Duelo de Dos Litros

[jut703]

How would you guys rank our local 2.0L compact cars in the market right now in terms of a) value-for-money, b) fuel economy, c) straight line performance, d) overall performance (Tagaytay corners + SCTEX straights), e) looks, f) comfort.

For me, I'd say:

Value for Money:

1) Honda Civic 2.0S - at 1.1M flat, it's the second cheapest car next to the Mazda 3, but has better better fit/finish, a more powerful engine, equally good suspension, and about the same number of features plus better safety features.

2) Mazda 3 2.0R - it may be the oldest, it actually pioneered the sports compact genre in the country, but at 1.039M, it sports a decent and torquey (great pull, so they say) engine, probably the best suspension and practically all the "basic" features that 2.0 compacts should have - leather, HID, rain sensing wipers, aux, automatic headlamps, etc. Oh and it has a fancy moon roof. Pity it's almost 6 years old. Pity the competition as well for not advancing much over the 6 years.

3) Toyota Corolla Altis 2.0V - priced equally with the Civic, this car presents more comfort features with the trade-off of performance. It has Camry-level features such as a start/stop button and power seats. If you fancy such features, this might even give the best value for money for you. But personally, the features of other 2.0 compacts are sufficient, even if the keyless fob is so much fun, I could live without it. It also doesn't present itself as of much value for money when you count its 3ZR-FE engine, which doesn't stand out against the other 2-liter engines. One last particular gripe is that for 1.1M, why can't I have aux.

4) Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi - at 1.189M, there really aren't much features the Focus has to boast about. It's also got no hood release button inside. So yes it may be quirky, and not be feature-packed, which is a big no-no for some. But it does have it's diesel engine that's got loads of torque, and the only dual-clutch transmission in the group. For the performance-oriented value-seekers, that's got to be the bomb. As a whole package though, maybe not.

5) Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT - at 1.170M, the price may look like a steal considering it's got all the features you'd expect from a 2-liter compact, has lots of exterior kit, and has a great 4B11 engine, but you have to consider that this is a manual. So it should naturally be cheaper, but it's only the 4th cheapest of the bunch.

6) Subaru Impreza 2.0R (both sedan and hatch) - 1.189M might be cheap for an AWD vehicle with a boxer engine, but personally I don't think the AWD is necessary as a FWD platform is enough to handle the rather unimpressive engine of the Scooby. Loaded with the usual features of 2.0 compacts + a lot of speakers and airbags, it's actually nice. But the 4-AT hampers its performance a lot.

7) Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT-A - 7 airbags and a Rockford Fosgate system, anyone? Arguably the GT-A is bursting with features and has a good engine and a decent CVT tranny. But at 1.29M, it's pretty expensive.

Fuel Economy:

1) Ford Focus TDCi - turbo diesel. Nuff said.
2) Mazda 3 2.0R - 8-9 km/l city, so they say. Around 11 highway. Impressive if true.
3) Honda Civic 2.0S - comparatively light body and 5AT should help.
4) Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT - manuals usually get better mileage, and despite the heavy body, the 4B11 is said to be inherently efficient
5) Corolla Altis 2.0V - this is a special case. If you do purely city driving, you'll get around 7 km/l at best. Highway driving is a different story and allows a commendable 12 km/l. So if you do mixed driving you'd probably get somewhere around 8.5 km/l.
6) Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT-A - CVT is less efficient than the manual.
7) Subaru Impreza 2.0R - the AWD will undeniably use up more fuel, but in fact it's still commendable at 8-8.5 km/l considering it's AWD.

Straight Line Perfomance

1) Honda Civic 2.0S - it's what Hondas, from the SiR to the ES 2.0, are known for.
2) Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT - it's got a powerful engine and a manual transmission, though hampered by weight
3) Mazda 3 2.0R - it's got a fairly broad powerband that allows it to accelerate at any speed. But perhaps at around 200 it will lose its torqueyness.
4) Toyota Corolla Altis 2.0V - it may only have 141 hp, but it's also the lightest of the bunch and has good low-end torque for good acceleration numbers.
5) Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi - off the line, undeniably the 340Nm of torque make it impressively fast. However, once you get up to speed, it won't have much of an edge and the heavy engine might even be a disadvantage on the highway.
6) Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT-A - the CVT is said to hamper its acceleration, so I've heard, please correct me if I'm wrong though.
7) Subaru Impreza 2.0R - I've read so many negative comments about its straight line acceleration, the 4AT often cited as the culprit.

