2016 CAGI Car & Truck of the Year Awards

**jut703** · November 23rd, 2016 01:56 PM

Curious, does CAGI look at price points?

I could understand that the Civic is the best compact in the market (I think the Mazda is better though I could live with the Civic claiming top marks), but it's 200k more expensive than the Mazda 3 and Altis 2.0.

I'm also curious because the 1.8E is 300k cheaper, and I have the opinion that the RS isn't 300k better.

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**niky** · November 23rd, 2016 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by jut703

Curious, does CAGI look at price points?

I could understand that the Civic is the best compact in the market (I think the Mazda is better though I could live with the Civic claiming top marks), but it's 200k more expensive than the Mazda 3 and Altis 2.0.

I'm also curious because the 1.8E is 300k cheaper, and I have the opinion that the RS isn't 300k better.

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Yup.

Can't give out the formulas, as they're proprietary, but COTY takes into account design, features, ergonomics, ride comfort, space, etcetera, and on the technical side, acceleration, braking, handling, safety features (ABS, TCS, ESC, back-up camera, collision detection) aaaaand price.

TOTY goes further, taking into account cargo capacity, off-road features and other trucking concerns.

But... in the end, the qualitative judging can overcome any scoring deficits in terms of price... if you're perceived to give high quality to go along with that price... and if that price is backed up by high performance... then you've got a good chance of winning.

This has been an interesting year. We had several 1.5 and 1.4 liter turbo cars in the mix, and the performance benefits over the old 2.0 gas engines is quite big... and these cars are retailing for about the same price (the base Focus 1.5T, IMHO, is a freaking performance bargain!) as the old 2.0s.

Feel sorry for the Elantra and the Mazda3... both great cars, but in terms of tested performance, as well as effortless cruising and overtaking, they fall far behind their turbocharged competitors. (The Mazda3, though, IMHO, is still the most fun of the bunch on a twisty road, turbo or not).

**jut703** · November 23rd, 2016 02:45 PM

No doubt that the Civic 1.5T performs better than the Mazda 3 with its torquier and more powerful engine. It's good to know that the CVT doesn't detract too much from the fun. I guess it's the same as the FXT which was still a hoot to drive for me despite the CVT.

Even in terms of top end performance, the NAs don't match up to the turbos?

It's been a long time since anyone ever mentioned the Focus. While it isn't as quick as the Civic, it's much cheaper for almost the same performance. Cramped though, and the Ford stigma has hit it really really badly.

Too bad it's really hard to plop down money on a car that you can't sell after 5 years. An officemate has been trying to dispose his 2013 Focus for months now, noone's batting an eyelash, except for a few lowballers getting it under 300k. That's almost as cheap as my 12-year old Mazda 3.

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**niky** · November 23rd, 2016 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by jut703

No doubt that the Civic 1.5T performs better than the Mazda 3 with its torquier and more powerful engine. It's good to know that the CVT doesn't detract too much from the fun. I guess it's the same as the FXT which was still a hoot to drive for me despite the CVT.

Even in terms of top end performance, the NAs don't match up to the turbos?

It's been a long time since anyone ever mentioned the Focus. While it isn't as quick as the Civic, it's much cheaper for almost the same performance. Cramped though, and the Ford stigma has hit it really really badly.

Too bad it's really hard to plop down money on a car that you can't sell after 5 years. An officemate has been trying to dispose his 2013 Focus for months now, noone's batting an eyelash, except for a few lowballers getting it under 300k. That's almost as cheap as my 12-year old Mazda 3.

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Shame it doesn't get attention. For me, it's the perfect enthusiast car... and at just 1.1m! Chip or reflash and you could have a 200hp hot hatch for not very much money.

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Yup. Biggest issue with Ford. Especially with the Focus line-up and the dual-clutches... which have built up quite a negative reputation over the past few years.

Only good buy for me of the recent Focii would be the TDCi MT... and that's almost ten years old already. Or the previous 1.6 MT... very slow and heavy, but at least it has the hydraulic steering system and no transmission issues.

If they could build a customer base with the new Focus, the new 6AT should (if it proves durable) help erase the stigma of the DCT, but it will take a long time.

They might even have to do a Mazda and offer a Yojin-style program to keep Fiesta and EcoBoost DCT customers happy.

Personally, I (and a number of other motoring journo colleagues) still have a soft spot for the EcoSport 1.5 MT... pretty neat package. I'll be checking out secondhand prices of the Trend when the platform hits three years of age.

