nid help for a newbie

[dalandan27]

hi guys! bago lang ako dito, newbie pag dating sa sounds setup, recently bought a honda civic sir-99, at balak ko setupan ng kahit konti lng sounds, d nman totally setup kasi wla ako big budget at student p lang, step by step kumbaga,

inuna ko na ang HU na palitan, from Kenwood to Pioneer DEH-2250UBG..
then sabi nung mekaniko namin parang na setupan na daw ung kotse na un pero tinanggal, kasi parang palit na daw ang front speakers, tas mei ryan audio na tweeter, ill post some pics,
front speakers:


tweeters:

HU:


hindi ko alam kung anong model at size nung sony na un. nag ka idea lang ako na baka siguro ndi na stocks ung speakers n un, sa rear naman eh stocks speaker lng..
medyo naguguluhan ako dun sa seps at coax, ganito po ba un? ang seps eh ung speaker sa unahan pati mga tweeters, at coax eh yung mga 6x9 n rear speakers?

nagbabalak po kasi akong bumili ng pioneer na 6x9 400w 3way speakers,eh ngaun sa pagbabasa ko dito eh bakit hindi daw subs at ampli ang unahin. eh sa lagay ko naman eh wala pa akong budget para pambili ng subs at ampli kaya yang muna and later on saka na lang ako bumili..

queries:
-ok lang ba bilhin ko muna yung 6x9 speakers para mag iba naman ang sounds ko?
-kung bibilhin ko, need ko pa ba ng ampflier para makaya yung 400w na yun? kasi ang tanging amp lang eh yung sa player ko na mosfet 50wx4.
-pano ma config nang ayos ung tone control at fade/balance ng HU ko. sabi kasi nila na gawing subs na lang yung 6x9 in short bass lang, tapos sa front speakers eh ung mga highs at mid..i'm pointing out dun sa mid: +6/-6 ano ba dapat jan? at dun sa fad/bal, san ako mgfofocus? front o rear??

salamat po ng madami! sana ma enlighten nio ako dito.. thanks!!

[dalandan27]

bump po..kung pwede dito,, puru views pa lang,, wala reply.hehe

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[jhnkvn]

No wonder nagugulhan ka. What the previous owner did is replace the front speakers for co-axials and then he bought a standalone tweeter for the dashboard. In other words, you have two tweeters and one woofer.

-ok lang ba bilhin ko muna yung 6x9 speakers para mag iba naman ang sounds ko?
-kung bibilhin ko, need ko pa ba ng ampflier para makaya yung 400w na yun? kasi ang tanging amp lang eh yung sa player ko na mosfet 50wx4.
-pano ma config nang ayos ung tone control at fade/balance ng HU ko. sabi kasi nila na gawing subs na lang yung 6x9 in short bass lang, tapos sa front speakers eh ung mga highs at mid..i'm pointing out dun sa mid: +6/-6 ano ba dapat jan? at dun sa fad/bal, san ako mgfofocus? front o rear??

1. I suggest you give your budget first. If it were me, I'll remove the tweeters at the dash (although Ryan Audio is not a bad brand ), I'll switch the sony coaxials to the rear replacing the stock rear speakers (because whatever you do, aftermarket speakers are still better than stock) and buy a decent separate for the front. Depende sa budget talaga eh, but I'll try to sneak an entry-level DLS or Focal kung kaya. If not, Morel and Cadence works.

2. The 400W rated on the Pioneer is its peak power. Check for the nominal power or the power that it "normally" uses. If it's 50W or under that, you can power your speakers just using the HU. If it's more than that, you can still power it using your HU but you'll lack a full-bodied sound because you lack sufficient power.

3. If you're the one doing the driving, you always fade it to the front. Fading it to the back is like watching a live concert na nakatalikod ka.. Kahit ano gawin mo, woofers are not supposed to be for "bass" only. Just place it at the back and use it as normal. It'll be weird if you give it bass duties eh meron tweeter nakadikit

---

Judging by what you are doing, okay lang naman bumili part-by-part eh. In fact, I encourage it since talaga nakikita mo yun improvements.