Overall performance

1) Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi - the pull of its diesel is said to be addicting, and its improved suspension shared with the Mazda 3 mean its no slouch in corners as well
2) Honda Civic 2.0S - it already has good acceleration due to the great power-to-weight ratio, but its suspension is commendable as well making it a good all around performer.
3) Mazda 3 2.0R - while it lacks the instant acceleration of the Focus or the sheer power of the Civic, its still pretty nimble especially with its lauded suspension.
4) Mitsubishi Lancer EX - both the MT and CVT versions are said to have good suspension that supports its size even through corners, and again, the 4B11 is no slouch.
5) Subaru Impreza 2.0R - It's also gifted with great handling thanks to AWD and its suspension, so its got to eat those corners nicely.
6) Toyota Corolla Altis 2.0V - it's got the softest suspension around and the 4AT mean that it could end up getting confused for the right gear during corners and it just has too much body roll. The previous 5 might be comparable in cornering performance but this one is several notches lower.

Looks

1) Mitsubishi Lancer EX - if looks could kill, this one would be more notorious than Ampatuan.
2) Honda Civic 2.0S - if only it weren't so common on the road, it's actually beautiful, especially post-facelift. It's got the right amount of spunkyness and elegance in it.
3) Mazda 3 2.0R - the perennial sports sedan, its got timeless looks that I think look great.
4) Toyota Corolla Altis 2.0V - perhaps I'm exhibiting a case of love-your-own, but I do sincerely like its elegant lines.
5) Subaru Impreza 2.0R - Subarus just have an inherent appeal throughout their line, and this one has it too. However as a whole package I don't see anything particularly handsome about it.
6) Ford Focus - it looks particularly bland when compared to all others, and its got a pretty old design that doesn't appear as timeless as the Mz3. Let's hope the 2011 Focus looks better in person.

Comfort
1) Toyota Corolla Altis 2.0V - this is its strong suit, and nothing presents a more comfortable ride than this. It rivals the Camry when it comes to making its passengers feel as if road bumps are a figment of your imagination.
2) Mazda 3 2.0R - the great thing about its suspension is that while its a demon through corners, it behaves particularly well on the road. Not too firm, not too soft.
3) Subaru Impreza 2.0R - as a softened Impreza WRX, it has a good compromise of comfort with its ride
4) Honda Civic 2.0S - this one actually has a really comfortable ride, but its low on the list because of its hard seats
5) Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi - its suspension is said to be stiffer than its Mazda 3 cousin, so expect a harsher ride.
6) Mitsubishi Lancer EX - Those big rims coupled with a stiff suspension mean you could be all jittery after a set of potholes.

Overall:

1) Honda Civic 2.0S - it's just a great all-around performer that stands out on the highway.
2) Mazda 3 2.0R - I don't mind the age so it's a great value car for me.
3) Toyota Corolla 2.0V - I initially didn't like it but after 5 months of being with it, it's growing on me
4) Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT - I don't mind the stick shift, and it looks great and performs good enough for me.
5) Ford Focus 2.0 TDCi - I totally love the diesel. I just don't know how I'll react with its quirks and unspectacular feature set.
6) Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT-A - I'm all for its features and great overall package, but lets face it, 1.3M makes this car hard to reach. I could be better off with a Mazda 3 2.0R and a second hand AE101.
7) Subaru Impreza 2.0R - I guess the Subaru and I just don't match. It's a great car though.

[basti08]

If i were to rate them, it would be

Lancer EX GT
Focus TDCi
Mazda3 2.0R
Lancer EX GT-A
Civic 2.0S
Impreza 2.0R
Corolla 2.0V

[scharnhorst]

you have actually tested these cars... right?

