Another Look at Diesel

[mazdamazda]

Just read this India-based article about the the rapid dieselation and of the lack of laws around the world to control diesel emmission (particularly NOx and particulate matters).

Just keep an open mind.

http://www.cseindia.org/dte-suppleme...lls_angels.htm

[tagalnasaabroad]

and i quote part of the article..

"Industrialised countries, driven by health concerns, have set stringent emissions targets to force innovation, force solutions to the problem of toxic diesel emissions. Near-zero sulphur diesel and advanced emission-control technologies are top priorities. Our government, meanwhile, has utterly failed to address the toxicity of poor-quality diesel."

kaya nga i'm not a fan of diesel -engined vehicles..

[Bogeyman]

And I will let part of the article speak for itself:

Let us understand that in India, the quality of diesel used is extremely poor. Moreover, the Indian government is not interested in providing cleaner diesel.

[mazdamazda]

Originally posted by Bogeyman
And I will let part of the article speak for itself:

Here's the "roadmap" for India's vehicle emmission law :

Euro II: the entire country by 2005, selective states by 2003. the Society of Indian Automotive Manufacturers (SIAM) are targetting a voluntary compliance by 2000.

Euro III: 2010 for the entire country, 2005 for select states. SIAM targets 2004.

Euro IV: 2010 for select states. SIAM by 2007.

in comparison... the Philippine Clean Air Act (equivalent of Euro I only) takes effect on 2003 only. no plans of upgrading this yet to Euro II and above standards

===========

as to the quality of diesel in India... here's a quick guide:

Date Particulars
1995 Cetane number: 45; Sulfur: 1%
1996 Sulfur: 0.5% (Delhi + selected cities)
1998 Sulfur: 0.25% (Delhi)
1999 Sulfur: 0.05% (Delhi, limited supply)
2000 Cetane number: 48; Sulfur: 0.25% (Nationwide)
2001 Sulfur: 0.05% (Delhi + selected cities)
2005 Sulfur: 350 ppm (Euro 3; selected areas)
2010 Sulfur: 350 ppm (Euro 3; nationwide)
2010 Sulfur: 50 ppm (Euro 4; selected areas)

In comparison here's the diesel quality specified in our Clean Air Act:

not later than eighteen (18) months after the effectivity of this Act, no person shall manufacture, import, sell, supply, offer for sale, dispense, transport or introduce into commerce automotive diesel fuel which contains a concentration of sulfur in excess of 0.20% by weight with a cetane number of index of not less than forty-eight (48): Provided, That by year 2004, content of said sulfur shall be 0.05% by weight; and

no moves yet to measure diesel quality by ppm (as per European standards).

=========

what the author is even telling us that even with these measures put up by the Indian government, this is too late to combat pollution. what more with our governement who doesn't even have any plans of upgrading the clean air act?

[ARB]

yes we can all blame that diesels are making all the pollution. so we should be monitoring them or we should make our engine EURO I, II, III compliant.

have anyone thought of the impact of this in our economy? our delivery trucks will be out of the streets in no time if the government will impose these kind of laws. so how do we buy or vegetables? go to the mountains and buy? how do we refill our gas stations? go to the depot and buy directly? how do we buy basic neccessities such as sugar if the trucks that bring sugarcane to the centrals for processing, from central to stores if there are no diesel engined truck that are available will be EURO compliant. yes there are some HINO trucks that are EURO compliant or has engines that are compliant but how about the others? we can say that they should buy new trucks? ha with the gas prices going up and the trucking rate that never goes up all the profit is eaten up by the high prices of maintaning the trucks, how can they buy new ones. we should go after those that do not pass the emissions, and the emission testing centers that you can bribe rather than complaining.

[tagalnasaabroad]

natumbok nyo nanaman mga kakosa..!..anyway you look at it it's all the same crap from the implementing agencies..pare-pareho naman tayong lalanghap nyang toxic substance nayan..ke senador ka man o nakatira sa ilalim ng tulay, anoh..!

makabili nga ng maraming disposable gas masks paguwi bakasyon..

