E85 gasoline

[GTi]

I read from the news that they are now going to make E85 available in the stations and that it can be bought for about 39.25 per liter. Is it true? When will it be implemented? Can a 2005 Honda Accord 2.4 and a 2003 Ford Escape 2.0 4x4 be able to use that fuel without engine modification?

[userfriendly]

Read the same thing in inquirer yesterday. Seaoil is supposed to start selling it as well as conversion kits to allow engines to safely use it. I'm no expert, but AFAIK, you cant use E85 on ordinary engines.

Ford has the E85 capable Focus. Aside from this, I dont know if any locally available car is capable of using E85.

[number001]

Locally, the Jeep Commander can do E85 (meaning 85% Ethanol + 15% Gas).


Re: Ethanol compatibility of locally produced Ford Focus petrol engines (1.8 li and 2.0 li)

From Ford Philippines

In the Philippines, Ford unveils the first ever FFV vehicles in the Ford Focus 1.8 litre and Ford Focus 2.0L Sport - an unprecedented achievement in Philippines automotive history. Both vehicles are E20 capable, meaning they can run on fuel composed of 80% gasoline and 20% ethanol.

[shadow]

I don't think so...majority ng mga cars dito hinde naman pwedo sa E85 eh....

[iho250]

I don't think so...majority ng mga cars dito hinde naman pwedo sa E85 eh....

sayang kala ko pa naman good news...

[1D4LV]

di magagamit ang E80 dito, except for the Focus.
E20? ubra pa yan, pero threading the thin line na yan...

[userfriendly]

Ford has the E85 capable Focus. Aside from this, I dont know if any locally available car is capable of using E85

Locally, the Jeep Commander can do E85 (meaning 85% Ethanol + 15% Gas).


Re: Ethanol compatibility of locally produced Ford Focus petrol engines (1.8 li and 2.0 li)

From Ford Philippines

oops, E20 pala not E85. Thanks for correcting me, number001 .

[niky]

The conversion kit ought to include the fuel lines (For older cars) and/or a retuning of ignition timing and fueling to take advantage of the high octane of the alcohol, to make up for the lower energy content.

[j_avonni]

Akala ko E-Series ng NOKIA. Nokia E90 kasi ang gamit ko ngayon.

As far as I know, up to E10 ang pwedeng gamitin ng karamihan ng sasakyan. More than that could have an adverse effect to the engine.


:coffee: [SIZE="1"]3624[/SIZE]

[Tailhook]

Here's an interesting piece of info that completely debunks the myth that ethanol blended gasoline will solve the world's unquenchable thirst for fossil fuels:


With the spiralling cost of fuel prices brought on by George Bush's "War On Terror", people are looking at everything to get cheaper fuel, and one of the silver bullets seems to be E85 Ethanol-blend gasoline. I say 'seems to be' because once you do some research, which is what you're doing right here by reading this, you'll learn it's not quite the magic solution everyone would have you believe.

E85 ethanolE85 is a blend of regular unleaded petrol with between 70% and 83% ethanol depending on the geographic location and time of year. (If you must know, Google for ASTM D 5798-99). Simply blending ethanol and petrol normally results in a product with too low a vapour pressure, especially in the winter, which is why it is a process best left to people in white labcoats in refineries.

