Carshop for Civic 1994 EFI engine problems

[obiwan]

hi there,

my first post!

can anyone recommend a trustworthy shop that can properly diagnose/repair "older" EFI egines?

my 1.6L Esi 1994 civic (only 80,000kms) dies once in a while , even if the idling is high...i have replaced the spark plugs, fuel filter, timing belt, and some leaky gaskets....

since i am not an expert with EFI engines, some have suggested that it may be my air intakes, oxygen sensors, etc....(i am not too familiar with those parts)

so i have hoping to find a reasonably priced shop that can fix these problems...taking it to the CASA is my LAST option....hehe

thanks!!


PS- i live near the quezon city, pasig area...

[Trials Jpn.]

Hi obiwan,

Dati akong pro mechanic dito sa Japan pero ngayon ay bihira na lamang akong tumatanggap repair jobs. Nagaayos pa rin ako ngayon pero pang personal lamang. Marami na rin akong experience sa EFI at bihira lang itong masira. Bihira magloko ang ECU kaya hindi na natin ito paguusapan. Minsan ay nagloloko ang idle speed sensor, thermo sensor, at minsan naman ay yung mga models na meyroon air flow unit na akala ay EFI ang may problema pero air flow pala (mostly for older model Crown and Legacy).

Base sa experience ko tungkol sa EFI ay ang pinakamadalas na problema ay yung maduming throttle body lamang. Kadalasan ay naguumpisang magloko ang performance ng EFI aroung 60000 kms to 100000kms. dipende sa condisyon ng tinatakbuhan ng kotse.

Ganito ang ginagawa namin sa paglinis ng EFI: Tanggalin ang air duct sa EFI, tignan ang condition ng throttle body at flap. Kapag madumi ay makikita mong mag gum/carbon/sludge build-up sa flap at maitim ang throttle body. Full open ang flap at tignan din ang gum build-up sa EFI body. Kung gusto mong subukang linisin ang EFI ay ganito ang maaari mong gawin. Konting ingat at kung hindi ka sigurado ay mahusay na ipaayos mo ito sa pro na sanay sa EFI.

Youll be needing a can of caburator cleaner, a clean rag and CRC/WD-40. Spray the carb cleaner on your rag and open throttle flap. Clean the flap with the rag and concentrate on the sides. You want to get those sludge build-up off the flap. Wipe clean the throttle body. You will see some holes that goes to the sensors before the flap, you can spray the carb cleaner in the throttle body but it will be best not to spray the chemical inside the holes for the sensors because some chemicals can harm the plastics and rubber inside the sensors. You can cover the holes with your rag when spraying in the chemical.
Start your engine, some cars wont start if you dont put the airduct back especially for cars that have the air flow meter unit (the small unit/box found near the airfilter box or near the EFI and connected to the air duct (it has a connector so you cant miss it). Turn off your engine when its hot, remove air duct from EFI, open flap, spray carb cleaner inside EFI body like you mean it. Pray crc/wd-40 on the flap, reinstall airduct, start engine ). At first, your engine will have difficulties starting because of the chemical, just pump the gas until it starts.
Sometimes if the EFI is really filthy, we do it this way: While the engine is running we spray the chemical (carb cleaner) inside the EFI. You have to flick the the throttle open to prevent the engine from stopping while spraying the chemical (try to avoid the holes for the sensors when your doing this). If you want to clean the valves, you can also use valve cleaner or engine conditioner) the procedure is the same. REMEMBER not to over rev your engine because these chemicals will go inside the engine and will also clean the valves from carbon build-up and sludges and over revving can cause too much friction (less lubrication because of the chem) and can fck up your valves.
After doing this, remove spark plugs, clean them check for gap clearance if the plugs are old. The smoke from the chemicals can give you a bad asthma so please try to stay away from the smoke.

Civics EFI sensors are not notorious for breaking up and if your car doesnt have these problems (sensors, ECU, etc) and your EFI is just dirty, it will solve your problem.

PS: check the condition of the airduct for cracks, check vaccum hoses, and if you want, kill the EGR.

TY.

[chris_d]

With regards to the post on how to clean the throttle body, does this procedure help resolve minor rough idling/idle drop/vibratio n(vibrates a lot esp. when going in reverse) problems? (vehicle mileage is at 68,5xx km, a/t) and afaik the tb/intake manifold has not yet been cleaned.

I've got all the materials I need, I just want to know if this would really help.