For reference, you might want to check out Mickey's AutoSounds' webpage. I-google mo nalang. They serve as a good reference point in knowing the prices. Sympre kung bibili ka sa mga shops sa Banawe, masmura. But it helps na alam mo yun prices para di ka ma-scam kung sinu-sino man..

[dalandan27]

sir jhnkvn. thanks sa pag enlighten.. nag iba ngayon sir scenario ko, pinatry sakin ng pinsan ko yung hindi niya ginagamit na subs at amp, 2months nang tinaggal sa auto niya.

bale pinakabit ko sir yung dalwa.
subs: Sony Xplod 12-Inch 1200-Watt Subwoofer (XSL121P5) ported yung box(eto lang ginastusan ko at yung labor)
amp: MRV-F407 1000-Watt 4-Channel

ok naman siya(so far), kung gusto ko daw ako muna ang gumamit.. now, parang nakukulungan ako sa vocals, kaya naisip ko na baka dito papasok yung seperates speaker, ang ginawa ko sa HU ko eh, fade sa front eh 8, tapos bass + 5 mid +4 treble +6

now, if may 3k-5k ako, makakabili ba ako ng decent separate speakers? yung mga inaalok kasi sakin dun sa pinag papaausan ko dito sa province namin e morel, fidelity, mb quarts din ata? at di ko na tanda yung iba.
and isa pa po, pwede ko ba xang dun na lang din iconnect sa amplifier ko? or bibili pa ako ng ibang amp?.. kung hindi ko na need na bumili ng amp eh mga hanggang anong wattage ang pupuwede ko bilihin na separates?

goal ko sana eh yung mga speaker sa loob ng kotse ay pure vocals less bass, at ung subs eh bass lang.. sabi ng pinsan ko eh iconnect ko din daw sa amp ung mga stocks na speaker ko sa ngayon, kaso naisip ko hindi ba maagawan yung sa subs??

TIA po sir!

[jhnkvn]

Kung 3-5k lang yun budget for the separates, you don't really need to power it using an amplifier. Kahit HU lang okay na since most speakers at that range don't consume too much wattage. When I stated "most", it's because not all speakers at that range are power-misers (aka hindi malakas kumain ng wattage). For example, entry-level DLS X-Programs take in a happy 50W while similarly priced Morels hog 80W.

In either case, kayang kaya mo i-connect yan sa amplifier mo if you want. Just listen to them at a decent volume since kung 100% mo yan, di kaya ng amp mo (besides, baduy na mga boom-boom na malakas..)

For speakers: Hindi naman ako particular sa mga brands. But you're in safe hands sa mga reputable brands. Rather than the pang-masa Pioneers, step up into the likes of Morels, DLS, Focal kung kaya.. etc.

MB Quartz used to make competitive speakers, hangang ngayon okay parin sila but over the years.. their sales lagged. Plus, meron sila mga issues dati regarding quality. And so, I'll avoid them unless malaki yun discount nila (parang dati nagka-sale yun Mickey's AutoSounds ng Quartz..)

Morels take 2nd place. I like their tonal quality but their highs might leave you a bit dazed. Madami umaagal that they're too "bright"

DLS is a rising competitor to Focal. Madami na rin nagconvert to DLS especially after hearing their UP6

Focal still remains the industry leader IMO and their brand name alones carry some value . Probably biased lang cguro ako since I was spoiled with their PolyKevlar lineup...

Verdict: I think you should first "hear" them. Mga ibang tao ayaw sa morel due to their treble range, but I'm pretty fine with it. Magpa-audition ka muna kamo since iba iba taste natin.

