Which 2-liter Car to Buy?

[GTi]

I have read that the 7th gen K24 Accord was more fuel efficient than the older 6th gen F23. It is the 7th gen K20 which has higher FC. My neighbor who has a stock 8th gen K24 Accord said he can do 7 km/L on the usual Sucat-Makati route, and the 8th gen is way bigger than the 6th gen.

It would be great if you can get 7-8 km/L on the 2.3L Mazda6 but it's possible that you will be doing only around 6-7 km/L.

It probably is, if it's matic to matic, courtesy of the newer engine design and extra gear. But ours isn't known for it's fuel efficiency. Around 7km/L on a South Triangle, QC to Valenzuela route (via Mindanao Ave). Light footed driving. With "normal" driving habits, it'll dip to the vicinity of 6km/L more or less. It's a real solid car though. Cabin materials are very durable. Leather seats still look very new despite lack of conditioning (and at 91tkms mileage). Electronic seat adjustment works like a charm with no weird noises whatsoever (unlike some same-era Camry's I've ridden).

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[jut703]

While waiting for a Mazda 6 seller to come along, I started thinking about whether it's really worth it to get a 6 over a 3.

Assuming their purchase price would be the same (~350k), the Mz6 is still thirstier at the pump. This will be my daily drive so I'll be racking up about 15,000 km a year. If the 6 does 6 km/L and the 3 does 7 km/L, that's a difference of P1,500 per month. Other maintenance costs will most likely be more expensive with the 6 as well. I can afford the cost, but of course I can also invest the 1.5k elsewhere.

On the flipside, the added fuel cost comes in exchange for much better performance. The 6 is faster both in terms of acceleration and top speed than the 3. However, the 3's performance is already good enough for me. I appreciate the extra grunt of the 6, but I can live with what the 3 offers. If I begin to want more, I can always chip the 3, but then the cost of the chip would offset a year's worth of fuel savings.

In terms of features, the only things that the 6 has that the 3 doesn't are the side/curtain airbags, traction control, and power driver's seat adjustment. These are stuff I can live without. The 3 even has aux-in which the 6 doesn't, and that's more useful on a daily basis.

However, the 6 still has more presence than a 3, being 1 class higher and thus bigger in every dimension. While both designs are timeless, I think the 6 still looks more expensive, but maybe that's just me.

Previously, I thought the 6 was the better bargain. I mean, if both cars were sold at the 3's brand new price of 1.1M, wouldn't you have gone for the 6? Now though that I begin to consider cost of ownership, I wonder if it's still the runaway winner...



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[EQAddict]

id save the money (350K) wait a bit and save more and get a brand new car in a few months time. Those cars are way too old.

[jut703]

id save the money (350K) wait a bit and save more and get a brand new car in a few months time. Those cars are way too old.

I don't mind an old car. They're 1/3 the price of equivalent brand new cars. I don't need the new car smell or happiness of buying something new. I prefer getting the most value and it's with depreciated stuff that I often find it.

These Mazdas have no known issues and most Mazda 3 owners that I know can attest that their ownership has been worry-free.

I don't mind tinkering my car for minor niggles and for major replacements I don't mind scouring Banawe or Evangelista for parts.

The idea of going brand new begs me to ask - why spend triple when a much cheaper option can do all the things I need it to do?


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[EQAddict]

i don't mind buying 2nd hand cars myself Though I must admit my preference is brand new.

Since you are a value minded shopper I guess this works. Good luck with your car hunting.

[leodawesome]

While waiting for a Mazda 6 seller to come along, I started thinking about whether it's really worth it to get a 6 over a 3.

Assuming their purchase price would be the same (~350k), the Mz6 is still thirstier at the pump. This will be my daily drive so I'll be racking up about 15,000 km a year. If the 6 does 6 km/L and the 3 does 7 km/L, that's a difference of P1,500 per month. Other maintenance costs will most likely be more expensive with the 6 as well. I can afford the cost, but of course I can also invest the 1.5k elsewhere.

On the flipside, the added fuel cost comes in exchange for much better performance. The 6 is faster both in terms of acceleration and top speed than the 3. However, the 3's performance is already good enough for me. I appreciate the extra grunt of the 6, but I can live with what the 3 offers. If I begin to want more, I can always chip the 3, but then the cost of the chip would offset a year's worth of fuel savings.

In terms of features, the only things that the 6 has that the 3 doesn't are the side/curtain airbags, traction control, and power driver's seat adjustment. These are stuff I can live without. The 3 even has aux-in which the 6 doesn't, and that's more useful on a daily basis.

However, the 6 still has more presence than a 3, being 1 class higher and thus bigger in every dimension. While both designs are timeless, I think the 6 still looks more expensive, but maybe that's just me.

Previously, I thought the 6 was the better bargain. I mean, if both cars were sold at the 3's brand new price of 1.1M, wouldn't you have gone for the 6? Now though that I begin to consider cost of ownership, I wonder if it's still the runaway winner...



