Detailing Thread [For Newbies][continued 2]

[indiej]

yun 476, kelangan ko paba ng ibang wax before eapply ito or after car wash (natuyo na) good na eapply?

wala naman. kung unang lagay ng wax, clay tsaka prewax cleaner ka muna.

pag wax monthly, ok lang patong na agad to don sa existing 476 or need ko paba tanggalin muna yun existing wax? "After your next wash, you will have to abrade/erode your wax/sealant layer til the etchings are gone or risk having them etch into the paint." - anong ibig mong sabihin dito? sorry hindi ko magets kasi hindi pa ako naka DIY wax ever since hehehe.

patong agad. tatlo hanggang apat na buwan yung tanggal lahat o kung hindi na makinis at di mo na maremedyohan ito.

parang kulang..
Even if there's a garage, your applied wax or sealant will have to deal with watermarks/waterspots in less than a month. And those will be all over your car. After your next wash, you will have to abrade/erode your wax/sealant layer til the etchings are gone or risk having them etch into the paint.
ayan..
sa madaling salita, pagnagka watermarks, kailangan mo itong linisin pagkahugas ng kotse. hmmn maiksi din naman pala kahit sa filipino.

waxed for the very first time pala ;). pero kung di ka naman todong OC, malaki na ang kabutihan ng pagwax kaysa sa iba na hugas lang talaga.

[umi001]

Very interesting threads below on layering of waxes and sealants:

layering of waxes
layering of sealants

The person doing the testing used scientific equipment which can measure down to sub-nanometer level to determine if waxes and sealants layer, and if they do, how many you can add before adding anymore would be a waste of product.

General conclusions (if I've understood the results correctly) are that:

• Adding a second layer of wax can have a positive effect, but mainly because it ensures that the surface has an even coating of wax - i.e., the first layer may not be completely even, so the second layer ensures that these "valleys" get properly coated.
• It is important to adhere to drying times - i.e., ensure that the wax does haze and dry before buffing it off.
• Adding additional layers of wax beyond the first two do not provide any benefit - in fact, because of the need to buff these layers, you actually reduce the thickness of the wax that you previously applied!
• Sealants do not seem to layer at all.

Of course, the results do need to be taken in the proper context - the tests were done on silicon wafers (used due to their incredible flatness) rather than metal with paint and clearcoat, and different sealants may have different properties from the ones tested; nonetheless, a very interesting read, and it shows that you shouldn't overdo things, as doing so can actually be counterproductive.

Oh yes, take a look at the thickness of the sealants and waxes that remain - just 20nm! (20 nanometers is 1/50th of a micron, and a micron is about 1/100th the thickness of a human hair.) This supports the idea that the biggest part of detailing is about the preparation of the surface, rather than what we place on top.

[umi001]

A video of water bouncing off a carbon nanotube array:



Imagine if we could have a sealant made out of this material - you'd have the water drops flying off your car anytime it rains

[Chikselog]

Oh yes, take a look at the thickness of the sealants and waxes that remain - just 20nm! (20 nanometers is 1/50th of a micron, and a micron is about 1/100th the thickness of a human hair.) This supports the idea that the biggest part of detailing is about the preparation of the surface, rather than what we place on top.

Is this after layering? O kapag bagong apply pa lang ng sealant/wax (I mean 1st use pa lang)?

[indiej]

Very interesting threads below on layering of waxes and sealants:

layering of waxes
layering of sealants
..

nice find. a step closer to the truth. levelled coverage is the average result. just a rewax after the next wash will do.

kudos for reading the entire DTfN series.

[Louga]

wala naman. kung unang lagay ng wax, clay tsaka prewax cleaner ka muna.


patong agad. tatlo hanggang apat na buwan yung tanggal lahat o kung hindi na makinis at di mo na maremedyohan ito.

parang kulang..
Even if there's a garage, your applied wax or sealant will have to deal with watermarks/waterspots in less than a month. And those will be all over your car. After your next wash, you will have to abrade/erode your wax/sealant layer til the etchings are gone or risk having them etch into the paint.
ayan..
sa madaling salita, pagnagka watermarks, kailangan mo itong linisin pagkahugas ng kotse. hmmn maiksi din naman pala kahit sa filipino.

waxed for the very first time pala ;). pero kung di ka naman todong OC, malaki na ang kabutihan ng pagwax kaysa sa iba na hugas lang talaga.

maraming salamat po.

[umi001]

Is this after layering? O kapag bagong apply pa lang ng sealant/wax (I mean 1st use pa lang)?

The first layer was from 16 to 22 nm, while the second one, after allowing the wax to cure, was 15 to 27 nm. So it's really a very thin shell of wax that's being left behind. Also, notice that there was a drop in wax thickness for one of the test wafers after the second application - this was a result of buffing the wax before it was completely dry:

Results: Adding a second layer

The four wafers measured yesterday had another coat of Collinite no 915 applied using a damp microfibre cloth (pretty nearly 24 hours after first coat)
The new layer was buffed off wafer 1 after about 5 minutes.
I could see that wafer 1 was obviously not completely dry when buffed, so I gave the other wafers another 5 minutes to fully dry, which may explain the results below.
The rig used ensures that the wafers are remeasured in the same position as for the first layer.

