Nissan Kicks VE or Honda HR-V S

**17Sphynx17** · October 13th, 2022 06:54 PM

Originally Posted by ice15

hahaha

ako naman, reminds me nung di replaceable battery ng iPhone

my biggest concern with hybrids and EVs
*meron bang chemicals yung firefighters natin against battery fire? (di sya kaya ng tubig)
*how does our LGU plan to get rid of the battery (waste?)
(not the price of a battery replacement)

Batteries "should" be handled by Nissan/Nissan PH when it is due for replacement sa car or if the vehicle is retired. Nissan has introduced the use of their old car batteries for EVs of the Leaf to be used in their "second life" as an energy storage solution for use in homes or off grid locations. Maybe once there are more nissan e-powers and EVs on the road, that would be the "next move" of Nissan PH to create a sister company to handle that service/solution.

As for firefighting, unlikely as of now especially with our BFP. Had a client before who had a structure built and designed to latest Fire Code. Should have not been an issue, but the local Fire Department would not approve it. After repeated back and forth and with his submission of the attached Fire Code provisions showing how he was compliant to code the BFP of his area (provincial) told him upfront, they didn't have the required ladder that allowed for the code provision of his design being allowed.

The solution, client had to buy the ladder and donate it to BFP. That's how ill equipped majority of Fire Departments are here in PH. Budget is not properly distributed, and with whatever equipment they do have, not properly maintained. You partly understand the plight also of BFP as their budget is reliant of Fire Safety Clearance Fees from Applications received. But if people will purposely avoid these applications, they won't have enough of a budget. Of course there is still corruption on the side/below the table but that's another story as well. hehe!

So, I suggest if it is a concern to bring your own compact 10lbs fire extinguisher for Class B fires. A standard dry type ABC or HCFC (more expensive) should both be able to handle Class B type fires.

How Do You Put Out a Lithium-Ion Battery Fire?

**Dr.Kamiya** · October 13th, 2022 09:43 PM

Originally Posted by ice15

hahaha

ako naman, reminds me nung di replaceable battery ng iPhone

my biggest concern with hybrids and EVs
*meron bang chemicals yung firefighters natin against battery fire? (di sya kaya ng tubig)
*how does our LGU plan to get rid of the battery (waste?)
(not the price of a battery replacement)

Actually water (lots of it) is the way to extinguish EV battery fires. Dry chemical extinguishers will work for smaller lithium ion batteries like those in a smartphone or laptop, but for an EV water is the recommended way.

From page 21 of the Tesla Model S Emergency Response Guide | tesla.com

If the high voltage battery catches fire, is exposed to high heat, or
is bent, twisted, cracked, or breached in any way, use large
amounts of water to cool the battery. DO NOT extinguish with a
small amount of water. Always establish or request an additional
water supply.

Battery fires can take up to 24 hours to extinguish. Consider
allowing the battery to burn while protecting exposures.

And from the Emergency Response Guides published by the National Fire Protection Association | nfpa.org it's specifically stated that you only use dry chemical as an alternative until water becomes available:

The problem is that a lithium-ion battery in thermal runaway has all the necessary components for a fire. The reaction of cathode to electrolyte is highly exothermic, and produces its own oxidizer. Basically it's a chemical fire, not electrical. And since it self-supplies both fuel and oxidizer the only way to put it out is to cool down the battery until it's no longer in a thermal runaway condition.

Thermal runaway mechanism of lithium-ion battery | Sciencedirect

**xwangbu** · October 16th, 2022 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by viper888

My dad chatted with a Taxi driver in Singapore driving a Prius. He said its very reliable but it was only 8 years old at that time with 300K+ mileage. Same weather as us so that is a fairly good reference. The usual melting plastics are normal and can be avoided by parking in a covered area.

Big difference is the road condition.
Madalang ang potholes or tapal fix sa Singapore.
And halos paved kalsada.

**xwangbu** · October 16th, 2022 11:31 AM

Nissan kicks battery replacement around 300k pesos.
Then engine maint is 2x a year (no oil change?).

**17Sphynx17** · October 16th, 2022 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by xwangbu

Nissan kicks battery replacement around 300k pesos.
Then engine maint is 2x a year (no oil change?).

May price na ba nilabas Nissan PH na 300k php ang replacement? Battery pa lang, or labor and materials na?

Sa 2x a year na 10k kms or 6 mos, oil change talaga sa manual nung binasa ko. Yung 7500kms/6mos is pag "Extreme" conditions lang.

Iridium plugs replacement is every 18 months din per the booklet.

**xwangbu** · October 16th, 2022 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by 17Sphynx17

May price na ba nilabas Nissan PH na 300k php ang replacement? Battery pa lang, or labor and materials na?

Sa 2x a year na 10k kms or 6 mos, oil change talaga sa manual nung binasa ko. Yung 7500kms/6mos is pag "Extreme" conditions lang.

Iridium plugs replacement is every 18 months din per the booklet.

