2006 Audi A4 vs 2006 Bmw 320i

[squala]

Audis didn't use to be exclusive cars, but they've been moving upmarket and closer to BMW and Mercedes (who seem to be moving downmarket with the A-class and B-class (now that's a useless car... Merc money for a mini-MPV? ( ))).

The space that Audi used to occupy is now occupied by VW, who also moved upmarket. In fact, VW tried to do this too fast, and completely lost the plot with the VW Phaeton (nice car, but too much money for a "People's car")... now they're re-thinking this strategy... thankfully.

Well, some Audis share engines similar to their VW counterparts. Audis are simply more expensive, handsome and luxurious cars, but the extra premium doesn't really give a better driving experience over VWs. In other words, they don't have the best value. For example, Lancer Evos or Subaru WRXs have Audi S4 performance at A4 pricing.

The first A4 1.8T was priced just over USD 25,000, which was at the range of the DC2 Acura Integra sedan, Ford SVT Contour etc. During a Car & Driver comparison test, it placed first among those two cars and two others. The testers wondered how Audi can make money from that car at such a low price. That time, you get great exterior and interior design, a spirited engine if not racy, and the option of 4WD.

I tried one like this before, a tiptronic one. But I have to say it's not as exciting to drive as it is to look at. Steering is weighted but doesn't feel as natural as a BMW. Ride is almost rock-hard, far from Mercedes standards. It was also priced at nearly PHP 2M here at that time, so obviously it isn't the best thing to buy with that amount.

As a conclusion, Audis are not bad cars. They're just not exactly the best yet - still a notch below the best of Germans. And again, the what-u-get-4-d-bucks factor is currently debatable.

[niky]

What I mean by feel is the interior and build, but yeah, I'd rather have an Evo or WRX for the amount you'd pay for a base Audi...

A notch below the other Germans? Probably. But try telling that to the zillions of rabid Audi-o-philes who are cropping up on the internet proclaiming that there's absolutely nothing better... :lol:

[Horsepower]

Saw an Audi A8 earlier at the back of a BMW 320i..

wow, the A8 is definitely the better one! The wheels are just so big with thin rubber. it rides like a plane :-)

[niky]

An A8 is kinda too big to compare against the 320i... it competes in the same size class as the XJ, 7-series and S-Class.

By the way, a relative just got the S-Class (lucky-rich-sunuva- ), and it's pretty nice... lots of lines that mimic the CLS, but not as ridiculously banana-shaped.

[basti08]

Well, some Audis share engines similar to their VW counterparts. Audis are simply more expensive, handsome and luxurious cars, but the extra premium doesn't really give a better driving experience over VWs. In other words, they don't have the best value. For example, Lancer Evos or Subaru WRXs have Audi S4 performance at A4 pricing.

The first A4 1.8T was priced just over USD 25,000, which was at the range of the DC2 Acura Integra sedan, Ford SVT Contour etc. During a Car & Driver comparison test, it placed first among those two cars and two others. The testers wondered how Audi can make money from that car at such a low price. That time, you get great exterior and interior design, a spirited engine if not racy, and the option of 4WD.

I tried one like this before, a tiptronic one. But I have to say it's not as exciting to drive as it is to look at. Steering is weighted but doesn't feel as natural as a BMW. Ride is almost rock-hard, far from Mercedes standards. It was also priced at nearly PHP 2M here at that time, so obviously it isn't the best thing to buy with that amount.

As a conclusion, Audis are not bad cars. They're just not exactly the best yet - still a notch below the best of Germans. And again, the what-u-get-4-d-bucks factor is currently debatable.

heheh... i got a hard copy of that issue, i think that was march 97 or 98... anyway, the other 2 competitors aside from the Contour SVT and Integra GSR were Saab 900 SE and Jetta GLX VR6. well, for the US market, that particular A4 was really priced like an affordable gem...but here in the Philippines, thanks to Autoprominence, you get 1.6L 8 valve (i think) engine for the price of the topline version you can get in the states.

[ryan]

While Audi pioneered AWD, you can get the same thing from Subaru and Mitsubishi, at much lower prices and with much better performance.

But Audi definitely has a better "feel" to it. Classier interiors, solid build quality... though I thought the A4 1.6 they opened with in the late 90's was a laughable value at the price... One and a half million for a car no better than an Astra? Please... the BMW 316 was ridiculously expensive, too, but at least it was rear wheel drive.

The new A4s are a little easier to justify the premium for, but they're still only for those who can afford them.

-----

Audis didn't use to be exclusive cars, but they've been moving upmarket and closer to BMW and Mercedes (who seem to be moving downmarket with the A-class and B-class (now that's a useless car... Merc money for a mini-MPV? ( ))).

The space that Audi used to occupy is now occupied by VW, who also moved upmarket. In fact, VW tried to do this too fast, and completely lost the plot with the VW Phaeton (nice car, but too much money for a "People's car")... now they're re-thinking this strategy... thankfully.

Subaru and Mitsu? Sure they are nice cars but medyo out of place yata. I doubt the 320i or A4 1.8T potential buyer is expecting WRX/EVO performance unless wala talga sya alam sa cars.

