Diesel Calibration: Central Diesel vs Betan Technique

[jacorb_88]

Pajero 4M40

I went to Central Diesel this weekend and to Betan Technique this morning.This is the most objective I could possibly present their diagnostic service.

Central Diesel (QC Ave)
Mechanic: Hard-starting ho?
Me: There was a time ho na nag-hard-start sya after several days layoff. Nag-hard-start, then palyado, mausok, after few seconds namatay. 2 times na nag-ganon. Pero nung nag-start na sya, okay na sya.
<Started Pajero, popped the hood, accelerated, big cloud of black smoke>
Mechanic: Kelangan i-calibrate pump, tapos palitan din ang nozzel tips.

Betan Technique (Makati)
Mechanic: Ano hong problema?
Me: There was a time ho na nag-hard-start sya after several days layoff. Nag-hard-start, then palyado, mausok, after few seconds namatay. 2 times na nag-ganon. Pero nung nag-start na sya, okay na sya.
Mechanic: Pero kamusta naman ho nung nag-start na sya? Nag-hard-starting pa ho ba?
Me: Hindi na naman. Okay na naman.
Mechanic: Kamusta ho power?
Me: Okay naman. Hindi mo naman mapapansin or masasabi na nag-loss of power na.
Mechanic: Meron lang ho hangin na nag-buildup dahil sa ilang araw na hindi nagamit. Tapos ho sabi nyo naman okay pa naman power. So, hindi naman ho kelangan ayusin pa ang pump.
Me: At saka mausok din. Pa-check kung ano kelangan gawin.
<Started Pajero, popped the hood, accelerated, big cloud of black smoke>
<Removed air-filter, accelerated again, big cloud of black smoke again>
<Removed oil level and oil filler cap to check leaks and blow-by. Seems okay.>
<Removed hose from turbo, accelerated again, no black smoke>
Mechanic: Sir, ito ho ang problema. Kelangan nyo muna paayos ang turbo nyo kasi yung turbo nagdadala ng langis at sumasama sa combustion kaya maitim ang usok. Hindi ho natin pwedeng palitan agad ang nozzle tips nyo kasi ho pag may kasamang langis eh uusok talaga, kahit palitan pa natin ang tips. Kaya ho, paayos nyo muna turbo then balik ho kayo dito para check natin condition. Palitan na rin ho natin ang air filter and fuel filter.

I would like to think that both of them could do calibration service at par with each other, but based on the above, one could really see the kind of service each of them provides to their customers.

[XTO]

Mabilis pala sa Central eh...........saan? kahit ako if ever kailanganin ko Denso or Betan

[mark_t]

Napa check mo na ba turbo mo, what is the diagnosis?.

You could really see the kind of service each of them provides to their customers after you have verified the diagnosis.

Pero maganda experience mo kasi masasabi natin na wala pa checklist na ginawa si dieseldude
para sa mechanics nya. This is something he should look into to provide a better failure analysis procedure. Kailangan kasi i standardize nya para kahit sino naka duty sa
tindahan ay pare pareho ang service na makukuha ng mga customers.

Ang tawag namin dito ay "SHOWTIME".

And to the mechanic who provided you the diagnosis dapat i post mo pangalan nya para me
recall. He could be a promising young star, eventually he would want to run his own
independent shop. Atleast kilala na natin sya. Pero I find the filter change uncalled for.
Meron siya "showtime" and I like it. It all add to the service you know.

[4JGtootsie]

Sir balitaan ninyo po kami on what happened.
What is your mileage?
Central Diesel repairs injection pumps, injectors and turbos.
If turbo ang problema then Central Diesel should have given its recommendation.

[yapoy86]

make sure that the turbo is really leaking oil.. most of the time the oil coming from the turbo is the oil mist from the PCV.. sometimes due to intense turbo boost, it can suck oil mist from the pcv, the oil then collects in your intercooler then to your intake resulting to black smoke...

have your intake, turbo intercooler and exhaust cleaned

[4JGtootsie]

Sir 4M40 black smoke at hindi white smoke?
Mileage?