You should also check out the bang per buck thread.. I'll just quote Kawawang Koboy sa isang post niya:

Kung [SIZE=4]clarity[/SIZE] talaga ang hanap mo paps e medyo konting stretch lang naman sa budget mo ang kailangan and try to consider these Entry Level Seps:

Morel Maximo 6.5" 2way - 5.7k
Cadence Seps 6.5" 2way - 4.8k to 6.4 (depends on the model)
DLS X-Program 6.5" 2way - 4.7k
Auditor (Focal sister brand to) 6.5" 2-way - 4.8k

IMHO, mas swabe (at hindi matalas) ang tunog ng mga ito kesa the cheaper brands (I rather won't mention these brands na pinagdaanan ko din before when I was just starting)...anyway, it still up to you...pede rin naman yung cheaper ones...medyo hahabulin na lang sa pagtotono which still highly depends on the capabilities/functionalities of your Head Unit - HU (dapat may Time Alignment, EQ and crossover setting, etc.) and proper aiming and most importantly the expertise of the nagtotono

.....sabi nga ng ilan dyan na you generally get what you pay for in the audio world..

...again.. this is IMHO lang po ha...

So, for me:

Top-Tier: Focal, DLS
2nd Tier: Morel, Cadence

P.S. Wala akong opinions about Fidelity. Targa's quite good too.. bang per buck talaga.. pero kung kaya mo mag-Morel, go for it. Don't compromise on seps..they comprise most of your listening experience.

[dalandan27]

thanks sa reply sir, so ang talagang hahanapin ko eh targa,focal,dls.. kakasya naman siguro ito sa 3-5k and if ever na lalagpas eh dagdagan ko na lang ng mga 3-6k. hindi ko kaya mag canvass sa manila area kasi di ko alam pasikot sikot jan.haha..

if ever me makikita ako dito sa amin na seps that you had mention eh mag pa audi na lang ako muna.. then if ever mei mabibili na ako eh paano ko ba malalaman if kakayanin sya ng amp ko? ang amp ko eh yun pong v12 1200w na 4channel na mrv-f407 na ang nakakonekta pa lamang ay 350 watts rms at ang peak ay 1000w.

anong mga separates at mga rms value at wattage value ang hahanapin ko para ma fully maximize ko yung potential ng seps kung isasaksak ko sa amp ko ngaun?? thanks po!!

[dalandan27]

thanks sa reply sir, so ang talagang hahanapin ko eh targa,focal,dls.. kakasya naman siguro ito sa 3-5k and if ever na lalagpas eh dagdagan ko na lang ng mga 3-6k. hindi ko kaya mag canvass sa manila area kasi di ko alam pasikot sikot jan.haha..

if ever me makikita ako dito sa amin na seps that you had mention eh mag pa audi na lang ako muna.. then if ever mei mabibili na ako eh paano ko ba malalaman if kakayanin sya ng amp ko? ang amp ko eh yun pong v12 1200w na 4channel na mrv-f407 na ang nakakonekta pa lamang ay 350 watts rms at ang peak ay 1000w.

anong mga separates at mga rms value at wattage value ang hahanapin ko para ma fully maximize ko yung potential ng seps kung isasaksak ko sa amp ko ngaun?? thanks po!!

bump ko lang po.. advanced happy new year!!

[jhnkvn]

thanks sa reply sir, so ang talagang hahanapin ko eh targa,focal,dls.. kakasya naman siguro ito sa 3-5k and if ever na lalagpas eh dagdagan ko na lang ng mga 3-6k. hindi ko kaya mag canvass sa manila area kasi di ko alam pasikot sikot jan.haha..

if ever me makikita ako dito sa amin na seps that you had mention eh mag pa audi na lang ako muna.. then if ever mei mabibili na ako eh paano ko ba malalaman if kakayanin sya ng amp ko? ang amp ko eh yun pong v12 1200w na 4channel na mrv-f407 na ang nakakonekta pa lamang ay 350 watts rms at ang peak ay 1000w.

anong mga separates at mga rms value at wattage value ang hahanapin ko para ma fully maximize ko yung potential ng seps kung isasaksak ko sa amp ko ngaun?? thanks po!!