It's designed for so-called Flexible Fuel vehicles, and as such has been classified by the US Department of Energy as an alternative fuel. The facts on E85 are a little hard to come by, so I've tried to collect together and put as many as I can right here so that you, dear reader, can try to cut to the chase. So what is a flexible fuel vehicle (FFV)? Well, it's a vehicle with an engine and emissions system designed to be able to run on a blend of unleaded petrol and ethanol up to a maximum of 85% ethanol. If E85 isn't available, you can run them on just plain old petrol though. If you read all the hoopla surrounding E85, you'll see this statement crop up time and time again: "It is a renewable source of energy and reduces the crude oil imports needed to fuel America's transportation system. Ethanol is a clean, environmentally friendly fuel.". Weeeeelllllll yes. But more specifically, "sort of". It's true that it is partly based on a renewable source of energy - ethanol is basically distilled corn oil (or wheat, barley, or potatoes. Brazil, the world's largest ethanol producer, makes the fuel from sugarcane), and yes, it's a cleaner and slightly more environmentally friendly fuel. There's a few 'buts' to go with all this, and they're a big 'buts' - of Jennifer Lopez proportions. First, there isn't enough farmland to grow enough corn to produce enough ethanol to meet gasoline demands, and it wouldn't be a good use of it even if there was. Second, there's a huge hidden cost in water - it takes 10 tons of water to process 1 ton of grain for ethanol [Ref: Plan B 2.0: Rescuing a Planet Under Stress and a Civilization in Trouble by Lester R Brown. ISBN 0393328317]. Third, in 2007, in a report on the impact of biofuels, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) said biofuels may "offer a cure that is worse than the disease they seek to heal"."The current push to expand the use of biofuels is creating unsustainable tensions that will disrupt markets without generating significant environmental benefits," the OECD said. "When acidification, fertiliser use, biodiversity loss and toxicity of agricultural pesticides are taken into account, the overall environmental impacts of ethanol and biodiesel can very easily exceed those of petrol and mineral diesel," it added. And finally, in bold because it's the important part of this paragraph. E85 Ethanol-blend fuel has horrible gas mileage.

What does this mean to you? Well it means you'll need a lot more of it for a start. Sure it may be cheaper than regular petrol, but there's a reason - it's a terrible way to run a vehicle. Even the governments own figures back that statement up. Check out one of their lists of flexible-fueled vehicles for yourself. On average, putting E85 in a flexible fuel vehicle will return a nauseating 25% worse gas mileage. E85 doesn't burn as efficiently as regular petrol because it contains less energy per volume - 75,760btu per gallon as oppose to 115,400btu per gallon for plain old petrol. This accounts for the 30% increase in the amount of fuel required in the fuel-air mix during combustion, and the corresponding drop in gas mileage. All this comes with an average drop of only 10% in greenhouse gas emissions. If you go by historical precedent, and assume we all move to FFV's, the income from regular petrol will drop so the oil companies will simply increase the cost of E85. At that point, you're getting terrible gas mileage but paying what you used to for just plain vanilla unleaded petrol. Remember - nothing is free. Of course this doesn't need to be the case. E85's higher octane can allow the use of higher compression, more efficient engines (if optimized for use on it). Look at the race car teams - a lot of racing engines run on pure ethanol. And when engineered to take advantage of it, high-compression, high-efficiency engines can reduce the gas-mileage deficit to about 10% less than their petrol counterparts, which is much closer. But for ethanol to be successful it must be priced below petrol so that the cents per mile cost is favorable taking into account the drop in economy.


Trading food security/water resources for fuel for our cars seems too high of a price eh?

The quoted text can be viewed here --> http://www.carbibles.com/fuel_engine_bible_pg2.html

[1D4LV]

^^ if the E10 variant is really not good fuel consumption wise, the FC for E85 could be worst.

my experience with E10 is that my FC is 20% lower. Assuming that my car is E85 ready, siguro mga 40% lower ang magiging consumption.

[tidus1203]

Here's an interesting piece of info that completely debunks the myth that ethanol blended gasoline will solve the world's unquenchable thirst for fossil fuels:


With the spiralling cost of fuel prices brought on by George Bush's "War On Terror", people are looking at everything to get cheaper fuel, and one of the silver bullets seems to be E85 Ethanol-blend gasoline. I say 'seems to be' because once you do some research, which is what you're doing right here by reading this, you'll learn it's not quite the magic solution everyone would have you believe.

E85 ethanolE85 is a blend of regular unleaded petrol with between 70% and 83% ethanol depending on the geographic location and time of year. (If you must know, Google for ASTM D 5798-99). Simply blending ethanol and petrol normally results in a product with too low a vapour pressure, especially in the winter, which is why it is a process best left to people in white labcoats in refineries.