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18k more per year on gas alone vs. 1 tier higher + overall safety and performance package.

Maintenance, I bet they wouldn't be that far between the two. Since 2nd hand naman sya di mo na need ipasok sa casa palagi. Masmahirap nga lang maghanap ng parts ni 6.

[jut703]

What about the '06-'08 Ford Focus TDCi MT?
Napunta na rin naman sa practicality yung usapan, it seems that this car best balances practicality with performance.

Previously, I crossed it out because Focus TDCi units were still around 450k. However, there are 2008 units now only at 390k, which is quite close to the price of a Mz3/Mz6.

Pros:
- FAST (0-100 in 9.5s, no sweat reaching 200, making it as fast as the Mz6 and faster than the Mz3)
- VERY FRUGAL (10 km/L in city driving, and it's a diesel)
- Manual transmission (more engaging and enjoyable for me, no Powershift issues)
- Good handling (more nose-heavy than the Mz3, but otherwise similar since they share the same platform)

Cons:
- Ugly rims (needs to be upgraded to 18" with 1.5" lowering springs)
- Ugly interior (no choice but to live with it)
- Not as prestigious as a Mazda 6

Assuming I can haggle to 380k, I still have to change my wheels which will cost more or less 40k, and then lowering springs, which will cost 15k, and possibly projector headlamps (25k). That brings the total to 460k, all in.

It seems that it's much more expensive than a Mz6 now, but once you factor fuel costs, winner pa rin. Assuming I travel 1,250 km a month, with the Mz6 doing 6 km/L, the Mz3 doing 7 km/L, and the Focus doing 9 km/L; gas at 52 and diesel at 45, my monthly fuel costs will be:

Mazda 6: P10,833/mo
Mazda 3: P9,285/mo
Focus TDCi: P5,625/mo

That's savings of over 5k/month compared to the Mz6, and 3.6k/month compared to the Mz3. If the Mz6 is 330k, I can recoup the extra cost of the Focus in a little over 2 years. If the Mz3 is at 320k, it only takes 3.5 years to recover the cost.

[[archie]]

Practicality on FC yes... Parts no.

Walang dulo yung focus but I guess that don't matter since hindi naman Kailangan to go beyond 140km/h.

[GTi]

The 3 2.0L isn't really that much more fuel efficient compared to the 6 2.3L. I doubt it can get 7km/L in rush hour city driving. It's like comparing the FC of the FD 2.0 with the Accord 2.4. Very minimal difference, if any at all. Want something upscale, fast and fuel efficient? I'd suggest you save a bit more and get a Santa Fe. Older units go for 500+k with some negotiation. Sonata-based platform ensures midsize sedan-like ride and handling. Powerful diesel engine is a match for typical 2.4L midsize sedan engines in terms of performance.

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[jut703]

The 3 2.0L isn't really that much more fuel efficient compared to the 6 2.3L. I doubt it can get 7km/L in rush hour city driving. It's like comparing the FC of the FD 2.0 with the Accord 2.4. Very minimal difference, if any at all. Want something upscale, fast and fuel efficient? I'd suggest you save a bit more and get a Santa Fe. Older units go for 500+k with some negotiation. Sonata-based platform ensures midsize sedan-like ride and handling. Powerful diesel engine is a match for typical 2.4L midsize sedan engines in terms of performance.

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I'm sure that the 3 2.0 will get 7 km/L because it's even more efficient than our old Altis 2.0 4AT which I could squeeze out 7 km/L in my usual city driving (not always rush hour since I also have weekend runs and I sometimes don't go along with the rush hour on weekdays).

I'm also fairly certain that the 6 is about 1 km/L more thirsty. And 1 km/L from 6 to 7 km/L is already 17% more. Unless you're saying that if the 3 gets 7 km/L, the 6 can get 6.5 km/L.

The Santa Fe looks cheap and old to me, and again, expensive. It was nice during its time because of the 200hp but it was never pretty. The Sorento looks good to me but still way too expensive since earliest you could get is a 2010 model. Also, I look at expenses on a 5-year horizon and 500+k for a Santa Fe is just not recoverable vs. a 3/6/Focus.



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[jut703]

Practicality on FC yes... Parts no.

Walang dulo yung focus but I guess that don't matter since hindi naman Kailangan to go beyond 140km/h.

Agree, pareho lang silang tatlo na mahal piyesa so more of FC lang talaga labanan sa running costs.

The Focus accelerates slower from 160-200 than the 6 but panalo siya sa 0-160 which is more important. Plus manual so it feels more engaging.


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[Chikselog]

Saw this in FB. Is this the Accord you're looking for? You might wanna check Buy and Sell pages sa FB. P135k daw last price sabi sa comment hehe.




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[GTi]

I'm sure that the 3 2.0 will get 7 km/L because it's even more efficient than our old Altis 2.0 4AT which I could squeeze out 7 km/L in my usual city driving (not always rush hour since I also have weekend runs and I sometimes don't go along with the rush hour on weekdays).

