is what's inside the tank ... liquid carbon dioxide?

another guess ... this stuff is only for racing because that cryogen in the tank won't really last long if its going to be used to cool the intake air

the system is used in the same way as a nitrous oxide kit. Its only activated when more power is needed. Even NOS doesn't last very long, just enough to make a difference.

[wildthing]

question....why not use liquid nitrogen instead???....its cheap, available and would only mix in the air when it volatilize (relatively safe)....we use this to transport vaccines sometimes.....CIGI sells it.

my 2 cents.

[ghosthunter]

there are also nitrous oxide systems used to cool down intercoolers & the like. But using pure liquid nitrogen will result in frozen engine parts that might crack apart... hence, LN2 is too cold.

[Karding]

expensive nga yan, they also offer those for I/C. IMHO, I'd rather use the water "Sprayer Kit," less expensive pa. Kapag nga nag lo-long drive ako and stops for gas, nilalagayan ko na lang ng ice cube yung I/C ko :hihihi:

[chieffy]

parang may nabasa nga ako dry ice(solid CO2) yung ginagamit ng iba...cheaper pero kailangan mo pa magpa fabricate ng extra tube with bigger diameter than your air intake tube....

[kinyo]

speaking of cryogens, hindi nga ako familiar sa characteristics ng CO2 but i once worked with liquid helium and liquid nitrogen which were used to cool superconductors ... the liquid helium is actually a very thick white gas ... the liquid nitrogen do appear as liquid but would rapidly evaporate when exposed to atmosphere

indeed both liquids are very cold, though helium is cooler ... in fact, the nitrogen was actually used to keep the helium cold ... without nitrogen, the helium will evaporate faster .. it is helium's temperature that is required for superconducting

once i poured a liquid nitrogen in a styrofoam cup, then i immersed some water contained in a small plastic bag ... the water froze in a few seconds ...

i'm not sure if liquid helium or nitrogen could ever be used in a car because, being too cold, they are not easy to handle ... although they are normally not under pressure inside a dewar, they quickly evaporate when there is a leak, and the dewars, of course, uses the best thermal insulation available, vacuum ... i once received an empty dewar because the helium leaked during transport

[wildthing]

But you won't actually use the nitrogen naman to any engine part...I'm thinking of some sort of an independent "radiator" that contains liquid nitrogen in it...then the air passes through it as it is sucked or pushed to the air-intake of the carburator...presto...cold-air which carries more oxygen in it....

just my 2 cents.

[ghosthunter]

liquid nitrogen will freeze the metal of that "radiator", making it vulnerable to shattering. Not to mention the complex insulation & storage required to keep it cold & liquid when not used.

[kinyo]

Carbon Dioxide :
Carbon dioxide (CO2) is a colourless gas having a faint, sharp odour and a sour taste; it is a minor component of the Earth's atmosphere (about 3 volumes in 10,000), formed in combustion of carbon-containing materials, in fermentation, and in respiration of animals and employed by plants in the photosynthesis of carbohydrates. The presence of the gas in the atmosphere keeps some of the radiant energy received by the Earth from being returned to space, thus producing the so-called greenhouse effect. Industrially, it is recovered for numerous diverse applications from flue gases, as a by-product of the preparation of hydrogen for synthesis of ammonia, from limekilns, and from other sources.

Carbon dioxide was recognized as a gas different from others early in the 17th century by a Belgian chemist, Jan Baptist van Helmont, who observed it as a product of both fermentation and combustion. It liquefies upon compression to 75 kilograms per square centimetre (1,071 pounds per square inch) at 31 C (87.4 F) or to 16-24 kg per sq cm (230-345 lb per sq in.) at -23 to -12 C (-10 to 10 F). By the mid-20th century, most carbon dioxide was sold as the liquid. If the liquid is allowed to expand to atmospheric pressure, it cools and partially freezes to a snowlike solid called Dry Ice that sublimes (passes directly into vapour without melting) at -78.5 C (-109.3 F) at the pressure of the normal atmosphere.

At ordinary temperatures, carbon dioxide is quite unreactive; above 1,700 C (3,100 F) it partially decomposes into carbon monoxide and oxygen. Hydrogen or carbon also convert it to carbon monoxide at high temperatures. Ammonia reacts with carbon dioxide under pressure to form ammonium carbamate, then urea, an important component of fertilizers and plastics. Carbon dioxide is slightly soluble in water (1.79 volumes per volume at 0 C and atmospheric pressure, larger amounts at higher pressures), forming a weakly acidic solution.

Carbon dioxide is used as a refrigerant, in fire extinguishers, for inflating life rafts and life jackets, blasting coal, foaming rubber and plastics, promoting the growth of plants in greenhouses, immobilizing animals before slaughter, and in carbonated beverages.

Ignited magnesium continues to burn in carbon dioxide, but the gas does not support the combustion of most materials. Prolonged exposure of humans to concentrations of 5 percent carbon dioxide may cause unconsciousness and death.

**********

so carbon dioxide can be liquid under pressure and at -23C (250 Kelvin!)
nitrogen is liquid at 14 Kelvin
helium is liquid at 3 Kelvin

so compared to nitrogen or helium, liquid carbon dioxide is sooo hot! ... now i'm not sure if liquid carbon dioxide can even qualify as cryogen :confused: