audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[jhnkvn]

There are advantages and disadvantages of coaxial and separates. But generally speaking, if you can get separates up your frontstage, I'll prefer it over coaxials. Since the tweeter is often placed in the dash (or sail panel), the main benefit of separates is that of a higher soundstage. In other words, you hear the music ear-level rather than hearing them from your feet and this is generally desirable

This does not mean that coaxials are inferior. Heck, if I could fit a coaxial on my A-pillars I'd be happy to do so. Coaxials have the advantage of being close to the ideal loudspeaker design also called point source where the drivers are near to each other and thus are easier to tune (based on the time and distance it takes for the sound to reach the ears). But oftentimes, having a coaxial in the dash is unfeasible due to it's size problems ;)


Wala akong experience with DLS Performance separates. But knowing the brand, they should be good naman. Put them in stock speaker locations and get separates at the front pare then coaxials at the back. Even if you have them head unit powered, they should still be significantly better than the stock paper cones. Kilangan ba ng amplifier? I would highly recommend it para masmabusog yun speaker

Sa Maspro ka ba magpapagawa? :Naughty2:

[mateomarco]

Sir jhnkvn, just a wild question...If in case we were able to place a coax sa pillars, do we use the tweeters included or use a different/separate tweeters instead? TIA!

[poochie02]

i hope ok lang pa recommend d2 ng cd/mpr with bass bayo output, i mean yung halos puro bass lng sound na lumalabas..
recommend po kau mga ser ng artist or title ng music.. currently using LW-pro and bear share pang search thanks..

[jhnkvn]

Sir jhnkvn, just a wild question...If in case we were able to place a coax sa pillars, do we use the tweeters included or use a different/separate tweeters instead? TIA!

You may use either. I would recommend using the provided tweeter since... "nandyan na rin eh". Besides, swapping the tweeter out with another might pose problems. For example, swapping the tweeter out for a large-format tweeter "big tweeter" like those of DLS Scandanavias or Scanspeak is almost impossible conventionally.

*poochie
Most bass heads use a specific type of music that's tuned well with their ported box frequency. I like Pendulum and Lil' Jon for my bass days~

[rain_012]

good day to all! i'm a newbie when it comes to sound set ups and i've been lurking this site for about a week now. i would just like
to know from our masters here, esp. to sir jhnkvn and sir jon.. i'm planning to have my honda jazz ge set up. i'm planning to get a
fascia panel kit for this head unit KENWOOD MP3-USB-iPOD-BNW DPX-MP6110U DIRECT-IPOD (which is also has a 24 D/A Converter,from what i've heard it reproduces mp3s and other files to cd or near cd quality sound - meaning clean, clear and crisp sounding),
what do you guys think?
also, i would like to ask for suggestions on what good seps should i get for the front and coaxials for rear (are coaxials good for the rear? or should i leave it as stock?) i can get for a budget of 12-15k? would be nice if in that price range the amps, wiring and
installation are already factored in. by the way, the sound that i want in my ride is clean, clear and crisp but with a little
more than average bass (smooth bass, not the hard hitting one that rattles your ride, and not to mention your brains ). i'm more into jazz/live/r&b but with a little of hiphop and alternatives pa rin from time to time, so what speakers would be best for
these genres kaya?.. i've been there and i love bass, but i'm over that stage now. i'm more refined -- in short, tumatanda na! and besides, ayaw kong maaway ng mapapangasawa ko. hehehe.. please indicate the brand and model so i can check them out and know how they look also.

pahabol: if ever i'm going to need a sub also, would an 8" or 10" be enough? i'm eyeing on this one kasi sana, ROCKFORD FOSGATE 8" P1 SUBWOOFER P1S48 300W --- is it good sounding (smooth)? and would it compliment the seps/coaxials that you'll recommend?or do you have any other suggestions (and kung kakasya ba sa 15k budget ko kasama ang subs, o baka sa tingin nyo di ko na
kailangan ng subs dahil maso-solve na ako sa seps/coaxials na maibibigay nyo sirs)?

thank you so much kind sirs! mabuhay po kayo at patuloy na makatulong sa aming newbies!

[jhnkvn]

good day to all! i'm a newbie when it comes to sound set ups and i've been lurking this site for about a week now. i would just like
to know from our masters here, esp. to sir jhnkvn and sir jon.. i'm planning to have my honda jazz ge set up. i'm planning to get a
fascia panel kit for this head unit KENWOOD MP3-USB-iPOD-BNW DPX-MP6110U DIRECT-IPOD (which is also has a 24 D/A Converter,from what i've heard it reproduces mp3s and other files to cd or near cd quality sound - meaning clean, clear and crisp sounding),
what do you guys think?
also, i would like to ask for suggestions on what good seps should i get for the front and coaxials for rear (are coaxials good for the rear? or should i leave it as stock?) i can get for a budget of 12-15k? would be nice if in that price range the amps, wiring and
installation are already factored in. by the way, the sound that i want in my ride is clean, clear and crisp but with a little
more than average bass (smooth bass, not the hard hitting one that rattles your ride, and not to mention your brains ). i'm more into jazz/live/r&b but with a little of hiphop and alternatives pa rin from time to time, so what speakers would be best for
these genres kaya?.. i've been there and i love bass, but i'm over that stage now. i'm more refined -- in short, tumatanda na! and besides, ayaw kong maaway ng mapapangasawa ko. hehehe.. please indicate the brand and model so i can check them out and know how they look also.

pahabol: if ever i'm going to need a sub also, would an 8" or 10" be enough? i'm eyeing on this one kasi sana, ROCKFORD FOSGATE 8" P1 SUBWOOFER P1S48 300W --- is it good sounding (smooth)? and would it compliment the seps/coaxials that you'll recommend?or do you have any other suggestions (and kung kakasya ba sa 15k budget ko kasama ang subs, o baka sa tingin nyo di ko na
kailangan ng subs dahil maso-solve na ako sa seps/coaxials na maibibigay nyo sirs)?

thank you so much kind sirs! mabuhay po kayo at patuloy na makatulong sa aming newbies!

I'll try to explain it as simple as possible. The first thing you're going to purchase is a dash panel kit. This is where you'll be placing your Kenwood head unit. From what I read on the internet, it's a 2DIN unit with okay features. I especially like how it has time alignment (although I'm not sure on how advanced it is) at a 10k price level.

All head units that have pre-outs have D/A which stands for digital-to-analog converter. Music information is stored digitally (.mp3, CD files, WAV, etc.) and to be heard by the speakers or amplifiers, these would be converted into analog signal. Not all DACs (that's their proper name really) are created equally -- we have major DAC players like Wolfson chips or Burr-Brown DACs found in higher-end Pioneers. We can say the better the DAC, the better the music would be. Just because Kenwood said that it has a 24-bit DAC doesn't mean it's superior. You look at the actual DAC itself, if not specified, just assume it's the same as any run-of-the-mill DACs. Besides, 24-bit would be a shame as the human ear can only process a maximum of 20bits of musical data ;)

If you're the driver, I would recommend you first focus on your front-stage and leave the rears stock for now. You can later buy coaxials or separates to make your rear passengers happy. Since I'm not an installer, I'm in no position to recommend that you buy this and this. I would highly recommend you first canvass some car audio shops offering packages in your budget range. The thing in car audio is that there's no "best speaker" as sound is subjective. We only have preferences of brands. Almost all brands would fit in what you described and it would certainly be a big leap compared to stock paper cones if that's your standard. If I were to recommend a brand, it'll be Firland. I've listened to it (heck, we have one in our cars) and it's pretty good for the price.

As for the subwoofer, 8 or 10 inches would certainly be enough. I would still recommend a 12 incher if you do not need the additional space just for versatility. Rockford P1 has alot of heritage behind it, but knowing Rockford, I'm not too sure whether it'll fit your budget.

Everything that's an adjective in the realm of car audio is tunable. Which is why your choice of installer and tuning is very important. Crisp sound? A bit of treble. Just enough bass? Tuning din katapat niyan!

[rain_012]

maraming salamat sir jhnkvn! dinagdagan mo ang limited kong kaalaman in this area. thank you for sharing your expertise

[jedi]

+1 jhnkvn

If you are planning to put a sub on your setup, para maliit lang ang box you can opt for a sealed type sub box rather than ported type which is almost double the size ng sealed.

You can start with separates, coaxials and 4ch amp and a big plus for Sound deadening. Malaki improvement ng sound deadening, sa mga nainstall ng Tsikotshop (c/o Jon) most of the customers na ganito ang setup, di na sila nangailangan ng amplified sub under the seats... swak na for them yung midbass.. now kung medyo bitin ka pa sa bass, you can always upgrade and get a subwoofer. Instead of getting 8 tutal ilalagay din sa box, why not get the 12" konti na lang din difference ng box ng 8 inches sa box ng 12 inches.

good day to all! i'm a newbie when it comes to sound set ups and i've been lurking this site for about a week now. i would just like
to know from our masters here, esp. to sir jhnkvn and sir jon.. i'm planning to have my honda jazz ge set up. i'm planning to get a
fascia panel kit for this head unit KENWOOD MP3-USB-iPOD-BNW DPX-MP6110U DIRECT-IPOD (which is also has a 24 D/A Converter,from what i've heard it reproduces mp3s and other files to cd or near cd quality sound - meaning clean, clear and crisp sounding),
what do you guys think?
also, i would like to ask for suggestions on what good seps should i get for the front and coaxials for rear (are coaxials good for the rear? or should i leave it as stock?) i can get for a budget of 12-15k? would be nice if in that price range the amps, wiring and
installation are already factored in. by the way, the sound that i want in my ride is clean, clear and crisp but with a little
more than average bass (smooth bass, not the hard hitting one that rattles your ride, and not to mention your brains ). i'm more into jazz/live/r&b but with a little of hiphop and alternatives pa rin from time to time, so what speakers would be best for
these genres kaya?.. i've been there and i love bass, but i'm over that stage now. i'm more refined -- in short, tumatanda na! and besides, ayaw kong maaway ng mapapangasawa ko. hehehe.. please indicate the brand and model so i can check them out and know how they look also.

pahabol: if ever i'm going to need a sub also, would an 8" or 10" be enough? i'm eyeing on this one kasi sana, ROCKFORD FOSGATE 8" P1 SUBWOOFER P1S48 300W --- is it good sounding (smooth)? and would it compliment the seps/coaxials that you'll recommend?or do you have any other suggestions (and kung kakasya ba sa 15k budget ko kasama ang subs, o baka sa tingin nyo di ko na
kailangan ng subs dahil maso-solve na ako sa seps/coaxials na maibibigay nyo sirs)?

thank you so much kind sirs! mabuhay po kayo at patuloy na makatulong sa aming newbies!

[rain_012]

salamat po master jedi! nakakatuwa naman kyo ni sir jhnkvn, talagang prompt response and very helpful. mabuhay po kayo!

sir, nakita ko po yung promo nyo, sa sound deadening na (+3 pcs for a total of 5).. maaari po ba itong set up na ito sa jazz ko kahit na ang recommendation na ito is for pick-up?:

MidSP Package 1
Firland EV602 6.5” Separates (Front)
Firland 602c 6.5” Coaxial Speaker (Rear)
Lightning Lab CLASS AB 100watts rms X 4ch
4awg Premium Lightning Lab Wiring Kit
P14,499
FREE P1,100 worth of Tsikot Damplifiers (2 Sound Deadening Sheets with installation) good for 2 doors

muli, maraming salamat po!

[jhnkvn]

salamat po master jedi! nakakatuwa naman kyo ni sir jhnkvn, talagang prompt response and very helpful. mabuhay po kayo!

sir, nakita ko po yung promo nyo, sa sound deadening na (+3 pcs for a total of 5).. maaari po ba itong set up na ito sa jazz ko kahit na ang recommendation na ito is for pick-up?:

MidSP Package 1
Firland EV602 6.5” Separates (Front)
Firland 602c 6.5” Coaxial Speaker (Rear)
Lightning Lab CLASS AB 100watts rms X 4ch
4awg Premium Lightning Lab Wiring Kit
P14,499
FREE P1,100 worth of Tsikot Damplifiers (2 Sound Deadening Sheets with installation) good for 2 doors

muli, maraming salamat po!

Pwedeng pwede sa Jazz ;)

[rain_012]

maraming salamat master jhnkvn! hindi lang bow, saludo pa ako sa inyo! hehe..

[Harangody]

Maganda ba tunog ng MidSP setup kahit walang bass?

Guys, masasayang ba sound deadener ko pag mag pa change color ako? Baka kasi tangalin.