A & B-class useless cars? Sorry but I hope you know what youre talking about. Have you at least rode on one? These baby Benzes may look small but they actually have better interior space than your regular sedan.

Duh!

Duhh?? Dude, have you drove or ridden in one yet?

[ronald_m]

A & B-class useless cars? Sorry but I hope you know what youre talking about. Have you at least rode on one? These baby Benzes may look small but they actually have better interior space than your regular sedan.

I love the Smart fortwo(mercedes) car man.3 cylinder turbo.It will hit the US
shore soon.

[basti08]

A & B-class useless cars? Sorry but I hope you know what youre talking about. Have you at least rode on one? These baby Benzes may look small but they actually have better interior space than your regular sedan.

yeah you're right. it's more spacious and it should be... because it's an MPV not sedan.

and for the price, 2 regular sedans can be as roomy as 1 B-class, still for less money.

now back to the topic

[Horsepower]

An A8 is kinda too big to compare against the 320i... it competes in the same size class as the XJ, 7-series and S-Class.

By the way, a relative just got the S-Class (lucky-rich-sunuva- ), and it's pretty nice... lots of lines that mimic the CLS, but not as ridiculously banana-shaped.

Indeed it isn't. I just can't help but notice that A8's classiness. hehehe.

7 series is good looking car too. hehe

I prefer the previous S500 over this new one because the new one looks like a Maybach. Superlolo car ang dating e. hehehe.

[wren]

By the way, a relative just got the S-Class (lucky-rich-sunuva- ), and it's pretty nice... lots of lines that mimic the CLS, but not as ridiculously banana-shaped.

i test drove my friend's S500 the other day. all i can say is...wow!

my car suddenly felt slow.

[ryan]

yeah you're right. it's more spacious and it should be... because it's an MPV not sedan.

and for the price, 2 regular sedans can be as roomy as 1 B-class, still for less money.

now back to the topic

Using that logic, youre saying that this topic is pointless after all because many other same sized engine cars would cost less than half than Audis, Beemers, Mercs, etc

My point is that there are many factors in a nice car (like interior space) but in the end, buyers decide if a car is worth buying (even if its 2-3x more expensive than your usual sedan). I mean you can't drive 2 or 3 regular cars at the same time so I see nothing wrong in driving a much nicer car (the 2-3x more expensive one like 3-series, A4, or even, *gasp*, the B-class) if you can afford it.

Also, I was merely making a reaction to one of the earlier post saying that baby Benzes are useless because they are "MPVs" which ruins the brand image and should be cheap.

[niky]

Subaru and Mitsu? Sure they are nice cars but medyo out of place yata. I doubt the 320i or A4 1.8T potential buyer is expecting WRX/EVO performance unless wala talga sya alam sa cars.

A & B-class useless cars? Sorry but I hope you know what youre talking about. Have you at least rode on one? These baby Benzes may look small but they actually have better interior space than your regular sedan.

Duh!

Duhh?? Dude, have you drove or ridden in one yet?

I know that your average "Euro" buyer isn't looking at the pocket rockets. I'm just pointing out the fact that you can get a perfectly respectable AWD at less money than Audi. Like on a base WRX at 1.6m. Thus, the AWD doesn't justify the price, it's the luxury and prestige that do. I did say that the interior feel of the Audi was much better, now, didn't I? At the huge prices you pay for an Evo or an STi, the interiors they have are relatively crappy.

The A&B class are, granted, roomy for their size. But then, so is a Honda Jazz. The point is: why spend so much money for a front wheel drive mini-MPV? Granted, there's luxury there, but you can get nearly the same trim on a top-of-the-line Japanese or Euro MPV at a much lower price. It just sort of seems pointless to me to sell "practical" cars at such an impractical price, and to justify the price with the MB badge. At least BMW doesn't pretend the 1-series is practical in any way... (for the same price, the old 316, basic as it was, was a much more practical car) ...they sell it on pure snob/enthusiast appeal.

Mercedes doesn't get it. You don't sell luxury cars as "practical" things... you sell them for the luxury. Period.

It's the same question with the Volvo S40 and the Ford Focus. Would a luxury buyer get an S40 that looks like a tarted up Ford? I was driving down the road the other day, and I saw the prettiest Focus 1.8 Ghia I'd ever seen. When I got to the front, oops... it was a Volvo. Granted, after being in the S40, I can agree that it's a nice car... but to someone rich enough to afford it, wouldn't the Focus-connection make them hesitate?

Of course, this is all just personal opinion, and granted, A & B Class vehicles do sell. But as Jaguar has shown, you move too far downmarket (with the X-Type), and people start to question whether it's worth it to spend that extra money for a premium car, when a regular car will give you more space, performance and utility, with similar comfort, at a lower price. The X-Type is a practical car, yes. But as a Jaguar? When people started taking a good look at it, that's when Jaguar sales tanked.

That's why BMW created Mini... so as not to dilute the BMW name with "cheap" cars. Then they did it anyway with the 1-series... but it's still impractical enough to maintain that snob factor.

