crdi vs gas

[jap_nice]

Needs expert advise. Which one is better CRDI engines or a 2.0 gas, in terms of performance, maintenance (cost and routine works) and durability? Sad to say, I don't have the deep knowledge about cars, kaya po hingi ako tulong sa mga tsikot masters. Thanks.

[saipeme]

Needs expert advise. Which one is better CRDI engines or a 2.0 gas, in terms of performance, maintenance (cost and routine works) and durability? Sad to say, I don't have the deep knowledge about cars, kaya po hingi ako tulong sa mga tsikot masters. Thanks.

crdi engines or i would say diesel engine is design to be tougher than gasoline engines meaning it is more durable than gasoline engine, maintenance if you ask from our gurus and car experts they are the same,performance hmmm...if you are talking to the crdi w/ vgt hands down crdi wins...better comparison of that is the sedan 1.5 gas vs 1.5 crdi w vgt (gas engine-107hp/14+torque...crdi engine-110hp/24+ torque) eventhough crdi w/ vgt is stronger and faster it still fuel efficient than gas...

[jap_nice]

tnx po. hopefully meron pa makabigay ng lesson 101 regarding crdi. hintay na lng po ako ng expert advise nyo

[niky]

Although diesel blocks are designed to withstand higher compressions and are technically stronger than the common gasoline block, this isn't a rule that can be generalized. Some gasoline blocks are designed to take a tremendous amount of pressure, such as Mitsubishi's 4G63 (and its replacement, the 4B11), the Nissan SR20 and the Subaru FJ20 (hope that's right).

But these engines are expensive. Most gasoline cars of the economy/mass market variety (I assume you're thinking of cars under and around 1m pesos, right?) have lighter engine blocks... designed that way to save weight and increase fuel efficiency. Yes, they're not as strong as the over-built turbo blocks, but you can go 300k kms or more on some of these blocks with proper maintenance.

CRDi vehicles often cost more, feature for feature, than comparable gasoline cars. This is because, for one, these modern diesels are built to tighter tolerances than diesels of old, and the blocks are also over-engineered to withstand the pressures brought about by turbocharging.

Technically, the blocks themselves should last longer, but with CRDi, we have diesel engines that, for once, are more complicated than their gasoline counterparts. Higher injection pressures, turbochargers (which means more engine bay heat), variable geometry turbos in some cases (which increases cost and complexity), particulate filters (not just catalytics like the gasoline cars have) etcetera. These aren't your grandpa's diesels, which were about as sophisticated as an old Ford flathead V8. There are more things that can break now on modern diesels, and when they do, they do so in spectacular fashion, as in the case of the Isuzu Trooper 4JX1.

But aside from that, and the odd D4D problem (still haven't seen any new cases of that, though), many new CRDi engines seem to be about as reliable as the best gasoline engines.

In terms of maintenance costs and wear... Non-turbo gasoline engines will need somewhat less in terms of maintenance, less fluids to worry about, for one... but there are certain items, such as MAF sensors (on cars so equipped) and ignition coils, that can go out in the long term and need periodic replacement. With diesel engines, you have to worry about injector calibration and possibly injector replacement in the long term for CRDis.

Also in the long term is the question of emissions and pollution. Despite modern emissions controls, some CRDi engines tend to start smoking after a while. Good thing we don't have a visual tail-pipe inspection here, otherwise some new diesels would actually fail the test. Less demanding emissions regulations for diesels in the Philippines also helps. Many modern gasoline engines, on the other hand, are immaculately clean. One example that most people don't give a second thought to is the Nissan Sentra's QG engine. This qualifies as a SULEV in Californian trim... which means it is actually cleaner than a first-generation Prius in this trim. If you're an environmentalist who cares about pollution... go buy a Sentra...

In the end, a 2.0 turbo CRDi has better performance and fuel efficiency than a 2.0 non-turbo gasoline engine. But it's also much more expensive to build and buy. Whether it's worth it or not in terms of economy depends on how many kilometers you will put on the vehicle before you sell it or junk it.

[Horsepower]

modern CRDi VGT like that of Hyundai has its own automatic injector calibrator. Accdg to the SA, it's hydraulic (which im not sure what is heheh). Its injection pressure is about 1800 bars.

2.0 petrol vs 2.0 CRDi VGT? the 2.0 Petrol will get smoked.

[ale828]

Diesel engine
diesel are better than gasoline
CRDi

[pup2]

Ang hindi ko lang makasanayan sa diesel ay ang sobrang lakas ng torque kumpara sa HP. It's not really a downside but more of a quirk on my side. Dati pag diesel mabagal umarangkada pero parang delayed mag-menor. Agree ako na naayos na yung former pati na din karamihan ng problema associated with diesels like noise, smoke, etc. Pero yung parang delayed mag-menor hindi ko alam kung solved na or if they even consider it a problem kasi yung torque din ang responsible for enabling diesels to pull heavier loads eh.