I'd take the focus. The driver's seat is comfy and the soft touch interior is quite a notch over the previous generation's plastic.

not to mention that fooling around won't cost as much as with its petrol counterparts

[jut703]

Nope. My opinions should actually be taken with a grain of salt since I haven't driven all of them. We do own an Altis 2.0V so my takes on the car are all based on first hand experience.

And that's why it'd be great if others posted their experiences on their own 2-liter compacts, and even greater would be input from someone who's actually driven all of them

[niky]

Having driven all of these cars... here's how I'd rank them.

Value for Money:


1. Mazda3 2.0R: Plastics may be hard, but fit and finish are good, seats are much more comfortable than the Civic, you get standard leather seats, a moonroof, upsized alloys, low-profile tires, a body-kit and good looks.

2. Mitsubishi Lancer: This is the only 2.0 on the market you can get in three different trims. The cheapest is the same price as the 1.8s of competitors. The most expensive is expensive, but gives you 18" rims, a complete bodykit, a 6-speed paddle-shift CVT, and a sub-woofer equipped sound system. It costs more, but it's got more. Worth it.

3. Corolla 2.0V: Fully-loaded, but doesn't have the chassis, brakes or suspension to deal with the engine.

4. Ford Focus 2.0S: Leather, moonroof. Cheap. Nuff' said. Lacking in styling, but it's a very good car. Better than the Mazda, in fact, in terms of refinement.

5. Honda Civic 2.0SL: Expensive, loaded, but expensive.

6. Ford Focus TDCi: Low on content. Big on engine. If driving fun is all that counts, though, it rates near the top.

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Straight Line Perfomance

1. Ford Focus TDCi: Fastest from a stop. Quickest to 200+ km/h. 135 hp on paper, but it's more like 150+ in real-life*, which puts it on the same level as the automatic Lancer and the Civic. But it has twice the mid-range torque. Minor mods raise the top speed from around 210 km/h to 230+.

*TDCi makes 25 whp on the Speedlab dyno, same as the stock Civic 2.0 and Lancer 2.0, which are rated at 152-155 bhp

2. Honda Civic 2.0S: The manual was faster than the TDCi from a stop. No manuals are now available. In transient acceleration and overtaking, it's not as strong as the TDCi and the 5-speed gearbox has very long overdrive gears, which makes top-end acceleration feel rather weak.

3. Lancer: In MT form it'll match the Focus, in AT, it's around average. Big body blunts acceleration at low speed and causes more drag at high speed.

4. Mazda3 / Corolla 2.0V / Focus 2.0S - Have tested each of these. All are around 10 and a half seconds to 100 km/h. All have fairly old 4-speed ATs. Yes, the lighter Corolla isn't appreciably faster than the 3 and Focus. All three have good low end torque, but the Corolla's engine is unwilling to rev and has a lousy low revlimiter, so its low weight advantage isn't much of an advantage in real world use.

5. Subaru Impreza 2.0R - The manual feels quick. The automatic is slower than an automatic 1.5 liter subcompact.

*If we're talking top speed, I haven't tried to find it for the gasoline cars, but do note... most automatic Japanese cars have a 190 km/h speed limiter. The Focus TDCi does not.

Handling Performance (doesn't make sense to combine handling and speed, since you already covered speed)

1. Ford Focus 2.0S / 1.8 hatcbacks - Sweetest handling balance. Best steering. Real easy to countersteer through the uphill 1-2 combo on Subic that makes a lot of people spin out. And now my wife won't ride with me on track, anymore. :hysterical:

2. Ford Focus TDCi - More willing to rotate now, feels less piggishly nose-heavy and closer in handling to the regular Focus. Would rate it at 4 or 5, but the new Powershift transmission gives you better corner exits, and having an automated manual allows you to left foot brake, giving you a more interesting drive through the mountains. 16" wheels and NCT5 tires still suck, but 17" wheels are a dealer option.

3. Mazda3 2.0R - Better tires, longer body less willing to rotate. But it's lighter than the Focus 2.0, and has quicker steering. Personally, the Focii have better steering feel and suspension damping, which is why I rate them higher.