[jedi]

yup pwede po, di lang naman po pang pickup yung ganyang setup, para po ito sa mga ayaw maglagay ng box.

[rain_012]

maraming salamat master jedi! kung magpa-set up po ako sa shop nyo, pwede po ba makalibre ng pasabay sa pag-install ng facia panel dash kit including the headunit?

maganda po ba quality ng firland kesa morel o mas ok morel? pasensya na dami tanong, dami ko kasing nababasa din na posts,
just wanted to be sure din, 1st time ko magpa-set up ksi if ever, gusto ko sana perfect choice ang mapili ko. hehe..

[jedi]

lets just say na firland is fuji apple, morel is red apple, parehong apple, pero fuji is cheaper... May taong mas nasasarapan sa fuji, meron naman mas gusto ang red...to make it short... Nasa panlasa at pandinig po yan.

Morel tempo and coax, around 15k na po, wala pa pong amp and wires...konti na lang idadagdag pwede na makakuha ng magandang dls seps and coax...

Mahirap din po idefine kung ano ang perfect, at the end of the day dedepende pa din po sa budget kung gaano kaganda kalalabasan.

Sa wiring po pwede maging perfect... Upgrade sa pure copper wires malaking bagay, kahit ilang beses magpalit ng speakers, you can still use the same wires.

[rain_012]

nice apples! thank you master jedi! hehe.. will visit your shop soon!
master jhnkvn, maraming salamat ulit!
very grateful sa inyong dalawa..
mabuhay po kayo!

[rain_012]

mga master, may pahabol pa akong question, sorry.. eto pala yung audio feature nung kenwood HU DPX-M6110U na balak kong
bilihin:

Maximum Output Power : 50W x 4 (MOSFET Power IC)
Front AUX Input
2 Preouts (2.5V)
Rear/Subwoofer Switchable
Subwoofer Level & Low Pass Filter Adjustable
Built In Amp Mute Function
Dual Zone Source & Volume Control
System Q-Ex (Preset & Full Manual Sound Control)
System E's+
Time Alignment
Separate Bass/Mid/Treble Control & Source Tone Memory
Attenuator (-20dB) with Smooth Volume Return

2 ang preouts nya, meaning 2 amps ang maikakabit, 1 for 4amps to power the seps
and coax, 1 amp to power the subs, tama po ba?

[tsikotshop]

Things to look for when choosing the right head unit..
Usability: Your head unit is the part of the car stereo that you interact with most so it is vital to get one that "feels" good to you. Always look at a head unit in a store display and use it for awhile. Try to flip through radio stations and tracks on a CD to see if it is quick and easy. If you have issues with small buttons, imagine what it will be like when you are driving! Models fall in the same price range, so usability is key deciding factor.
Power: Even though many just said not to use the built-in power of a head unit, we know sometimes it is necessary. Bear in mind that the power specifications given by majority of manufacturers for head units are not accurate. They often use terms like "music power" or "peak power" which have little real meaning because there is no standard definition of those terms. If the power is quoted in "RMS" terms then it is usually valid. However, there is still one other place of misconception. Often manufacturers will quote power as "30watts x 4 RMS". The "RMS" seems to mean it is a true indication of power but they are implying that all 4 channels can produce 30watts rms AT THE SAME TIME. With a head unit, this is almost always not true. Because of the small power supplies in head units they can rarely output more than 15-60 watts TOTAL. This means that the power to each channel at maximum loading would only be 1/4 of that total. Some manufacturers are better than others about giving accurate specifications and a few models are available with sophisticated power supplies which have higher power output but they are VERY expensive. If you're paying less than 36000php for a head unit (and most of us are!) then your head unit will not have much power.
Pre-amp outputs: These are a definite for any serious head unit. These outputs enable you to run an amplifier directly without need for any conversion. This is the cleanest output of the head unit. Some units have multiple outputs and sometimes ones that are crossed over. Look for the amount and type that you need for your system but keep in mind future upgrades. One is sufficient but having two to four allow you fade, or adjust the levels of multiple amplifiers right from the head unit. Some head units now offer 4 volt outputs instead of the usual 1-2 volts. This can be very useful since cars have a lot of electrical noise in them. The 4 volt output is less prone to noise, however, you must be certain that the amplifier or crossover being connected to the output can handle 4 volts or you will not be able to use the extra voltage. If your head unit does not have pre-amp level (RCA type) outputs you can buy an adapter which will convert your speaker level outputs to line level.