All separates at that price range would work. So don't worry too much about it. I simply warned on maxing the volume due to the peak power output of your subwoofer which would eat your amplifier alive. Then again, you really shouldn't max your volume.. maawa ka sa tenga mo, bro! :D

Most of us go for the path of dual amplifiers where one amp powers the separates and the other amplifier (usually a monoblock [1-channel] amplifier) powers the subwoofer. Of course, those you see in audio car shows have more... some even have more than 10.

[dalandan27]

yep, hindi naman ako ganong tao,. naawa din ako sa tenga at sa tenga ng mga sakay ko, tama na yung 12 volume.hehe..

eh sa tingin mo sir sa budget ko ngayon, seps na ba talaga unahin ko? baka kasi matagalan pa ako bago bumili ng new amp kagaya dun sa sinasabi mo na "most eh nag dadalawang amp"

plano ko kasi maghanap bukas or after new year sir e..

[jhnkvn]

Go for the seps. Definitely would hear a better improvement to your Sony coaxials

Afterwards, most people would stop at this point. It's a basic audio layout: sep, amp, sub. If you want to step it up a notch, it'll begin to be expensive.

First thing is a better amplifier. Budget around 10k so you have room for your separates to "grow" (since seps increase in nominal RMS the more expensive it gets.. ex. 120W na Focal PolyKevlar (Php20k+) vs sa mga 50W ng Php5k seps.

Afterwards, you can either get a better pair of seps or a better woofer. I'd go for the better seps since most of the sound you'll be hearing would come from them. Woofers comes afterwards for me.

Some opts to buy an equalizer. Contrary to popular opinion that the EQ should be adjusted to suit your taste, the EQ is normally just adjusted to compensate for your car's audio deficiency. So the correct usage of it is just a one-time calibration done by an audio specialist (ikaw, kung kaya mo )

But one of the best and most apparent benefits would come from: sound deadening materials on your doors. This reduces overall outside noise. Think of it like switching from stock Apple iPod earphones to IEMs (in-ears). Less noise = less sound (good for your ears), more details (since less noise), and better yet, less stress (sa mga jeepney na katabi mong maingay )

[dalandan27]

seps na lang nga muna, merong inaalok sakin ung isang shop dito na DLS, di ko lang natanong kung UP6 or X-program or whatsoever, 4.5k yung price dito and negotiable pa daw, libre na ang labor pag sa kanila binili yung seps, so sa tingin mo sir, ok na ba ang DLS na to?

kung makakabili ako nito eh siguro tigil muna ako dito, next year na ulit gastusan ang more expensive amp and etc.

about sound deadening, ang alam ko mahal ang aabutin nito kapag mga pinto,compartment ang pinaganito, but very effective naman daw at ma ririnig mo ang difference. pero mahal, saka na muna siguro.

[beni23]

Bro, I think ang inooffer sayo nung shop is DLS X-SD62, entry level separates ng DLS. I suggest try mo muna i-audi yung speaker. It's a decent set of speakers.

IMO, ok na ito kasi sabi mo nga di ka rin ganun kalakas magpatugtog. Ipainstall mo ito sa amp channel mo, 4 channel naman yung amp mo. Pero sigurado ako mangangati ka in the future at magaupgrade ka. Hehe.


Upgrade itch!

[dalandan27]

i see, baka nga yun nga ung inoofer na DLS, magkano po ba price range ng UP6?? yun ba yung ka kumpetensya ng focal?

pwede naman nga siguro i pa audi ko, pero pag maganda naman eh ito na gagamitin kong seps, at kung meron pa iba ioffer sakin dun eh itanong ko sa inyo at baka meron kayong review/experience dun sa seps n yun,

so iconnect ko sya sa amp, and then yung rear speakers as HU na lang?

saka na yung pag uupgrade sa future haha..
thanks!