That's also why MB created "Smart", but they innovated just a bit too far, and spent too much money on it. Sayang... given the right price point, Smarts could've taken over the world... :lol:

[Monseratto]

Parang puro OT na ang mga sagot dito...

[niky]

Last: to note: I'm not bashing the A & B class because they're bad cars. They're decent cars, if only average in aspects regarding handling, acceleration and economy. I'm bashing them because they make no sense as Mercs. As "Smarts", they would. And if Mercedes wants to make the Smart Experiment work, they'd do well to put a Smart badge on those two.

Sorry for the super-O.T.

[empy]

sakay ako sa OT pero pramis ibabalik ko din sa topic.

i did a temporary consulting job awhile back for DaimlerChrysler, where my team and i were doing some logistics work for their A and B class factory in Cordoba, Argentina. (i can tell you about how 9 out of 10 babes there are equal in quality to Adriana Lima, pero wag na nating gawing super-OT ang OT )

anyway, i got a chance to see these cars from the inside out, understand their QC and assembly processes, and know where the materials are sourced and put together.

imho these cars are worth a nice premium over cars like the Vios. their materials and interiors are comparable to at least the C-class, the safety and driving tech is similar to those of its bigger cousins, and they are somewhat more comfortable than other super-small cars. maybe the only disadvantage i saw (and a recommendation we gave DC) was that their South American factories used much more manual and less sterile/low margin-of-error processes than their facilities in Germany, and this could increase their defect rate.

it might not be worth a price tag of x3 (magkano ba to sa pinas?) but it's a good alternative for people who need a small car for the fuel economy or small streets (like Argentina, Europe or maybe the Philippines), but still want some luxury and porma. it is not, however, a car for people who only buy premium cars to impress other people.

........

ok, so BTTT:

as usual the best advice is to test drive the cars back-to-back, preferably multiple times. if you've proven that you're a serious buyer and the seller doesn't let you take a test drive, tell them to go to hell and find another.

i test drove these cars back-to-back about a year ago (2.0T vs. 325i nga lang). i found the Audi heavier, less responsive, a bit slower and much more cramped in the back seat. the quattro did make it feel more stable, but at the cost of the much better driving dynamics of the bimmer (although it's no shame to come in second in handling to a BMW because everyone else in the world does too).

the big advantage the Audi has over the Bimmer is the interior. i really feel that Audi/VW are second-to-none in their respective classes in this category. to get an interior as nice as the A4's imho you'd have to get a top of the line 5 or 7-series. the A8? i would put that car's interior up against a Rolls or Maybach any day. seriously.

[ronald_m]

........

ok, so BTTT:

the big advantage the Audi has over the Bimmer is the interior. i really feel that Audi/VW are second-to-none in their respective classes in this category. to get an interior as nice as the A4's imho you'd have to get a top of the line 5 or 7-series. the A8? i would put that car's interior up against a Rolls or Maybach any day. seriously.

Yes,Audi hands down interior wise.I don't know where i read it,Audi won the best interior among their respecitive classes 3 years in a row.

[carwise]

Wow,Its way to overpriced.

sir maki sagot narin.yes even i will go for the bimmer diesel classier car.audi diesel very reliable 2 liter with cvt gearbox i would say an expensive golf or passat anyway they do have the same floor pan so why pay more.

[squala]

Talking about Euro cars in the RP market, they're really too expensive because of the big tax, mainly because most of them are still CBU. Maybe SKD or CKD versions will lower prices, but the demand is still too low for some of the manufacturers to consider assembling the cars here.

In other countries like Australia and Singapore, you can likewise get a nice Evo or WRX at the same price as an entry-level 3-Series. I should say luxury Euro cars are just too pricey. At least a 325i with the same price as a high-powered 4WD Jap should make more sense.

As for luxury brands like BMW and Benz, yup they started to go downmarket a few years ago, since the trend is drifting towards affordable, economical vehicles. But sadly, they missed the point. For example, the 1-Series is still more of a sports car than a practical one, let alone being the only RWD hatch in the market (apart from the mid-engined Renault Clio V6). And as was pointed out before, the rear seats are just too small to fit regular-sized adults comfortably. It's also significantly more expensive than other hatchbacks. That said, beating the hatch leaders such as the VW Golf is still a long way to go. The same is also true with the small FWD Mercs.

[niky]

The funny thing is, it's only here that we have the hang-ups of calling all Euro cars premium, where in Europe, it's not uncommon to cross-shop between a VW Golf and a Ford Focus on one end, and a VW Golf and a BMW 1-series on the other.

Here, the huge premium CBU Euro cars command ensure that you're not buying them merely for practical reasons.

By the way, I agree, Audi interiors > BMW interiors.

BTTT, to: Audi has the cheapest premium diesels here, and they're worth a look. I especially like the A4 Estate body. BMW really should work on bringing in their 2.0d models... and bringing back their estates, though, as I recall, they didn't sell very well (BMW estates... errh... wagons) the last time they sold here.

[boyscout]

get a true rwd car..go for bmw.... audi a4's are fwd para ka lang bumili ng overpriced jap car. BMW Ultimate driving machine.......