Pre-Amp and output voltage
Pre amp is usually the control center. Your volume control, tone controls, EQ (if any) and source switching is usually at your pre-amp. The Pre-Amp is designed to be a very clean low signal voltage and take care of any signal modifications you might want to make to the signal (music) BEFORE the signal goes to the amplifier.
Pre-amp signal is usually LOW, it was designed to be low so there is less distortion at this stage. Home pre-amps usually operate with about 1 to 1.5 volts of output, the idea was to keep the voltage down as low as possible to keep the distortion down as low as possible in the pre-amp stage and then after the signal leaves the pre-amp we let the amplifier do what it does well.

In car audio we have used this very low level for years with pretty good track record. But in many cases in car systems there might be some noise. Some of the car stereo manufacturers have stepped up the output voltage of their head units in an attempt to aid us have a noise proof system.

Installers have always found that certain types of noises in a car system can be reduced by turning down the amplifier gain controls. But most of the time the customer gets his system fairly noise free but with no gain!! The system just may not play loud like it should if the gain controls are turned down too far. Turn the headunit all the way up and it still wont get loud. This is where the manufacturers come in with the higher level headunits! Now you can turn them higher, even when your gains are very low (and hopefully any bad noises are also very low)...

Some old fashioned find this added amplification (and distortion) on the headunits a turn off. But the majority of us cant really hear the added distortion and find it much better than the noise !!!

Some rookies find the added headunit voltage an advantage cause now they think their amp will play louder! NOT TRUE! The amp will still have its max output power and it will not change in most cases of the amps max drive can be achieved. Many rookies compare a 1or 2 volt headunit with a 4 to 8 volt headunit and they only notice that with the higher voltage the system gets loud at 10 (on the volume scale) and you used to have to turn it up to 30..!! Some rookies are fooling themselves into thinking this is GOOD! This is better!! But it may not be.

Ideally, a system has a good swing to the volume control... Too much signal voltage into the amp the system will get loud too soon on the volume swing. Not enough signal voltage to the amp and the system volume control can go all the way up and not get loud like you might like it. Setting the amp gain controls correctly will give you this proper swing!

But I still hear them say, "WOW, I got a 5 volt headunit!, it sure plays louder!, its worth the money!"
I just shake my head in amazement...

Head unit power!
Car Stereo head unit power is VERY deceiving! Head units all have HUGE power ratings on the Boxes or right on the front of the units! The highest head unit power I have ever actually tested was 13 watts (at a half way decent THD). So even if the head unit says 35Watts or 40 watts per channel on it don't EVER expect for it to REALLY BE more than 15! Just cant happen!

REAL amplifiers use LARGE power supplies in them with transformers to STEP UP the voltage So that large amounts of power can be made! Head units just don't have room in them For transformers or large power supplies!!!! So NEVER expect more than 15watts per Speaker out of head units! Some of the more reputable head units might LIE on the boxes but If you read the small print in the spec sheets in the owners manual they might admit to the 15watt figure!

[rain_012]

thank you master jon!

eto kasi plan ko ipakabit sa inyo na package sir:

MidSP Package 1
Firland EV602 6.5” Separates (Front)
Firland 602c 6.5” Coaxial Speaker (Rear)
Lightning Lab CLASS AB 100watts rms X 4ch
4awg Premium Lightning Lab Wiring Kit
P14,499
FREE P1,100 worth of Tsikot Damplifiers (2 Sound Deadening Sheets with installation) good for 2 doors

so tama po ba yung sinabi ko na 2 ang preouts nung HU, meaning 2 amps ang maikakabit? dun sa unang preout maikakabit is isang 4ch amps to power the seps and coax then dun sa isa pang preout makakapagkabit pa ng isang mono amp to power the sub kung sakaling gusto kong magdagdag ng sub sa future, tama po ba sir jon?

[The Truth]

I Really would love to have a Sub-woofer to complete my setup..
but trunk space is also valuable to me... what do I do?

Ive been asking around if the under seat plug&play amplified 8" Sub is worth it, NOBODY said yes.
The box set (Focal SB30 A1) would likely be my choice if I ever go through with it though, what's your take on this?
should I let my installer create a custom box instead, It would be a little cheaper.