crdi vs gas

[Drave]

IMO, one major advantage of CRDI turbo-intercooled diesels over gasoline engines of similar displacement is fuel efficiency. Kumbaga, matipid na, mura pa ang fuel.

But when it comes to power and refinement, lamang pa rin ang gasoline. One example is the 2.0 evo engine. Put a turbo and other tweaks, and it can give out almost 300hp and 400nM torque. I don't know of any diesel of similar displacement that can do that.

With regards to refinement, siyempre, tahimik yung gasoline at di masyadong torquey kaya mas hindi mahihilo yung pasahero. Kaya nga karamihan sa mga luxury cars eh de-gasolina.

For me, overall, it's crdi turbo-intercooled with vgt diesel over a normally aspirated gasoline engine.

[Blackraven]

I think Niky gave the best commentary regarding the "Diesel vs. Gasoline/Petrol" debate. The best post I've seen because it is non-biased giving the positives and negatives of both sides.

Now it's time for me to give my non-biased viewpoint as well.

Dito kasi sa Pinas, Diesel is cheaper obviously compared to Unleaded and this is why the fuel is popular. Same goes in Europe kaya the continent is on a "Diesel Blitz". Pero in the US naman, Ultra-Low sulfur diesel is still 1-2$ more expensive than unleaded fuels and only a few stations carry biodiesel at 5-10% blend. Kaya diesel penetration for passenger cars may take a while over there.

Pero when you go to Hong Kong or Singapore or South Africa, bawal ang Diesel Passenger Cars doon (only for commercial/industrial vehicles). Kaya if you plan to drive there, don't bother looking for diesel automobiles.

So when you go those countries, you don't pick diesel but instead:
Maghanap ka nalang ng Volkswagen Golf na may 2.0 TFSI na makina.

Now onto the topic of engines.
>Diesel will always have more torque than their gas/petrol counterparts at same displacement. <-----undeniable fact
The 3.0 Diesel engine ng Veracruz still has more torque than its 3.8 V6 Lambda engine cousin (for the US market) despite the latter's 800cc advantage.
>Some diesels have same or more horsepower than gas/petrol counterparts
When you compare the Honda N22A1 engine versus the Honda-built R18A, both have same horsepower * 140hp. That's an improvement
Sa BMW, their 2.0 diesel has slightly more horsepower than its own 2.0 unleaded engine. At sa Toyota naman, where a 2.2 liter D-4D engine (2AD-FTV ; 2AD-FHV) has 7 extra hp compared to a 2.4 VVTI unit (2AZ-FE).
>Diesels have generally better fuel efficiency compared to ordinary gas/petrol engines.
No explanation needed there.

Now how about for maintenance.
>I'd say there the same.
-Diesel has more frequent repair intervals but has lesser complex components (such as spark plugs, injectors)
-Gas/petrol has longer repair intervals and is cheaper to maintain but the electronics can be a hassle if all of them are busted.

However, current diesels still have their downsides (based from what I've reasearch in the past up to now):
-Redlining is lower....or revving is at a low range.
It's no wonder pa pala na yung mga tachometer (rev meters) ng mga diesel vehicles are only up to 6000 rpm max. kumpara sa gasoline/petrol vehicles that have 8000 max rpm (with higher-performance models at 10k rpm max.)
-Thus, power tends to slow down on the higher-end of the rev range.
Diesel tends excel at the low and middle end but past there, it tends to be moot. Yet the opposite applies for gasoline/petrol engines as they tend to show their true colors when they are in the middle to the higher end of the powerband.
Best example is the 3.7 engine ng Nissan group. The VQ37VHR really "tempts" the driver to push it past 6-7.5k rpm and beyond.

Dashboard of Infiniti G37/Nissan Skyline 370GT


Probably explains why Porsche doesn't make diesel engines atm.

>Gasoline/petrol still have the edge in straight-line acceleration.
Even up to now till the end of this decade, I think this will still remain true. We will see though if something surprising happens from the diesel camp come by post-2010.
>Manufacturers still improving their own gasoline/petrol engines
Despite improvements in diesel, the car makers are also improving on their unleaded engines at the same time. Most especially sa mga euro car brands where diesel is king for them, they are still improving engines using the other fuel (ie. VAG with their TFSI engine, MB with their CGI Twinspark, Volvo/Ford with their 3.2 V6 and T6 engines and so forth).

So there. A sum-up of potential pros and cons from both fuel technologies.