[4JGtootsie]

Sir Jacorb did you post this on 08-01-2006?

"arl0011,

i had my ride serviced at betan. initially, they replaced nozzle tips then there was still black smoke emitting. Then they calibrated injection pump. That's it, no more black smoke. As for the black smoke during sudden acceleration, it is a bit normal for diesel as I learned. Betan meant not to cripple your pockets by changing everything at once. If it can be 'treated' by administering the first level fix, then good, it will not cost you an arm and leg. But if it still so requires for second level fix, that is, injection calibration, no choice but to do it. That's how they normally address the problem in major contrast to most shops.

Recently, I had my ride checked due to high consumption plus there was smell of diesel all over. The calibration shop assessed that they need to replace repair kit due to leak. I brought it to Betan to have the repair kit replaced. And guess what, the same statement they made during my first visit at Betan, they need to look at the problem and see if there is really a need to replace the repair kit. Cost me 200 pesos for the leak due to washer, that would have been 6,000 to another calibration shop which gave me the first prognosis."

Maybe this is the reason they are suspecting the turbo. Sila kasi gumawa ng pump at hindi Central Diesel.

[jacorb_88]

4JGTootsie,

Back in 2006, that was for my Pajero 2.5 4D56. My ride is now 2.8 4M40. Actually, the kind of service I got from Betan before made me felt comfortable with them. I just wanted to try out Central Diesel as they did a good job on my sis's-in-law Pajero 2.5 plus they're closer to our place.


Anyways, this is the latest:

Made several phone calls based on comments from this thread and some other threads from other sites. Here are the gist from their comments:

Raymond Sarol: He said, normally black smoke dont come from Turbo. Turbos are pretty tough to break under normal driving condition. But I insisted that when the pipe from Turbo was removed, there was no smoke coming out and it was quite noticeable. Then, he advised me to see Big Thumb shop and look for Danilo to have my turbo checked.

Central Diesel: Yes, I gave them another shot I saw from their ad that they also repair turbo. This time, the guy from the other line provided tons of information about turbo repairs based on actual scenario. He said from their experience, there is little oil being sucked out even for bnew turbo. As long as, his actual words were "hindi bumubulwak" ang oil, it should be okay. He actually had 1st hand info because he replaced one car with bnew turbo from casa and showed a little trace of oil. He wanted to set the expectations before they service my ride, that is, oil from turbo may still be present after oil seals are replaced.

Of course, I won't take any info at face value considering the cost if I had my turbo serviced without my 1st hand scrutiny and assessment. Based on instructions from the net, I did inspect the turbo for traces of oil on compressor end of the turbo, checked the fins for damages and clearance play. Started the car, and checked if there was oil gushing out from the turbo. Everything turned out negative.

It was at this time that I remembered yapoy's comments that it could be that turbo sucks out oil from PVC. I cleaned out all the turbo pipings (as in lahat lahat including where the mini aux fan is attached, yung parang radiator looking) and pressure-sprayed it with kerosene to loosen the grime. Sprayed the intake manifold with carb cleaner. Finish off the pipings with Tide ultra. On assembly, I did not attach the hose yet to the intake manifold. Rev at high RPM to induce the turbo, blowing excess water in the process. It was quite a lot considering I have them sitting under the sun for quite sometime. Have I not done this, water would have gone straight into the manifold. Since I am at it already, I changed the air filter and fuel filter as well. Btw, the night before, I cleaned my tailpipe as well to remove carbon build-up.

My aim was to isolate the problem and once I did, I'll be able to provide better information to the mechanic. To my amazement, there was no black smoke anymore. I did not attach the PCV hose for the time being.

Now, I am making myself Oil-Catch tank where I will hook-up the PCV before it goes to air intake. This will ensure minimal oil being sucked-up and being forced by the turbo into the intake manifold.

All these thru DIY, took my time but had a pretty nice time doing it.