4.(tie) Mitsubishi Lancer - Very good handling for its size. Lots of grip if you get one of the variants with 18" wheels.

4.(tie) Subaru Impreza 2.0R MT - Yeah, it's a tie. The Impreza has a lot of body roll, but it's willing, it's relatively neutral and it's easy to hold in a four-wheel drift. Down to fourth just because of the dead steering.

6. Honda Civic 2.0S - Light body, tight suspension. The rear end is kind of inert, though... which makes it feel less willing than the old Civic, but have no illusions, the Civic chassis is incredible... have no illusions, all of these top six cars are very good cars for carving up a challenging road.

7. Subaru Impreza 2.0R AT - Doesn't feel as involving as the MT. AT long-geared, which takes you out of the moment if you get stuck between gears mid-corner. Competent, but not exciting.

8. Corolla 2.0V - Wallowy, vague steering. Understeers into corners, and snap oversteers if you lift off the gas pedal or hit the brakes. Then fishtails when you try to correct, because the steering is so vague. Imagine shoving a sack of rice into the front of a shopping cart and you get an idea of how the Corolla handles.

Looks

1. Lancer
2. Civic / Focus / Mazda3 / Corolla (yes, I really can't make up my mind)
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3. Impreza

But note... they all look good.

Comfort (prioritizing driver's comfort)

1. Impreza - almost as buttery as the Corolla (but with better body control), more supportive seats. Rear seats too low.

2. Mazda3 - supportive seats, ride supple. Rear not as big as the class-leaders.

3.(tie) Corolla - best ride, seats kind of squishy. Footwells absolutely suck.

3.(tie) Focus - supportive seats, ride firm but supple. Small in the rear, though.

5. Lancer - Big interior, Good seats. Clumps over small bumps due to big wheels, but flows with the road well. Might be too stiff for some, Just okay for me.

6. Civic - Also has a stiff ride, but worse, it has terrible seats. Great interior, but comfortable, no. While the CR-V seats are just about bearable (though still rock hard), when I last drove a Civic, I had to get out after driving it for an hour, my back hurt so badly. And i could never find a seat rake position that kept the lumbar support from cracking my spine. For short trips or blasts on the track, it's great. If you go out to the province or sit in bad traffic for two hours on your daily commute (as I do), no. Absolutely no. no. no. I'd rather get a Jazz than Civic, as Jazz seats are perfect. (incidentally, seat comfort was also a problem on the previous Jazz... though the seats weren't as hard, the thigh support was horrible).


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Overall:

1. Ford Focus TDCi... but if you absolutely need a gasser, the gasoline car is worth a look. Good torque makes up for the lack of a gear, and it's a fantastic car to drive.

2. Mitsubishi Lancer EX GT-A... paddle shifters more responsive than +/- on the Focus, only paddle shifters in the class this good are those on the Civic. But besides that, great kit, great looks, incredible amount of space.

3. Mazda3... good car, but getting old. May be replaced soon. Which means it'll get cheaper... but it also means resale value will take a hit when the new car comes out.

4. Subaru Impreza 2.0R MT... fantastic to drive. Looks good, feels sporty, sounds great (boxer burble!).

5.(tie) Honda Civic... fantastic car... if you're under 25 and are thin. For older drivers, heavier people or those with sensitive stomachs, it's like strapping into a torture rack. If they just fix the seats, it'll be perfect. In the end, not at the top because the 1.8 Civic is all the Civic you'll ever need, considering the 1.8 has the same performance as most 2.0s.

5.(tie) Corolla 2.0V... has lots of toys. Good power. Great ride comfort (best in class). In fact, as a daily car, it's faultless. BUT: it's simply not sporting. I wish Toyota would just bring back the luxury variant of the 1.8, instead, as that was a good car, and at least the 1.8 liter engine didn't overpower its brakes or suspension.

6. Subaru Impreza... I'd recommend the MT over the Civic, but the AT isn't quite as good... and a questionable value compared to the rest. If only it came with a 2.5 liter engine instead, I could forgive it...