It's designed for so-called Flexible Fuel vehicles, and as such has been classified by the US Department of Energy as an alternative fuel. The facts on E85 are a little hard to come by, so I've tried to collect together and put as many as I can right here so that you, dear reader, can try to cut to the chase. So what is a flexible fuel vehicle (FFV)? Well, it's a vehicle with an engine and emissions system designed to be able to run on a blend of unleaded petrol and ethanol up to a maximum of 85% ethanol. If E85 isn't available, you can run them on just plain old petrol though. If you read all the hoopla surrounding E85, you'll see this statement crop up time and time again: "It is a renewable source of energy and reduces the crude oil imports needed to fuel America's transportation system. Ethanol is a clean, environmentally friendly fuel.". Weeeeelllllll yes. But more specifically, "sort of". It's true that it is partly based on a renewable source of energy - ethanol is basically distilled corn oil (or wheat, barley, or potatoes. Brazil, the world's largest ethanol producer, makes the fuel from sugarcane), and yes, it's a cleaner and slightly more environmentally friendly fuel. There's a few 'buts' to go with all this, and they're a big 'buts' - of Jennifer Lopez proportions. First, there isn't enough farmland to grow enough corn to produce enough ethanol to meet gasoline demands, and it wouldn't be a good use of it even if there was. Second, there's a huge hidden cost in water - it takes 10 tons of water to process 1 ton of grain for ethanol [Ref: Plan B 2.0: Rescuing a Planet Under Stress and a Civilization in Trouble by Lester R Brown. ISBN 0393328317]. Third, in 2007, in a report on the impact of biofuels, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) said biofuels may "offer a cure that is worse than the disease they seek to heal"."The current push to expand the use of biofuels is creating unsustainable tensions that will disrupt markets without generating significant environmental benefits," the OECD said. "When acidification, fertiliser use, biodiversity loss and toxicity of agricultural pesticides are taken into account, the overall environmental impacts of ethanol and biodiesel can very easily exceed those of petrol and mineral diesel," it added. And finally, in bold because it's the important part of this paragraph. E85 Ethanol-blend fuel has horrible gas mileage.

What does this mean to you? Well it means you'll need a lot more of it for a start. Sure it may be cheaper than regular petrol, but there's a reason - it's a terrible way to run a vehicle. Even the governments own figures back that statement up. Check out one of their lists of flexible-fueled vehicles for yourself. On average, putting E85 in a flexible fuel vehicle will return a nauseating 25% worse gas mileage. E85 doesn't burn as efficiently as regular petrol because it contains less energy per volume - 75,760btu per gallon as oppose to 115,400btu per gallon for plain old petrol. This accounts for the 30% increase in the amount of fuel required in the fuel-air mix during combustion, and the corresponding drop in gas mileage. All this comes with an average drop of only 10% in greenhouse gas emissions. If you go by historical precedent, and assume we all move to FFV's, the income from regular petrol will drop so the oil companies will simply increase the cost of E85. At that point, you're getting terrible gas mileage but paying what you used to for just plain vanilla unleaded petrol. Remember - nothing is free. Of course this doesn't need to be the case. E85's higher octane can allow the use of higher compression, more efficient engines (if optimized for use on it). Look at the race car teams - a lot of racing engines run on pure ethanol. And when engineered to take advantage of it, high-compression, high-efficiency engines can reduce the gas-mileage deficit to about 10% less than their petrol counterparts, which is much closer. But for ethanol to be successful it must be priced below petrol so that the cents per mile cost is favorable taking into account the drop in economy.


Trading food security/water resources for fuel for our cars seems too high of a price eh?

The quoted text can be viewed here --> http://www.carbibles.com/fuel_engine_bible_pg2.html

I am totally agreed on this. Food security should never be compromised for our fuel security.

[yelotruck]

Sharing info on E85, you may visit the following sites:
http://www.e85fuel.com/e85101/questions.php and http://www.clubintegra.com/board/showthread.php?t=17047

Seaoil has info on E10 at this site http://www.seaoil.com.ph/news/2005_a...el_ethanol.htm,