[mazdamazda]

Originally posted by ARB
yes we can all blame that diesels are making all the pollution. so we should be monitoring them or we should make our engine EURO I, II, III compliant.

have anyone thought of the impact of this in our economy? our delivery trucks will be out of the streets in no time if the government will impose these kind of laws. so how do we buy or vegetables? go to the mountains and buy? how do we refill our gas stations? go to the depot and buy directly? how do we buy basic neccessities such as sugar if the trucks that bring sugarcane to the centrals for processing, from central to stores if there are no diesel engined truck that are available will be EURO compliant. yes there are some HINO trucks that are EURO compliant or has engines that are compliant but how about the others? we can say that they should buy new trucks? ha with the gas prices going up and the trucking rate that never goes up all the profit is eaten up by the high prices of maintaning the trucks, how can they buy new ones. we should go after those that do not pass the emissions, and the emission testing centers that you can bribe rather than complaining.

YOU ARE MISSING OUT MY POINT... read first the whole article. am not complaining about diesel engines... am a big fan of euro diesels in fact! this is an informative article rather than an attack on diesel engines.

my point is our government isn't doing enough to bring in good quality diesel here in our country. it is that simple.

even with the sophisticted CRDi engines coming in, it is all in vain if the diesel that is being used here is dirty.

the euro I-IV norms also only applies to NEW vehicles. in-house / old vehicles have a different measuring stick. if you noticed, NOx isn't being measured in your friendly emmission test center. i think that answers your question about the its "impact" on the economy.

[kyle618]

people love to use diesel here cuz its cheaper ... well that is ok but we should really move to euro diesel and ban all old diesel engines ksi ang ingay and ang pangit na.

If people wont stop using the old diesel dapat mag gas na lng sila...

[yan_168]

ang pinakamagandang solusyon dyan ay good quality diesel fuel ang ibenta dito sa atin

[Djerms]

...and all the while I thought that gas emissions are more harmful???

[mazdamazda]

Originally posted by Djerms
...and all the while I thought that gas emissions are more harmful???

basta pag bumaba na ang sulfur & particulate matter content ng diesel, kaya na niyang makipag compete sa gasoline.

[HBOY]

Originally posted by kyle618
...and ban all old diesel engines ksi ang ingay and ang pangit na.

If people wont stop using the old diesel dapat mag gas na lng sila...

medyo mababaw tong reasoning na ganito sir.. i can sight a lot of GASOLINE cars running around.. even 90s model cars that are in far worse shape than older cars.. in short PANGIT... it is all in the maintenance... kahit bago yan.. kung barumbado ka naman magmaintain.. and it is no longer road worthy.. dapat dyan i-retire na.. unfortunately.. as was said before.. nasa implementation pa rin nanggagaling ang problema.. have you seen the checklist sa LTO pag nagreregister?.. ni nde man lang nila tinitignan ng maigi ang mga kotse.. silip lang ng konti.. check na lahat... if you go to the nitty gritty details... yung mga walang bumpers nde na papasa sa registration dapat...

all i'm saying is.. old does not mean bad... dapat tignan at ma-inspect ng maigi ang BAWAT sasakyan.. if they are road-worthy....OLD and NEW ones....

[kyle618]

medyo mababaw tong reasoning na ganito sir.. i can sight a lot of GASOLINE cars running around.. even 90s model cars that are in far worse shape than older cars.. in short PANGIT... it is all in the maintenance... kahit bago yan.. kung barumbado ka naman magmaintain.. and it is no longer road worthy.. dapat dyan i-retire na.. unfortunately.. as was said before.. nasa implementation pa rin nanggagaling ang problema.. have you seen the checklist sa LTO pag nagreregister?.. ni nde man lang nila tinitignan ng maigi ang mga kotse.. silip lang ng konti.. check na lahat... if you go to the nitty gritty details... yung mga walang bumpers nde na papasa sa registration dapat...

all i'm saying is.. old does not mean bad... dapat tignan at ma-inspect ng maigi ang BAWAT sasakyan.. if they are road-worthy....OLD and NEW ones....

well i totally agree with you, every decapitated car or crappy old cars should be thrown in the junk yard or fixed by the owner

[ebbfolls]

Perdonenme, mga kasangga, but I am a bit out of the loop here. If I am understanding this correctly, we in the Philippines are one of the last few who have not adopted the clean air movement, running behind our neighbors like India. What I dont quite understand is "why aren't we imposing these Euro Standards in our local diesel market?" Obviously, a Euro3 or higher standard diesel would be a bit more expensive than substandard fuel, right? So probably some groups (oil importers, maybe?) are lobbying against these laws for their own benefit, perhaps citing the adverse effect a diesel price increase might have on the small business operators(?).