[jut703]

Damn niky, how I wish I've had the opportunity to drive all of them too. Perhaps I should start carving up my career to be an auto journalist?

I always knew that the Lancer was stiff, or that the Corolla was soft, or that the Civic had bad seats, or that the Subaru was slow, but since I haven't experienced it first hand (except the stiff Civic seats), I never quite got to be able to put it into perspective.

I've only tried the 1.8V Civic so I really don't have first hand experience about the K20Z's performance, but the ride isn't as bad as you say IMHO. But then, I do fit in your under 25 and thin criteria. Matter of personal taste I suppose. But if you say that it's the worst already, then that probably means that all others are better. It does change my perception on the Lancer and Focus which I always thought were too stiff, stiffer than the Honda.

[scharnhorst]

Any comments about the new kids on the block? chevy cruze and the kia forte? though I'm not sure kung may 2 liter petrol yung cruze

[tidus1203]

Wala. The Cruze is only available in 1.8L displacement...

[jut703]

Well, the Chevy Cruze hasn't been released yet so there isn't much to say about it yet. Also, it only has a 1.8L engine. I have read reports that it would be priced at around 1M. If that's the case, then it would fall irrelevant next to the Civic 1.8S which is just at 958k. It would've gone head to head with the Altis 1.8V, but that variant has gone the way of the dodo.

The Forte? I think the fact that it's priced at 1.32M automatically makes it an unreasonable car. All I have to say about it are from spec sheets and pictures. For 1.32M, it's speced even barer than the 1.039M Mazda 3. None of the fancy auto-headlamps, auto-wipers, auto-anything. It also doesn't have the usual leather seats or HID headlamps. It's engine has good figures on paper, 156 hp and 195 Nm, but of course in practice it could all turn out to be sludge. It does look absolutely nice, though a copycat of the other compacts. At least Kia has done it with class, unlike the Chinese. Interior is standard Kia/Hyundai, with that sporty touch. But in the end, it's impossible not to consider the price of this car when looking at the big picture. And simply, it doesn't have enough kit to merit it being more expensive than the well-speced Lancer GT-A.

[renzo_d10]

According to the december issue of TopGear. The base model Cruze is priced at about 800k -, that ... has all the features that a motorist needs already. This is the Base model with a capital B ... this, comes with only a Manual Transmission. This got 1 airbag - driver's side.

Next would be the LS model. + dual airbags. 6-disc CD changer and a traction control.

The high-end model is priced at the 1m mark -, this one gets more features such as, the start stop button, 17" alloy rims, power-folding side mirrors, rain sensing wipers, 6-disc CD changer and a traction control.

All models get the ff. features : a. steering wheel audio controls ; b. Optitron Gauges ; c. Auto on/off headlamps ; d. rear. parking sensors ; e. keyless entry with flip-key ; f. 6 speakers ; g. USB and aux inputs ; h. MID ; i. ABS, EBD and BA.

Awesome, it may is but let us not forget that it's still owned by the going down General Motors. Maybe we should look for it for a while first before deciding into getting one ... because, yes we do know that it is STILL a good alternative.

Oh by the way ... I now do wonder when will GM release the Camaro here.

[scharnhorst]

I just drove beside an unfamiliar chevy this morning with CRUZE emlazoned on its plate number holders. hmmm. Apparently there's going to be a 2 liter diesel for the other markets. But not here. grrr.

If money were no object... the c30 or the 120d. if only. hehe

*just checked: 1.32 million nga ang Forte. no contest

[Gerbo]

If this is a bachelor's 2.0L car---my choice would be the Lancer ---good combination of looks, driving mechanics, and engine performance.

It has the makings of a classic one. Vast improvement from the model it replaces. Standout form among its peers. Racing genes, too.

[renzo_d10]

*just checked: 1.32 million nga ang Forte. no contest

No wonder.

Afterall, it's a Kia ... knowing their pricing schemes, you wouldn't be really surprised if they attach a price like that on a compact sedan.

[mda]

The Civic 2.0S (no longer the S-L as of the 2009 MY) is priced way too high IMO.