[Trials Jpn.]

With regards to the post on how to clean the throttle body, does this procedure help resolve minor rough idling/idle drop/vibratio n(vibrates a lot esp. when going in reverse) problems? (vehicle mileage is at 68,5xx km, a/t) and afaik the tb/intake manifold has not yet been cleaned.

I've got all the materials I need, I just want to know if this would really help.

If the EFI is just filthy, I think this will solve your problem. Ive repaired thousands of cars and hundreds of them had the same filthy EFI problem and it worked for those cars. Many of those cars have major rough idling/idle drop/vibration problems, and we dont usually open up the whole EFI unit and the ECU or send the EFI for major overhaul unless it shows up in the diag test or from the engine trouble indicator lamp and often times the problems are very obvious that we just change the parts.
Just be easy on the revs while spraying the chemicals because too much can damage the turbos.

[sirkosero]

totoo ba na nakakasira daw para sa throttle body ang carb cleaner? kasi may nagsabi sakin na dapat daw silicone spray ang ginagamit...

[BoEinG_747]

Carshop for Civic 1994 EFI engine problems sir obiwan,
try nyo ang Speedy fix search nyo na lang dito ang complete address and contact number.dami nag papagawa ng honda civic doon

[baiskee]

Carshop for Civic 1994 EFI engine problems sir obiwan,
try nyo ang Speedy fix search nyo na lang dito ang complete address and contact number.dami nag papagawa ng honda civic doon

korek! SPEEDYFIX. he's also a member here in tsikot. sa may santolan lang sila, halos tapat ng wheel gallery. ;)

[theveed]

sirkosero: The throttle body is made of metal, carb cleaner will not damage it, ang issue, as posted by Trials, are the sensors, rubber and small holes that you should avoid spraying.

[obiwan]

Hi obiwan,

Dati akong pro mechanic dito sa Japan pero ngayon ay bihira na lamang akong tumatanggap repair jobs. Nagaayos pa rin ako ngayon pero pang personal lamang. Marami na rin akong experience sa EFI at bihira lang itong masira. Bihira magloko ang ECU kaya hindi na natin ito paguusapan. Minsan ay nagloloko ang idle speed sensor, thermo sensor, at minsan naman ay yung mga models na meyroon air flow unit na akala ay EFI ang may problema pero air flow pala (mostly for older model Crown and Legacy).


TY.

Hi Trials!

THANK YOU very much for the very detailed explanantion...I wish I had the courage to do this myself but since I am afraid my wife will kill me if i mess it up...I now have to find a shop that can do this. At least now when they work on it, I can give some "advice" on how to do it...

Oh ya, btw, this is what is WEIRD, the engine dies mostly when i am MAKING A TURN or a U-TURN!!!! but it starts naman again when i re start it....

Weird huh???

Also, I took it to SPEEDY FIX, unfortunately since the engine was running fine, they could only recommend to replace the fuel pump....they could not give me a sure solution since the engine was not dying while i was at the shop .. ...all of a sudden my engine was behaving nicely..LOL. They said they could try cleaning it for P1,350 but could not guarantee it would solve the problem since it was really running smoothly with no rough or low idling......

anyway, will start looking for other shops that specializa in Honda EFI engines...

cheers! and thanks again also to the others who posted here......this is a great site!!!

[obiwan]

Carshop for Civic 1994 EFI engine problems sir obiwan,
try nyo ang Speedy fix search nyo na lang dito ang complete address and contact number.dami nag papagawa ng honda civic doon

Thanks Boeing, unfortunately they could not say for sure what the problem was since my engine was running fine when i took to them....they say maybe the fuel pump (electric type)....but a taiwan made one costs 2K!! have to canvass for a japan one now in case that is really the problem....

[sirkosero]

sirkosero: The throttle body is made of metal, carb cleaner will not damage it, ang issue, as posted by Trials, are the sensors, rubber and small holes that you should avoid spraying.

thanks for the clarification. yun pala yun.... akala ko talaga hindi pwede ang carb cleaner eh...

[ian_rex]

thanks for the clarification. yun pala yun.... akala ko talaga hindi pwede ang carb cleaner eh...

ako din e. pero no choice ako, kasi lately rough idling na naman yung 1.5LXi ko. after spraying the carb cleaner to the throttle body, medyo umayos naman sya.

[Trials Jpn.]

Hi Trials!