Another thing I notice in these discussion, is that there is a big misunderstanding about what needs to be done to counter the problem of air pollution. Some of the posters seem to think that in order for the implementation of Euro standard diesel fuel, we need to get rid of older diesel engines and replace them with new ones--obviously a very expensive and far-reaching course of action. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I dont think it would be a problem to use Euro-diesel on older sulphur-resistant diesel engines. Perhaps, emission of CO and CO₂ might not decrease with older engines, but if I'm catching the drift here, it is the sulphur content of the fuel that everybody's worried about. If so, I dont see an immediate need to replace older diesels to succesfully implement a modernization program on diesel fuel standards in this country.

[cowboytuna]

Originally posted by kyle618
well i totally agree with you, every decapitated car or crappy old cars should be thrown in the junk yard or fixed by the owner

agree din ako sayo. about naman sa mga binebenta ditong fuel, dapat magkaroon na ng aksyon un govt na un malinis lang na diesel fuel ang ibenta. kaso di kaya mas tumaas un price ng diesel dito satin pag mas malinis un ibebenta? anyway kung mas mataas nga un price, ok n din kung mas ok nman sya sa environment. :D

[BioActiv]

hello guys! just checked in. I read all your views on diesel matters. For me, i prefer to use diesel engine than gas engine. Diesel produces only high in Particulate matter or PM, SOx, Nox, and HC are very minimal to diesel. Guys dont loose hope, there is now BioActiv Diesel Enhancer, a premium biodiesel. Derived from vegetable oils with properties of a diesel fuel and / or as fuel enhancer. This is the solution to smoke emissions and pollution. Very timely also since na we are having sky rocketing fuel prices.


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[bilog]

Originally posted by yan_168
ang pinakamagandang solusyon dyan ay good quality diesel fuel ang ibenta dito sa atin

sabi ng ahente namin mas mamahal daw ang diesel kung mas malinis pa ang ipoproduce nila. i am not sure kung it is true.

[mazdamazda]

Originally posted by bilog
sabi ng ahente namin mas mamahal daw ang diesel kung mas malinis pa ang ipoproduce nila. i am not sure kung it is true.

yup... mas mahal ang manufacturing process kapag ganun...

pero I think it is worth it for our environment and health's sake.

[cyberdoc95]

All these boil down to prioritization. The reason kasi na there is a standard to be followed, is to minimize health risks. Health concerns has always been the top priority for the lawmakers. BUT there is a difference on the situation between European countries and Philippines.

The concern is that having poor-quality diesel would make a lot of people seek hospitalization. This is why European/North American lawmakers have been consistently serious on their emission testing because these countries take most of the bill of the hospitalization of their citizens.(Of course, this is also influenced by these big health insurance companies). Ang point nila is they spend so much paying health workers who would take care of these sick people and spend so much more to services that entails taking care of these sick people.

While sa Pilipinas naman, ilang hospital lang naman ang pinapatakbo ng gobyerno. Most of the hospitals are even funded by international organizations. Most of them get new x-ray machines or Ultrasound from Japanese/American/International Charities. So, if i-balanse mo ang amount of money na ma-gain ng gobyerno by being able to collect taxes from diesel fuel and from sales of diesel-powered vehicles against sa gastos of few hospitals na pinapalakad ng gobyerno, you can conclude na they make more money pa when they continue to sell this diesel fuel of such standard. Majority naman kasi sa Pilipino ay nagbabayad ng sariling hospital bill, so hindi ito mapupunta sa shoulder ng gobyerno.

Suma Total, kumikita nga ang gobyerno pero andami namang nagkakasakit. Can you blame the government? Partly yes, but again, it goes back to priority. What is the government's top priority? Answer: Making money from Taxation. Although Philippine government wants to promote good health, but it isn't top priority. For a country that is stricken with poverty(approx. 60% of the entire population), one has to choose which one has to come first. Unfortunately, these lawmakers, although passed some measures for cleaner air, still cannot let go of the money-making machine of selling such standard quality of diesel. Hindi naman kasi pwedeng gawin lahat at the same time. Pero hopefully, someday they'll realize how bad the situation is when they suffer severe form of respiratory diseases or lung cancer maybe because of carcinogenic particulates emitted from diesel-powered engine.

Buti na lang, homebase namin sa Pilipinas is still an hour away from Davao city. At least, hindi masyadong polluted yung hangin..

[RafRaf]

[SIZE=4]my suggestion... use biodiesel now!!![/SIZE]


not only does this improve diesel exhaust, but in the long run it will boost our coco industry, bring back trees to our dessimated hills and free us from solely relying on foreign diesel resource.