**jut703** · November 23rd, 2016 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by niky

Shame it doesn't get attention. For me, it's the perfect enthusiast car... and at just 1.1m! Chip or reflash and you could have a 200hp hot hatch for not very much money.

-----

Yup. Biggest issue with Ford. Especially with the Focus line-up and the dual-clutches... which have built up quite a negative reputation over the past few years.

Only good buy for me of the recent Focii would be the TDCi MT... and that's almost ten years old already. Or the previous 1.6 MT... very slow and heavy, but at least it has the hydraulic steering system and no transmission issues.

If they could build a customer base with the new Focus, the new 6AT should (if it proves durable) help erase the stigma of the DCT, but it will take a long time.

They might even have to do a Mazda and offer a Yojin-style program to keep Fiesta and EcoBoost DCT customers happy.

Personally, I (and a number of other motoring journo colleagues) still have a soft spot for the EcoSport 1.5 MT... pretty neat package. I'll be checking out secondhand prices of the Trend when the platform hits three years of age.

Almost bought a TDCi but my daily is already a manual so I chose the slushbox Mazda 3 instead.

It's not just the transmission that's plaguing Ford. When I talked to one of their VPs a few months back, their service perception is also terrible. And to a point, it's true - when I was servicing my Ford, prices varied widely between branches, and it was generally more expensive compared to Toyota. The challenge comes from the fact that FGP can't dictate service prices like they do for purchase SRP.

Unichip on a turbo-gasser gives about 20-30 hp, yeah? Much much better than the 5-10 hp you get with an NA.

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**niky** · November 23rd, 2016 08:20 PM

Originally Posted by jut703

Almost bought a TDCi but my daily is already a manual so I chose the slushbox Mazda 3 instead.

It's not just the transmission that's plaguing Ford. When I talked to one of their VPs a few months back, their service perception is also terrible. And to a point, it's true - when I was servicing my Ford, prices varied widely between branches, and it was generally more expensive compared to Toyota. The challenge comes from the fact that FGP can't dictate service prices like they do for purchase SRP.

Unichip on a turbo-gasser gives about 20-30 hp, yeah? Much much better than the 5-10 hp you get with an NA.

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The problem with the manual TDCi is the clutch is heavy. Not Evo-heavy, but not great in traffic... and the clutch itself bites like badger... sharp and painful... it's easy for unfamiliar drivers to stall it coming off the line.

Aside from the DCT, there are reports of turbo issues, but sporadic enough that you can attribute it to abuse. And flywheels. Oddly, I've heard of two dual mass flywheel failures, but again, linked to abuse (tuner cars or abusive drivers).

If I didn't have kids and I needed a daily, I'd still consider one secondhand. Have driven a tuned 180 whp car (IHE, Unichip, Devli's Own) and that was mad fun. But if I had the money for the new one, I'd consider it... buy that car, get an intercooler, exhaust and reflash... maybe get the same amount of power over a wider rpm range... and it already handles better than the old TDCi, by default.

**roxy23** · November 23rd, 2016 11:02 PM

No toyota? New fortuner didnt make it?

**GTi** · November 24th, 2016 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by niky

The awards are based on back-to-back-to-back test drives, wherein judges score the cars based on subjective factors like comfort, ergonomics, styling, etetera.

Then safety features are scored, and for trucks, off-road features and cargo capacity.

And lastly, we do performance testing. Acceleration, braking, handling. We did about 450 test runs this year. Those numbers are plugged into the final score, as well.

The TOTY competitors this year were the Chevrolet Colorado, the Strada and the D-Max. Mitsubishi only sent 4x4 Stradas. Those were the only ones qualified all competitors have to have mechanical updates versus last year's model... Strada 4x4s have the new 2.4. The D-Max has the upgraded 3.0.)

I was actually disappointed. The new Colorado is the fastest yet, and the handling is now freaking good. Guess the other judges were still not impressed by the plastics versus the Strada.

That said, the D-Max is a pretty comfortable truck, and I was actually eyeing buying one before... even though last year it still had the old 3.0.

Mazda had a very strong line-up. The board actually announced second and third place overall this year. Both second and third were Mazda6s.

But still, the Civic deserves this win. Honda has finally made a Civic worth desiring again.

Still no detailed review or performance data to go with the awards choices? If you'd come up with a book that had all of that, I'd gladly buy it. 😁

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**niky** · November 24th, 2016 03:11 AM

Originally Posted by GTi

Still no detailed review or performance data to go with the awards choices? If you'd come up with a book that had all of that, I'd gladly buy it. 😁

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Was discussing that with Ferman Lao before he left.

Hey, maybe it's high time we did that.