THANK YOU very much for the very detailed explanantion...I wish I had the courage to do this myself but since I am afraid my wife will kill me if i mess it up...I now have to find a shop that can do this. At least now when they work on it, I can give some "advice" on how to do it...

Oh ya, btw, this is what is WEIRD, the engine dies mostly when i am MAKING A TURN or a U-TURN!!!! but it starts naman again when i re start it....

Weird huh???

Also, I took it to SPEEDY FIX, unfortunately since the engine was running fine, they could only recommend to replace the fuel pump....they could not give me a sure solution since the engine was not dying while i was at the shop .. ...all of a sudden my engine was behaving nicely..LOL. They said they could try cleaning it for P1,350 but could not guarantee it would solve the problem since it was really running smoothly with no rough or low idling......

anyway, will start looking for other shops that specializa in Honda EFI engines...

cheers! and thanks again also to the others who posted here......this is a great site!!!

If I remember it right, the EFI on some older Honda engines the power loss is caused by PS when doing slow tight turns taht can cause the engine to stall. And if my memory doesnt fail me, I remember that I did several repairs like that. There is a vac for idling for the AC, PS, lights. I remember cleaning, replacing and even changing damaged hoses. Im certain that some older Festivas have this funny sensors. To sum it up, if your EFI is working good, you may not notice other minor performance deficiencies. If your mechanic cant locate the problem, you can PM me datas of your car and I can look it up in the service manual or ask my buddies in my old workplace or my buddies at Honda.

[garyq]

If I remember it right, the EFI on some older Honda engines the power loss is caused by PS when doing slow tight turns taht can cause the engine to stall. And if my memory doesnt fail me, I remember that I did several repairs like that. There is a vac for idling for the AC, PS, lights. I remember cleaning, replacing and even changing damaged hoses. Im certain that some older Festivas have this funny sensors. To sum it up, if your EFI is working good, you may not notice other minor performance deficiencies. If your mechanic cant locate the problem, you can PM me datas of your car and I can look it up in the service manual or ask my buddies in my old workplace or my buddies at Honda.

I second this. When turning the pump for the Power Steering delivers more hydraulic fluid to the rack&pinion which can cause the engine to stall. If you check the electronic diagram of a Honda EG (92-96) there is a switch (sensor) installed in-line on the PS hose going to the r&p. This is a pressure sensor which gives a signal to the ECU (to idle up) when more fluid pressure is needed by the rack&pinion thorugh the PS pump. This might be something you can check

[Trials Jpn.]

Hi guys,
Im just having second toughts if I should give tips on repairs because as we all know mechanics are like doctors and every doctor has his own style and his own way of treating a patient. When I was young, my father also repaired and restored cars and I also have seen private mechanics and mechanics from Casa when I was in the Philippines. I learned and became a pro mechanic here in Japan so my style may be very different. I worked for a semi-dealer company where Im the only foreigner and made it to be one of the top mechs in that company before I resigned. While working for that company, I also trained doing crashed, water damaged car restoration for another company so I learned a bit of panel beating and painting also but I also learned how the car auctions work so I decided to go solo and that is the reason why I only do my cars. My foriener buddies also trained me how to chop cars and bikes so basically Im a jack of all trade and a master of none and since I try to do things the cheapest way, my style may be a bit odd for some.
Back in my old work place we repair cars like hot cakes. Everything is done very fast (time is money), I remember since Im was one of the fastest member that the company made me do difficult jobs in doubles (I can change a timing belt for Celciors/Lexus/Cimas/ Benz 600, etc and I can do 2 in a day for the same fckin salary... fck them! And if its only for chopping, I can drop a Surfs engine in 20 min... snip-snip, chop-chop style). Back there we use high tech tools, fancy high tech gadgets lots of books but in the end, the pros-pros do it (sometimes) by using the basics like duct tape and WD-40 and it works!
Im not good remembering models, engines, or whatever since the cars rolls very fast and the models keeps on changing. Japanese models change every year and Im sure that only a handful of these mods goes outside Japan. We also did many foreign cars but mostly Europeans like Benzes, Minis, VWs, BMW, Porches, Romeos, etc and sometimes, RRs, Bentleys and Ferraris. Maybe Ive lost some of my love and respect for cars especially for my cars since I put cheap diesel engine oil in all my cars whether its a cheapie or an expensive model. My Evo 7, Benz 500, and my Celsior loved the deisel engine oil I just hope that some especially DIY enthusiast can benefit from my cheap way of doing repairs. Please dont ask if I drive an expensive car because I hate them. I only drive dirt cheap vans that nobody will be interested to use.
If you have problems especially if its for a very rare Japanese car and you mechanic is running in circles, maybe I can give some help especially if you want to do it yourself. BUT please try to understand that I dont have all the answers and may be occupied doing work.
TY

PS: if you have time, please check the gallery. Ive posted some of my vehicles that Ive repaired and chopped and in shorts... please dont expect anything fancy because all I have are cheapies.