[jap_nice]

tnx po sa mga reply specially kay sir niky. Tama po, around 1M lng ung inaaspire ko na mpv/suv/auv (presently kia carens). Tama pala na mas mahal nga ang price ng crdi kesa gasoline. In lieu of my kainosentehan, I thought porke crdi eh wala na ung issue sa usok in the long run. nandun p din pla . Actually po, di naman ako after sa cars na tatakbo ng sobrang bilis and makakahatak ng trailer ng baka (jok lng po). Pang family lang po and I intend to use it for long. Medyo sikat lng kasing term sa mga thread dito if someone intends to buy a new car is " get the crdi or wait for the crdi" kaya ako napatanong ng todo.

In layman terms tama po ba ang aking pagkaintindi... (same displacement)

1. diesel have more power compare to gas (+)
2. diesel maintenance and parts is much expensive than gas (-)
3. diesel is more fuel efficient (+)
4. diesel engines tends to last longer than gas (+)
5. diesel initial cost is expensive than gas (-)

salamat po ng marami

[niky]

In regards to number 2... this will depend on the engines in question. Truthfully, I don't know how true this is if we're talking Korean gas versus Korean CRDi. But it's not really that much more expensive when it is... you have to pay more attention to maintenance, though... that's for sure.

In regards to number 4... again, it depends. You can run most modern engines up to and beyond 100k kms before you need to do any major maintenance.

About the smoke... although meron, hindi naman siya katulad ng dati. It's just that under heavy loads (full acceleration and sudden acceleration), some modern CRDis still smoke. And some systems are reputedly sensitive to local fuel.

Don't worry... umusok man yung CRDi, di sila mabaho sa loob ng sasakyan katulad ng dati.

[oldblue]

tnx po sa mga reply specially kay sir niky. Tama po, around 1M lng ung inaaspire ko na mpv/suv/auv (presently kia carens). Tama pala na mas mahal nga ang price ng crdi kesa gasoline. In lieu of my kainosentehan, I thought porke crdi eh wala na ung issue sa usok in the long run. nandun p din pla . Actually po, di naman ako after sa cars na tatakbo ng sobrang bilis and makakahatak ng trailer ng baka (jok lng po). Pang family lang po and I intend to use it for long. Medyo sikat lng kasing term sa mga thread dito if someone intends to buy a new car is " get the crdi or wait for the crdi" kaya ako napatanong ng todo.

In layman terms tama po ba ang aking pagkaintindi... (same displacement)

1. diesel have more power compare to gas (+)
2. diesel maintenance and parts is much expensive than gas (-)
3. diesel is more fuel efficient (+)
4. diesel engines tends to last longer than gas (+)
5. diesel initial cost is expensive than gas (-)

salamat po ng marami

my recommendation: skip thinking all 5 conditions.


basta eto na lang isipin mo: masarap mag-drive ng A/T CRDI sa bumper to bumper traffic. matipid, same as gas ang acceleration, and traffic is something that is common to any Manileno, young, old, rich, middle, poor alike.

best way to beat the odds, get CRDi. convenience, comfort, fuel efficiency, maintenance cost and resale value (coz its diesel). plus if you'll get korean crdi, peace of mind coz low profile pa sya. everyone else is still gaga over japs

[jap_nice]

Wow Maraming salamat po ulit mga sirs, (niky, oldblue, eqaddict). 1st time po kc mkbili ng brand new, kya di mabitiwan agad ang pinagipunan ng 2 yrs hehehe. I would definitely consider the new craze in diezel engine, the CRDI

[ale828]

Diesels are the way to the future of Motoring.
I just wish there are more cars, specifically A/T diesel here in the road today.

[jap_nice]

Bk po stupid question to, pagpasensyahan na... Bkit po diezel ang future? Di po ba pinakamababang klase na ang diezel from petrol ng eroplano to premium gas to regular then diezel?

[heightdeprived]

^^if the diesels can equate the performance, refinement and cleanliness of a petrol engine, probably more and more vehicles in the future are going to be powered by diesels.