Thanks for all the help!

Oh, had I not been confident with Central Diesel, I won't called them back. If not for their 2nd advise, this might end up differently and would set my pocket back couple of thousands.

[4JGtootsie]

We undersdtand sir. We are thanking you also for giving as insights on how to improve our interaction with customers and even non customers.
With hard times come 2009 we would need all the comments and suggestions on how to improve our systems and hopefully survive the crunch.
I am Ramon and if you any problems with your diesel may it be electronic, turbo, injector and injection pump whether VE, Inline, CR or even PT (Pressre/Time)pumps just give us a visit.

[rion]

I'm no Mechanic but I think feeding oil alone on the intake does not give you "the black smoke". feeding oil is just like feeding fuel... it could be other reasons like compression, pump, carbon buildup, Air filter, etc...

you can use boost gauge to see if you are getting enough boost... Turbos are pretty tough to break indeed. their weakness is excess heat... had a ride with a worn out turbo though, detecting them is through white smoke on idle after driving it hard on highways... this is because oil leak from the turbo goes out to the exhaust cooking the oil out from the exhaust pipe's heat, producing white smoke and awful smell...

Oil catch can?

maganda ito o..




a simple can with motrocycle air filter on top...

[jacorb_88]

oil leak from turbo may come out from exhaust side of the turbo or from compressor side. if it comes out from compressor side, it is then pushed into intake manifold burning the oil in the process, thus causing the blue-to-black smoke. same effect if your oil makes its way thru piston ring which burns the oil together with fuel and air.

as i have mentioned, air filter was removed, hence, air filter factor negative. no oil splatter when oil filler cap and oil dipstick, hence, no 1st level sign which suggests losing compression. before calibration+nozzle replacements, all other factors must be taken out from the equation first as much as possible to give more warrant on getting into calibration+nozzle replacements. carbon buildup taken out by cleaning exhause pipes + oil buildup through the turbo pipelines going into intake manifold.

anyways, turbo is A-okay, nozzles are A-okay. As of now, no unsightly blue-to-black smoke coming out even at 4k RPM.

rion, where did you get those oil-catch tank pics? are they available locally? i made DIY oil-catch tank myself, of course, not quite close to those pics aesthetically =D

thanks.

[rion]

they are DIY, not mine though. mine looks crap.

there are oil catch can available localy but too pricey...

[erwinas]

mga sir.. i have this nissan turbo patrol 91 model.. pag nag start cya nag cho choke pag nka idle at malamig pa makina.. maitim din usok... may idea kayo kung magkno ang pa calibrate??

[4JGtootsie]

Sir SD33 engine ninyo?
Tuwing umaga lang?

[ronnie macayan]

me problem ang kia carnival na nabili ko model 2002 galing ng korea crdi 145 high power direct injection. ung #4 na wire papunta sa nozzle tip nya ay nasunog pinalitan namin kaso mahina syang umarangkada at maitim
ang usok..kailangan po bang linisin nozzle nya electronic po sya

[Dieseldude]

me problem ang kia carnival na nabili ko model 2002 galing ng korea crdi 145 high power direct injection. ung #4 na wire papunta sa nozzle tip nya ay nasunog pinalitan namin kaso mahina syang umarangkada at maitim
ang usok..kailangan po bang linisin nozzle nya electronic po sya

Dalhin mo sa Kia or sa Delphi Diesel service workshop yan. Delphi ang common rail system ng 2002 Carnival. Lalaki lang ang problem mo kung susubukan gawin ng mechanic na kulang sa hustong training.

[hiromi_777a]

Mga Sir, ask ko lang wala na po kasi ang Betan sa P. Ocampo street, Makati. Read somewhere lumipat na daw ito sa Delpan street, Manila? Anyone knows the new location and contact number? Hindi po kasi updated yung nasa website nila. TIA

[chorizo]

^^ Same question. Does anyone have the tel. no. of Betan? would appreciate if someone can post the new address and contact number. Thanks