I'm also fairly certain that the 6 is about 1 km/L more thirsty. And 1 km/L from 6 to 7 km/L is already 17% more. Unless you're saying that if the 3 gets 7 km/L, the 6 can get 6.5 km/L.

The Santa Fe looks cheap and old to me, and again, expensive. It was nice during its time because of the 200hp but it was never pretty. The Sorento looks good to me but still way too expensive since earliest you could get is a 2010 model. Also, I look at expenses on a 5-year horizon and 500+k for a Santa Fe is just not recoverable vs. a 3/6/Focus.



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I suppose it depends on one's driving habits and route. I really can't imagine a 2.0 4AT getting 7km/L with me. :D If you can get that to squeeze out 7km/L, I'm sure you'd be able to get better than just 6km/L in the 6. We were able to get 7km/L out of our Accord after all.

Having both a 2005 Accord and a 2011 Santa Fe, I'd say the cabin quality is actually pretty much similar. Definitely not cheap-ish and not at all plasticky like many SUVs.

The Focus is a good proposition. But then, I really don't like the interior and that's where you'd be spending countless hours in. If only it had the Mazda 3 interior...


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[jut703]

Saw this in FB. Is this the Accord you're looking for? You might wanna check Buy and Sell pages sa FB. P135k daw last price sabi sa comment hehe.




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Thanks bro, but I removed the Accord from my shortlist na. Masyado na luma and the probability of needing major repairs is much higher than a much younger 3/6/Focus.

Plus AT pa yang binibenta so pass for me


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[jut703]

Here are my computations for the 5-year running costs of my 3 options (+ bnew Fiesta just for comparison).



In terms of cost, the Focus comes out the cheapest, the Mz3 in the middle, and the Mz6 the most expensive, with a 115k gap between the 6 and Focus in 5 years (assuming only 12,000 km/yr). This increases to 170k if annual distance is 15,000 km/yr. Interesting to note that either of the 3 choices are much much cheaper than going for a brand new Fiesta which is slower and smaller.

In summary, my verdict of the 3 options are:
* Mazda 6 - best car overall, but expensive to maintain even if purchase price is cheap
* Mazda 3 - somewhere in the middle, less performance than the 6/Focus, but looks much better than the Focus and almost as good as the 6
* Focus - most practical choice, but I just can't appreciate its interior, while the exterior still needs some upgrades (already factored in)

One more thing that popped in my mind - what's the usual lifespan of the turbo of a CRDi? Going with the Focus might end up breaking the bank if the turbo/injectors break down within 5 years.

[GTi]

One more thing that popped in my mind - what's the usual lifespan of the turbo of a CRDi? Going with the Focus might end up breaking the bank if the turbo/injectors break down within 5 years.

Depends really on how you use the car. If you use it the way many taxi drivers use their Accent CRDi's, it wouldn't need 5 years to break down. If you take good care of it, I'm sure it'll still run like brand new 15 years later. As they say, you take care of the car, the car takes care of you. Perform maintenance religiously every 5000 kms, load up with clean diesel, preferably Unioil (Euro 4) or Seaoil (Euro 3 + STP additives), and let the turbo "cool down" by idling for a couple of minutes before shutoff. And then again, the Focus employs the Bosch CRDi system if I'm not mistaken. It's known to be much more reliable than the finicky Japanese Denso units.

I also really doubt that you'd be able to find a Mazda 6 2.3 for just 320k. They're rare in the 2nd hand market, and have significantly higher resale than a Camry or Accord of similar vintage.

[GTi]

double post

[Egan101]

*jut703 - are you looking at the Fiesta 1.5L NA or the 1.0L Ecoboost?

[jut703]

Depends really on how you use the car. If you use it the way many taxi drivers use their Accent CRDi's, it wouldn't need 5 years to break down. If you take good care of it, I'm sure it'll still run like brand new 15 years later. As they say, you take care of the car, the car takes care of you. Perform maintenance religiously every 5000 kms, load up with clean diesel, preferably Unioil (Euro 4) or Seaoil (Euro 3 + STP additives), and let the turbo "cool down" by idling for a couple of minutes before shutoff. And then again, the Focus employs the Bosch CRDi system if I'm not mistaken. It's known to be much more reliable than the finicky Japanese Denso units.

I also really doubt that you'd be able to find a Mazda 6 2.3 for just 320k. They're rare in the 2nd hand market, and have significantly higher resale than a Camry or Accord of similar vintage.

Thing is, I don't know how the previous owner used it. Which makes it risky to get a turbodiesel secondhand.

For Mazda 6s, I've seen 3 priced at 295k, 310k, and 328k. Very un-filipino to price it more than a Camry or Accord.


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[jut703]

*jut703 - are you looking at the Fiesta 1.5L NA or the 1.0L Ecoboost?

Neither. I just included the Ecoboost as comparison for bnew vs secondhand. Too pricey for me.


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