[oldblue]

the news last night is tataas na naman daw ang mga gasoline in the next months to come, diesel prices will be stable

another reason to get crdi.

yan lang ang the best and bad thing with the Phils. eh, sa kulet ng mga PUV orgs., pinapasa na lang ng mga pulitiko ang cost sa mga gasoline owners.

so as early as last year, we decided to convert all our vehicles to crdi. no sense fighting this baluktot na paniniwala ng mga PUVs. if you can't beat em, join em.

gasoline will really get expensive in the next months to come lalo na kung isa naman powerful pulitiko sees the "benefits" of the conversion from gasoline to LPG of taxi engines. napakasarap magtayo ng company ng LPG conversion or LPG engines, tapos ang pang-market eh taasan na lang sobra ang gasoline hehehe

[oldblue]

add ko lang:

since August, my santa fe CRDi is my daily drive and average km ko per day is 30km (back and forth na). I spend like 2K+ now in fuel expenses for 3 weeks! minsan umaabot pa nga ng 4 weeks pag mga 2 times/week di ako nakakaalis ng bahay.

my dad who has a company issue Ford Explorer EB always complains na pumunta lang daw siya ng Tarlac or Batangas eh halos ubos na ang isang full tank. now, that we bought a Starex CRDi, napakalaki tipid daw sa bulsa when he has occassional trips to nearby provinces. imagine Php 1.9k na full tank for a Starex na maximize nya in almost 2 weeks with trips to nearby golf-courses on weekends. may dvd pa at puwede pa gawing queen size bed pag nagpapahinga sa tanghali.

pero wala kaming sinabi sa Getz M/T CRDi ng brother ko, 5 weeks bago magpa-refill. and his daily trip (thrice a week) is the dreaded Ortigas to Taft Ave and back trip.

[salsaman_60]

sir oldblue may tanung lang ako yung maintenance ba ng CDRi e parang maintenance ng "old" diesel engine? Pati lagi ba ito pasado sa emission? kailangan linisin ung tambutso every month para matangal yung carbon na dumikit? kasi medyo tumatak na sa isipan ko to e although nabilib ako sa power ng santa fe nung na try ko ung sa friend ko, iba ba sa regular na diesel to? gusto ko lang marinig ang sagot galing sa santa fe owner kasi gusto ko rin to e, mom ko lang gusto fortuner na gas (hirap daw kasi maintenance ng diesel) nalilito ako hehe TIA!!

[redorange]

Bk po stupid question to, pagpasensyahan na... Bkit po diezel ang future? Di po ba pinakamababang klase na ang diezel from petrol ng eroplano to premium gas to regular then diezel?

Because diesel doesn't have the octane limitations of gas engines and for less fuel used make as much power. Here's a page taken for the Banks Power website, Gale Banks is a well known diesel tuner in the US.

http://bankspower.com/Tech_dieselperf.cfm

Diesel — The Performance Choice

Some old ideas about performance are slow to die.

By C.J. Baker

The very idea that diesel engines could replace exotic gasoline engines as the top performing powerplants in cars, light trucks, and SUVs seems ludicrous to many automotive enthusiasts. How could a slow, smelly diesel ever hope to compete against an overhead cam, high-revving, high-compression, sophisticated gasoline engine? And the concept of a diesel as a racing engine seems to be pure heresy! What, enthusiasts ask, has the world come to?

There have been a lot of things that have led to the emergence of diesels as the performance engines of today, but most enthusiasts have missed this diesel evolution while it was going on right in front of them. No longer are diesels slow, sluggish, smoky, and smelly. They are quick and fast, and they have the potential to be a lot faster.

Consider what happened to gasoline engines. Big, high-revving, powerful gasoline engines were the norm in the ‘50s through the early ‘70s. Then the gas crunch hit and lead was removed from gasoline to permit the use of catalytic converters for reduced emissions. Overnight, most performance gasoline engines disappeared and it has taken 30 years of research and development to get back to the horsepower levels of the Muscle Car era. Unfortunately, development of the gasoline engine may have reached a plateau. Through these last three decades it has taken computerized engine management, electronic fuel injection, and a host of mechanical improvements to get performance along with low emissions and fuel economy. These are all good advances, but the one limiting factor has been the fuel. There’s only so far you can go with an air-throttled engine on 91-octane gasoline. In other words, it is the fuel, gasoline, that has become the limiting factor.

All the while the automotive industry was working to improve gasoline engines, the same effort was going on in diesels, but because a diesel doesn’t mix its fuel with intake air prior to compression, fuel octane (the ability to resist spontaneous ignition) and resultant detonation was not a problem. Consequently, all the things that technology brought to gasoline engines also benefited diesels, such as computerized engine management, electronic fuel injection, four valves per cylinder, and lighter, stronger engine components, were added without the necessity of reducing the compression ratio. In fact, because there were no compression limits, something else really catapulted diesels ahead of gasoline engines for performance – turbocharging.