I'd say that atm, they are pretty evenly-matched (I agree with niky's viewpoint) IMHO. Although things can change by the next decade though so we should see how this battle heats up (lalo na when Nissan releases its next-gen 3.0 V6 by 2010 with up to 30 km/liter of FC)

What you do want to see though for the next decade are:
DIESEL HYBRIDS (best of both worlds).

Once these things launch, magkakaroon na ng competition para magkaroon ng drastic improvements to gasoline/petrol hybrids (which would push for 100+ km/liter due to competition from diesel hybrids )

Then after 2020, we will start to see the dawn of the hydrogen and electric-powered vehicles

Just make sure nga lang na buhay pa kayo by that time so that you can witness some really sophisticated engine technology.

[niky]

Well, gasoline will be fighting neck-in-neck.

What most people don't consider in the diesel versus gas debate (playing devil's advocate, here... I'm actually pro-CRDi) is that if you apply all of the advancements made for diesel engines to gas engines, then you'll have a gas engine that performs spectacularly and sips very little fuel.

New gasoline direct injection engine equipped with variable geometry turbochargers can produce more power, pound for pound, displacement for displacement, than CRDis. And unlike small turbo-blocks of old, they won't need extravagant cooling systems or high-octane. Direct injection helps gasoline engines run cooler than ever before.

In the future, it might be a choice between a 2.0 CRDi and a 1.0 direct injection turbo-gasoline engine in your compact car... and both would either be hybrids or equipped with powerful assist motors attached to new auto-batteries that could provide both regenerative braking and acceleration assist without the weight penalty of current hybrid batteries (I'm watching NanoSafe, right now, for developments)... would be a very interesting time to live...

Ako, buhay pa ako by that time... hopefully! :hysterical:

[mazdamazda]

Actually, there's also a lot of advancement made in the field of gasoline engines.

From the Americans, there's displacement on demand wherein some cylinders of the car shuts-off during low hp demand (at cruising speed, engine idling).

From Germany, there's gasoline direct injection (as mentioned by niky). We'll be seeing this technology trickling off to mainstream vehicles soon. They are also pioneering in the electronic valve control and engine management technology. For example, the opening of the valves and the air-fuel mixture per cylinder can be controlled now electronically. Also, camshaft-less engines might be debuting also making engines more efficient.

The Japs have now perfected the quick start-stop petrol engines to go with the hybrid system.

Regenerative brake systems I predict might go mainstream to only power the electrical systems of a vehicle. This is more economical than a full blown hybrid system.

[Alpha_One]

Pero when you go to Hong Kong or Singapore or South Africa, bawal ang Diesel Passenger Cars doon (only for commercial/industrial vehicles). Kaya if you plan to drive there, don't bother looking for diesel automobiles.

I don't know about HK or South Africa, but there is no such rule in Singapore. However, diesel passenger cars are taxed differently (significantly higher road tax), which makes diesel cars uncommon. However, almost all (probably all but I can't be sure) of the taxis run on diesel (different taxes again). In fact, I've had a ride in one of Comfort's newfangled Sonata taxis, and that thing is so damn quiet I can hear my tinnitus. The old Toyota Crown taxis sounded like trucks it's like night and day. Diesel has long outgrown its smelly, noisy image.

[Blackraven]

I don't know about HK or South Africa, but there is no such rule in Singapore. However, diesel passenger cars are taxed differently (significantly higher road tax), which makes diesel cars uncommon.

I still have to check (I asked this from a few threads sa Toyota Club SG).

Pero from what I know, bawal ang diesel sa passenger cars sold in HK and Singapore.

For example, yung Volkwagen Golf na nakikita ko sa HK, puro 1.6 FSI ang makina. Sa Singapore naman (at pati na rin sa HK), yung Passat Variant is only available with 2.0 TFSI engine (which is one of my favorite VAG engines) mated to a next-gen 6-speed DSG auto gearbox.

Sa HK, yung Hyundai Tucson nila doesn't carry the CRDI engine badge. So ibig sabihin nito ay unleaded engine ang gamit niya. Same with BMW and MB (esp. the latter). When we are already quite struggling with E200 and E240, doon naman, E500 is just normal for them (and I know this because my tita living in Admiralty owns one). Ang daming S350 at S600 pa nga doon eh

Point of the story: In Europe and RP, it's okay to look for diesel. Pero when want to drive a car in SG or HK, don't bother asking the rent-a-car guy over there for a CRDI Getz. He'd probably smack you in the head or something.