[beni23]

i see, baka nga yun nga ung inoofer na DLS, magkano po ba price range ng UP6?? yun ba yung ka kumpetensya ng focal?

pwede naman nga siguro i pa audi ko, pero pag maganda naman eh ito na gagamitin kong seps, at kung meron pa iba ioffer sakin dun eh itanong ko sa inyo at baka meron kayong review/experience dun sa seps n yun,

so iconnect ko sya sa amp, and then yung rear speakers as HU na lang?

saka na yung pag uupgrade sa future haha..
thanks!

Ang alam ko price ng UP6 is 17k+, not sure though. Also, I suggest you upgrade your amplifier immediately, may bad experiences kasi ako sa V12.

Yes bro, yung rear speakers sa HU na lang. In fact kahit di mo na gamitin ang rear speakers mo. HU + DLS seps + a good sub + konting tono = :2thumbsup:

[dalandan27]

thanks sir, di ko pala kaya yung UP6 na un, but ung Xprograms is good na ba? meron dun MB quartz, but sabi naman ni sir jhnkvn, 1st tier nia ung focal at dls, 2nd tier eh morel,cadence,. san kaya jan papatak ang mb quartz?

about the ampli, baka mga february o march na muna yun, mag iipon muna ulet.. meron na din naman siguro sa 3-5k na bang for the buck na ampflier.

regardin rear speakers, hindi ko maitodo yung box ng subs ko paloob, dahil nung magnet ata ng rear, pag tinanggal ko ba yung rear eh kasama na yung magnet? sasabit kasi pag tinodo ko yung box. pagkakamali ko hindi ko napasukatan muna, basta na lang nabili yung box..

[jhnkvn]

Based on personal listening preference lang yan. in fact, I like Morels as much as I want Focals. Pero umiiba yun mga mukha ng tao kapag ni-introduce mo yun sounds mo as "Focals" eh It's brand-name power.

But between Morels and Quartz? Nasa Morels ako. Quartz is still good, make no mistake, but I think Morels offer a better bang-per-buck nowadays. Pero abot sa mga ganito, personal opinions lang ito. The best way to know if it suits you is if you audition it.

For a brief overview, these are most probably your choices:

Morels


DLS X-Program
For some reason di ko malagyan ng image tags so URL nalang: (http://www.mickeysautosound.com/comp...DjFhRUESKw.jpg)

MB Quartz
(http://lacaraccessories.com/componen...c28ff56c8f.jpg)

Frankly, I'll go for the Morels. I think DLS skimped a bit on the "packaging" sa X-Program nila, but since I haven't hear the sound, I won't give out opinions about it.

Focal's entry-level Access lineup is still expensive kahit sabihin natin "entry". It's priced around 7-8k AFAIK. It's peer is DLS RS6.

[dalandan27]

may pinapatry sakin dito yung shop na pinagpapagawaan ko, ok naman yung mga naging feed back nung iba bout dun sa seps, Firland audio EV-622w seperates,sabi nila eh ok naman daw at pinaparinig sa akin nung isang naka firland, 3,500php xa, ok daw ito kung bang per buck, yung tira ko na lang daw na sana eh pang morel/mb quartz eh ipunin ko para makabili ng good amp/subs. dahil ang subs ko nga eh pamana lang sa akin,

any review or comment po sir dito sa firland audio na ev-622w? sa facebook ko lang nakita / na search sila,

TIA sir!

[jhnkvn]

Most of the time, you'll be listening to your separates so give all you got on your separates. Personally, I don't compromise on just two stuff: speakers and amplifiers.

[dalandan27]

sir, buhayin ko lang po ito, mei inaalok sa akin na v12 nv-805 (keylargo) pa daw, i dont know kung ano itong keylargo pero sabi niya eh classA brand + JBL GT5-12 12" = 5k po mei box na ported na. ok lang po ba siya? mabubusog ba ng amp na yan ang JBL na yan pag bridged? kung tama ang pag ka intindi ko sa bridged ay +wire ng subs eh sa ch1 at -wire ng subs eh sa ch2. tas ung ch3 at 4 eh sa seps na lang, sa tingin nio po mga sir?