While turbocharging has been applied to both gasoline and diesel engines, only limited boost can be added to a gasoline engine before the fuel octane level again becomes a problem. With a diesel, boost pressure is essentially unlimited. It is literally possible to run as much boost as the engine will physically stand before breaking apart. Consequently, engine designers have come to realize that diesels are capable of substantially more power and torque than any comparably sized gasoline engine. Equally impressive is the fact that development of performance diesels is just beginning. Diesels designed specifically for passenger cars are likely to be both more powerful and smaller than today’s gasoline engines. Look for light duty diesel crankshaft speed to increase, engine weight to decrease, and performance per liter to increase by another 50 percent or more! It’s all happening now.

What will these changes mean to performance? Diesels already equal gasoline engines in horsepower per liter. Diesels have twice the torque per liter, and diesels can deliver 20 to 40 percent better fuel economy than comparable gasoline engines. Suppose future diesels are lightened to increase crankshaft speed while reducing maximum torque output. Since a diesel already has so much torque, such a revision might only have 150 percent of the torque of a comparable gasoline engine while its horsepower would also rise to nearly 150 percent of the gasoline engine. The lighter weight would also let the diesel accelerate even more quickly and be just as desirable for vehicle handling characteristics … and all on ordinary No. 2 diesel fuel.

Because enthusiasts have been conditioned to think of gasoline engines when it comes to performance, the idea of diesels may still be difficult to accept, but consider a few facts. Most race cars use alcohol, not gasoline today. Those race cars that do use gasoline use special high-octane racing gas not available at ordinary gas stations. As long ago as 1952, the car that won the pole at the Indianapolis 500 was a turbocharged diesel. Diesels have since been rendered uncompetitive at Indy by rules changes. The fastest pickup truck in the world is diesel powered. The fastest gasoline-powered vehicle in the world (a streamliner) holds the record at 344 mph, and a diesel streamliner is being built to challenge that record. A diesel pickup is being built to challenge Corvettes and Porsches in endurance racing, and diesel-powered vehicles hold the world’s fuel economy records. Diesels are at the forefront of setting new records and of advanced vehicle development.

Is there a performance diesel in your future? Diesel development has come a long way, but the public perception of diesel is lagging 25 years behind. Maybe it would help to call them compression ignition engines instead of diesels, but the bottom line is still the same. Modern diesels are quick and powerful, quiet, easy to start even in cold weather, and don’t smoke. They’ve made incredible strides forward environmentally. They’re also surprisingly easy to upgrade for still more performance that simply embarrasses gasoline powered performance vehicles. If you want to be the fastest of the fast, or the quickest of the quick, or just plain economical, there just might be a diesel in your future. At least you should learn more about these exciting engines. Admittedly, it may take a while to get accustomed to things like a Corvette C6D, a Ford GTD, or a Viper RTD, when and if the car companies ever build them, but it won’t take long to get use to the power. For now you have to make do with a diesel pickup or diesel SUV, but even with these unlikely vehicles, imagine the fun of outperforming those other guys who are still asleep at the gas pump!

[oldblue]

sir oldblue may tanung lang ako yung maintenance ba ng CDRi e parang maintenance ng "old" diesel engine? Pati lagi ba ito pasado sa emission? kailangan linisin ung tambutso every month para matangal yung carbon na dumikit? kasi medyo tumatak na sa isipan ko to e although nabilib ako sa power ng santa fe nung na try ko ung sa friend ko, iba ba sa regular na diesel to? gusto ko lang marinig ang sagot galing sa santa fe owner kasi gusto ko rin to e, mom ko lang gusto fortuner na gas (hirap daw kasi maintenance ng diesel) nalilito ako hehe TIA!!

maintenance is about 2.5k to 3k per 3 months if using non-synthetic oil. if synthetic, 5k+ every 6 months. this is under 3 year warranty pa kasi.

regarding emissions, hindi pa naman kasi ako napara sa daan. and after 3 years pa kasi renewal sa LTO.

[ale828]

Bk po stupid question to, pagpasensyahan na... Bkit po diezel ang future? Di po ba pinakamababang klase na ang diezel from petrol ng eroplano to premium gas to regular then diezel?

In europe, Diesel engined cars are outselling Gasoline cars for several years now. it depends on which car philosphy you prefer to believe in. The US/Japan thinks Hybrid cars are the future while Europe thinks its Diesel engines. You take a pick.
You really have to change your perception of diesel engine. Open your mind, don't believe what older people are saying about diesel engines. The newer diesel engines like CRDi are way way way better and more efficient than gasoline counterparts. Try test driving a BMW 530d and i promise you the torque/power is mind blowing plus it gets the same or better mileage than a honda civic.