The 2.0S loses:
- curtain airbags
- VSA
- 6 cd HU
- chrome door handles (not really such a biggie)

With a corresponding price 'drop' of less than 10k. Ayos to hahahaha.

No longer a good buy IMO. And I'm saying this with a bias to the civic (love your own parin, but the current 2.0S doesn't justify the price na).

[jut703]

IIRC, then the differences of the 1.8S and 2.0S Civic would just be:

- K20 engine over R18
- Leather seats
- HID
- Auto Climate Control
- Side-mirror repeaters
- Leather-wrapped steering wheel
- Chrome-tipped exhaust
- 2 tweeters
- 17" Rims

All this for a price of 140k. Maybe it's just me but I still think it's still pretty good for 1.1M. The bulk of the 140k probably goes to the engine. On the other hand, the identically priced Altis 2.0V is 180k more expensive than the 1.6V. For that 180k you get:

- 3ZR-FE engine over 3ZZ-FE
- Leather seats
- SmartKey feature
- Rain-sensing wipers
- Paddle-shifters
- HID
- Power-folding mirrors

For me they provide about the same bang-for-the-buck with the main gem of the Civic its engine and the Altis its toys. But still, 1.1M and NO AUX?!

[niky]

RE: Civic: Worst in terms of ride is relative. It'd actually be okay if not for the seats... about par, I guess, with the Lancer. If I had a better back, I'd consider it. Despite the seats, I really, really like the car. Great ergonomics, great engines (both the 1.8 and 2.0) and good gearboxes (only gripe is the long 4th gears Honda uses). All that's needed is to give it a little softening, like they did with the Jazz.

If the Kia Forte has the 4B11 that's in the Lancer and the Kia Soul, then there's no doubting it'll be a powerful engine. Performance, though, will depend on the actual transmission that's in the car.

Kia is really hampered by CBU taxes. But then, Hyundai seems to get by. Maybe the local management doesn't care that their prices are too high... since people still apparently buy them, anyway.

The 120d is a fun toy... BUT... the stiffness of the run flats is horrible. As long as you don't drive over a gravel driveway everyday, though, it's acceptable, since the suspension itself isn't that bad. But personally, in that price range, I'd rather get a 320i, which is a bigger, better car than the 1-series.

Of course, if I were rich enough to have an M3 as a daily driver, I'd consider getting a 120i coupe as a back-up toy...

[jut703]

The Soul has the 4B11 as its engine too? I didn't know. The Forte, perhaps, since it has the exact same figures as the Lancer. But as per specsheets, the Soul only has 141 hp and 189 Nm of torque. Weird that they'd underrate it when the Soul is marketed as a hip and sporty box on wheels.

[niky]

The Soul has the 4B11 as its engine too? I didn't know. The Forte, perhaps, since it has the exact same figures as the Lancer. But as per specsheets, the Soul only has 141 hp and 189 Nm of torque. Weird that they'd underrate it when the Soul is marketed as a hip and sporty box on wheels.

Darn it... my mistake... the Soul actually has the older Beta engine, as in the Tucson... the Forte will have the same Theta/4B11 engine that's in the Coupe and the Lancer. (Same as in same block and general design... the Mitsubishi variant has different sensors and electronics...)

Bugs me why Hyundai Kia have two different 2.0s when they could just use one... although, to note... the engine note of the weaker Beta engine is nicer than that of the Theta...

[jut703]

My guess is that the Soul was supposed to be a low-priced fun car hence the cost-cutting on its engines. Then Kia Philippines trashes the whole concept and sells the car at an exhorbitant 1.32M.

The funny thing is that Hyundai sells the 4B11T-derived Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0 for the same price.

[niky]

My guess is that the Soul was supposed to be a low-priced fun car hence the cost-cutting on its engines. Then Kia Philippines trashes the whole concept and sells the car at an exhorbitant 1.32M.

The funny thing is that Hyundai sells the 4B11T-derived Hyundai Genesis Coupe 2.0 for the same price.

Yeah... it's a shame... because the Soul is a very good car. Just 400k too much. But then, Hyundai's local HARI arm has better marketing and more coordination than the local Kia.