[Alpha_One]

Well, according to my Googling, a diesel car will cost you SIX TIMES more in road tax in SG, which easily explains the lack of diesel passenger cars that aren't taxis there. The taxis run almost 24/7 and the fuel economy benefits easily outweigh the significantly higher road tax. The particular Sonata we've been on ran 52,000KM in just three months (according to the driver). I think LPG and CNG taxis are on trial there. But there's no law preventing diesel private cars from being used - the cost is just prohibitive. The dealers don't sell them because nobody will buy them.

CORRECTION: taxis share the road tax as the private vehicles.

In HK, diesel private cars and taxis are indeed banned. But not in Singapore.

[oldblue]

in real life application as in pinoy setting,

sa CRDi ko lang nakita naging consistent ang FC namin, and an A/T at that pa.

for example, our previous A/t V6 venture can have an 12km/liter sa provincial long trips, pero sa normal city driving sa Manila 5km/liter, pag nadale ka pa ng bumper to bumper halos less than 3km/liter na lang. this is also true to my Gen1 CRV, grabe ang drop ng FC habang pa-worse ng pa-worse ang traffic situation.

but with CRDi, consistent sya to 7km-8km/liter (sta. fe) regardless kung gano kagrabe ang nadale ko traffic. that alone explains why I will never buy a gasoline car in the future, unless it's a compact vehicle.

alam mo naman dito sa Pilipinas, we are always at odds with nature and timing. most of the time, kala mo clean free drive * home, bigla ka madadali ng grabe traffic like katulad sa INC thread or may nagbanggaan or may nasiraan na six wheeler at 11pm.

with the CRDi, you get to even the odds lalo na kung every liter counts.

[Blackraven]

Well, according to my Googling, a diesel car will cost you SIX TIMES more in road tax in SG, which easily explains the lack of diesel passenger cars that aren't taxis there. The taxis run almost 24/7 and the fuel economy benefits easily outweigh the significantly higher road tax. The particular Sonata we've been on ran 52,000KM in just three months (according to the driver). I think LPG and CNG taxis are on trial there. But there's no law preventing diesel private cars from being used - the cost is just prohibitive. The dealers don't sell them because nobody will buy them.

CORRECTION: taxis share the road tax as the private vehicles.

In HK, diesel private cars and taxis are indeed banned. But not in Singapore.

^^^
Yup you're right there.

I've checked with a few SG car forums and they said that the LTA puts a 600% tax on diesel passenger vehicles.

So yup you are right about that (I still have to check about HK though)

[Fozzie Bear]

The modern CRDi engines currently offered in today's new vehicles are a quantum leap from what was being offered only 8 or 10 years ago.
They are quiet, refined, quick and of course offer fabulous fuel economy.
Anybody who thinks that diesel engines are not the way forward are kidding themselves.
In UK and most of Europe now, diesels account for 50 or 60% of all new car sales (not hard to imagine with petrol/gasoline costing 100 peso/litre in UK).

I have owned various diesel engined cars now for 10 years including my present Pajero 2.5 version.

Unfortunately though my next car will be a gasoline engined Subaru Forester, but this is only because it is all I can afford in the compact SUV category (and it's a quality car with a tremendous pedigree), and the fact that Subaru don't make diesels anyway. If they made one, I'd buy it. No question.

CRDi v GAS - it's a no-brainer. CRDi wins by a mile.

[Blackraven]

Unleaded fuel in Hong Kong averages around USD$1.55 per liter (60-75 pesos per liter). Diesel fuel gets an additional 150% tax (compared to unleaded fuel).

Only industrial/commercial vehicles (that carry only light goods) are allowed to use Euro-4 quality diesel fuel over there without any additional tax levy.

Also, taxi cabs are NOT allowed to use Diesel fuel doon. Instead, all of them use LPG there.

In short, there is nothing wrong with driving diesel in countries such as here and in Europe. But be advised that if you are planning to drive a car in Hong Kong, be reminded that you can only buy gasoline/petrol cars over there.

Don't come crying kung wala kang mahanap na diesel car doon because there are virtually none in existence doon. Doon, you either get a gasoline/petrol vehicle.......o mag-commute ka nalang (bus, taxi o...better yet sakay sa tren nila )..........or maglakad ka nalang kung saan mo gustong pumunta when your there.

Just a friendly reminder to all hehe