[obiwan]

Hi guys,
Im just having second toughts if I should give tips on repairs because as we all know mechanics are like doctors and every doctor has his own style and his own way of treating a patient. If you have problems especially if its for a very rare Japanese car and you mechanic is running in circles, maybe I can give some help especially if you want to do it yourself. BUT please try to understand that I dont have all the answers and may be occupied doing work.
TY

PS: if you have time, please check the gallery. Ive posted some of my vehicles that Ive repaired and chopped and in shorts... please dont expect anything fancy because all I have are cheapies.

Hi Trials Jpn,

I am sure that I speak for a lot of others here that we really appreciate you and others like you who take time out to help newbies like me try to make sense of our moody engines

Any advice from you guys is ALWAYS a big help...it is true that a lot of the mechanics here would run around in circles unless they experienced the exact same problem (which is not always the case)...

so again, thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to help others...

[obiwan]

I second this. When turning the pump for the Power Steering delivers more hydraulic fluid to the rack&pinion which can cause the engine to stall. If you check the electronic diagram of a Honda EG (92-96) there is a switch (sensor) installed in-line on the PS hose going to the r&p. This is a pressure sensor which gives a signal to the ECU (to idle up) when more fluid pressure is needed by the rack&pinion thorugh the PS pump. This might be something you can check

Thank you too Gary , geeez never thought these EFI engines could be so complicated...

you guys are real PROS!

[bigbrother]

Yap same problem with our previous ESI model civic almost 80,+++km , when in aircon mode it automatically starts to go haywire in around 10mins the engine stall automatically..the idle drop to .5rpm and died... I drove the car to the honda cars manila and they told me that theres a problem with the aircon and needs to clean the throttle body and adjust valve tapet thats the job list description so I approved the job..mahal pala ang labor n aircon blower grave....

nawala yun problem within 2 weeks but the problem came back... so Iam so angry and tried my frend at banawe to fix the problem..

FYI the guys in honda did not clean the throttle body and didnt adjust the vale tapet ... coz my frends mechanic told me that the throttle body has not been open pa.and the engine is so noisy it sounded like a desiel engine..... so he ask my permission to check and clean it i said ok... told me to wait within around 45mins to an hr. thats it ....

after 3 months its still ok and then we sold the car... this happens last year march...

[kinyo]

... geeez never thought these EFI engines could be so complicated...

yes EFI is so complicated but most owners never knew ... i used to own 95 Civic ESI and bought the Chilton's book for it as well as downloaded a whooping 82MB service manual ... the information is overwhelming!

but it is also true that EFI's are actually reliable ... although they may be difficult to troubleshoot at times, especially for intermittent problems, it would turn out that the problems are easy to fix

there is an Electronic Air Control Valve on the Civic ESI located on the throttle body ... cleaning the valve after 9 nine years of use fixed a rough idling problem ... although i had the fuel filter also cleaned in the course of troubleshooting

the Power Steering Oil Pressure Switch is also used for idling control and it appears to be involved in your problem ... it is easy to verify its operation ... this part never failed on my car, i guess it is reliable and, hopefully, your problem may just be a case of loose contact

as for honda casa service, i have my share of horror story ... competent mechanics are hard to find in or out of casa ... nasa japan na yata sila lahat ... in fact the best mechanic who touched my honda car was nissan trained! ... your best bet is speedyfix as they are highly recommended by tsikot folks (although i never had the chance to avail of their service due to being a promdi) ... leave your car to them for thorough testing if that's what it takes to have your problem resolved ... a day or two should be sufficient

hope this helps

[ian_rex]

uy chilton din? i'm planning to go get one myself, i already had the service manual. magkano ang bili mo sir sa book mo? the only problem with my service manual is that my engine type wasn't there... actually, mas mababa lang ang displacement ko, but the engine it is same with a larger displacement and different name.