Me recent video si JeepDoctor sa YT. During the test drive sinabi nung tiga-Nissan yung price.

https://youtu.be/ur_aBs1DF9c

Skip to 11:30.

**17Sphynx17** · October 16th, 2022 05:15 PM

Originally Posted by xwangbu

Me recent video si JeepDoctor sa YT. During the test drive sinabi nung tiga-Nissan yung price.

https://youtu.be/ur_aBs1DF9c

Skip to 11:30.

Thanks for this.

At least meron na idea sa price ngayon. So using the 300k php price to replace battery.

Assuming non Hybrid city driving fuel consumption of 7km/l or 9km/l. And for Kicks, city driving of 14km/l or 18km/l. Annual kms traveled either 10k kms or 20k kms.

on a 5 year period.

If total distance traveled at 50,000kms (average 10000kms per year)

For 7km/l = 7,142.86 Liters x 70php per liter = 500,000.20php (ICE only FC assumption city driving)
For 9km/l = 5,555.56 Liters x 70php per liter = 388,889.20 php (ICE only FC assumption city driving)

For 14km/l = 3,571.43 Liters x 70php per liter = 250,000.10php (Kicks worst case city FC - current assumption based on digital tripmeter of my friend's Kicks at 12kph average speed)
For 16km/l = 3,125.00 Liters x 70php per liter = 218,750.00php (Kicks current "best" case city FC - current assumption based on digital tripmeter of my friend's Kicks at 14kph average speed)

With the above, savings "could be" as low as 138,889.10php to a "high" (estimate) of 281,250php.

If total distance traveled at 100,000kms (average of 20000kms per year would mean 5 years reach this mileage, or 10 years at 10,000kms)

For 7km/l = 14,285.71liters x 70php per liter = 1,000,000php (ICE only FC Assumption city driving)
For 9km/l = 11,111.11liters x 70php per liter = 777,777.78php (ICE only FC assumption city driving)

For 14km/l = 7,142.86liters x 70php per liter = 500,000php (Kicks worst case city FC - current assumption based on digital tripmeter of my friend's Kicks at 12kph average speed)
For 16km/l = 6,250.00liters x 70php per liter = 437,500php (Kicks current "best" case city FC - current assumption based on digital tripmeter of my friend's Kicks at 14kph average speed)

With the above, savings "could be" as low as 277,777,78php to a "high" (estimate) of 562,500php.

----

Trying to limit total kms to 50,000kms and 100,000kms. Be it 5 year or 10 year total usage for guidance of estimates.

Even in the worst case after 100,000kms, cost to replace batteries are almost recovered upfront (assuming it lasts a minimum of 100,000kms before it starts to have issues)
At best case, after 100,000kms, cost to replace battery is covered plus fuel savings still "saved" enough to cover the replacement, and even some PMS expenses for the Kicks.

This is of course on the assumption you are planning to replace a current vehicle that you have some concrete figures of how much you drive per year, and the average FC you get on city driving conditions for your vehicle.

So, as an exploratory food for thought. The limitation also applies to the price per liter of 70php per liter, be it diesel or gasoline.

**carxynogen** · October 17th, 2022 10:34 AM

Originally Posted by xwangbu

Me recent video si JeepDoctor sa YT. During the test drive sinabi nung tiga-Nissan yung price.

https://youtu.be/ur_aBs1DF9c

Skip to 11:30.

So para ka na ring nag replace ng buong CVT transmission module if that is the price of battery (300k).
I assume after 10 yrs ang need talaga na mag replace ng battery.
Eto yung deal breaker eh, after that time, much better to buy a new vehicle nalang.
Sana meron silang program to help buyer save more by trading their old battery to new one.

Hirap i benta yan sa second hand market if the cost ng battery alone without labor is 300k.

**dr. d** · October 17th, 2022 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by carxynogen

So para ka na ring nag replace ng buong CVT transmission module if that is the price of battery (300k).
I assume after 10 yrs ang need talaga na mag replace ng battery.
Eto yung deal breaker eh, after that time, much better to buy a new vehicle nalang.
Sana meron silang program to help buyer save more by trading their old battery to new one.

Hirap i benta yan sa second hand market if the cost ng battery alone without labor is 300k.

what about,
yung buong kotse ang trade-in program.

tapos,
fix up the entire car, then re-sell it at the re-manufactured car program.

**carxynogen** · October 17th, 2022 10:44 AM

Also naisip ko lang, parang may problem system ng e-power.
One of the factors that will speed up degradation of the battery is the frequent charging.
In case of e-power, parang nangyari is frequent charging ginagawa while driving.
If ganito scenario, I think every year, malaki degradation ng efficiency ng battery.

Compare mo sa pure EV/hybrid, every night lang kasi charging nila.
But e-power is nagchacharge while on driving.

Pero may efficient method din daw on how to prolong battery life by always not exceeding the charge to above 80%.
Not sure if eto ginawa ng e-power engine at gaano ka effective tong method na to to prolong battery's life.

Still eto malaki risk ng e-power, tatagal ba ang battery and how long ang itatagal with the frequent charging na nangyayari sa system?