Wafer 1:
Thickness after first application: 22.7 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 18.8 nm
Difference:- - 3.9 nm

Wafer 2:
Thickness after first application: 20.6 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 23.8 nm
Difference:- +2.2 nm

Wafer 3:
Thickness after first application: 15.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 25.0 nm
Difference:- +9.1 nm

Wafer 4:
Thickness after first application: 16.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 27.8 nm
Difference:- +10.9 nm

OK, it is hard to draw dramatic conclusiuons from a short study but it seems that it is more important to let the second layer dry properly than the first layer (remember the first layer on wafer 4 was buffed off immediately).
Also, ignoring wafer 1 for the moment, it seems that the thinner layers gained most from the second layer.

And here are the results of adding a third layer:

Now I applied a third layer with the damp microfibre, waited 10 minutes and buffed with a clean, dry microfibre cloth.
To make it easier to compare, I show the results above once more, along with the new thicknesses.

Wafer 1:
Thickness after first application: 22.7 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 18.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 15.3 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 22.1 nm

Wafer 2:
Thickness after first application: 20.6 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 23.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 22.5 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 17.0 nm

Wafer 3:
Thickness after first application: 15.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 25.0 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 24.9 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 20.1 nm

Wafer 4:
Thickness after first application: 16.9 nm
Thickness after 2nd application: 27.8 nm
Remeasured 24 hours later: thickness = 26.7 nm
Thickness after 3rd application: 21.5 nm

The results were a bit surprising; wafer1 gained, but the other three lost thickness!

Here are the links to the particular posts:

http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...7&postcount=44
http://www.detailingworld.co.uk/foru...5&postcount=50

[scharnhorst]

*umi001: nice seeing you here that's a very technical approach to detailing!

*bombit, PSI: mga ser kelan na next EB? hehe.

[kerikzb]

HOY!!! musta na doc!!! I believe POLISHING ang next session..... para magamit mga makina ninyo...... no exact date pa.... we are cooking something hehehe!! yung jet seal...... ano yun hehehe!! ayus lang... post ko mamaya pics.....

sana makasama ako sa niluluto niyo sir. :D

[umi001]

*umi001: nice seeing you here that's a very technical approach to detailing!

*bombit, PSI: mga ser kelan na next EB? hehe.

Heh, starting to post here after finishing reading the 3 threads I found it very interesting, because uses scientific analysis to help verify - or disprove - some of the things we read and hear about. I actually stumbled upon those threads while reading up on the durability of OCW

[Hardinero]

Heh, starting to post here after finishing reading the 3 threads I found it very interesting, because uses scientific analysis to help verify - or disprove - some of the things we read and hear about. I actually stumbled upon those threads while reading up on the durability of OCW

paps, how's ur review on the durability of OCW? oks ba talaga gamitin..

bibili kasi ako tonight...

[jmpet626]

Sakin 2 weeks na OCW ko may shine and beading pa din. Kahit may konting ulan ulan sa gabi. Sulit talaga OCW!

[indiej]

paps, how's ur review on the durability of OCW? oks ba talaga gamitin..

bibili kasi ako tonight...

lemme see..
spray or wipe on walk away, WOWA, no wax off
water based carnauba, and something else
$40 by the gallon, is a liter close to Php 500?
UV A B protection, can't qualify though
durability, check!


guys, how have you dealt with the etched watermarks/waterspots on your waxed car?

[john5]

just got a cheap MF towel kanina Micromagic ata basta under DUB sa blade 88pesos for 3,alternative ko sa 2 microtex ko.i washed my car thouroughly inabot ako 2 hours nakalimutan ko takpan umulan ng malakas bad trip

[umi001]

paps, how's ur review on the durability of OCW? oks ba talaga gamitin..

bibili kasi ako tonight...

Most of what I was able to read was from western-centric sites, so you'll have to take into account the fact that our weather is generally worse than theirs. The general consensus is that the claim of five months is stretching it a bit, but durability of around two to three months seems to be the norm (with some people getting even better), which, as indiej says, is just outstanding for a spray-on wax.

[Hardinero]

Sakin 2 weeks na OCW ko may shine and beading pa din. Kahit may konting ulan ulan sa gabi. Sulit talaga OCW!

yanyan..

lemme see..
spray or wipe on walk away, WOWA, no wax off
water based carnauba, and something else
$40 by the gallon, is a liter close to Php 500?
UV A B protection, can't qualify though
durability, check!

eto pinakagusto ko wipe and walk away...hassle kasi yung spray mo tas kelangan mo pang i-buff...

kaya bebenta ko na yung NXT tech spray wax ko..hehe

guys, how have you dealt with the etched watermarks/waterspots on your waxed car?

problem ko rin ito..

Most of what I was able to read was from western-centric sites, so you'll have to take into account the fact that our weather is generally worse than theirs. The general consensus is that the claim of five months is stretching it a bit, but durability of around two to three months seems to be the norm (with some people getting even better), which, as indiej says, is just outstanding for a spray-on wax.

tama ka paps, iba talaga weather dito satin...

[Chikselog]

Spray and walk-away pala ang OCW?? Hahaha ngayon ko lang nalaman.

Ano yun pagkaspray mo edi may fine mist ng OCW sa paint mo tapos iiwan na lang? Hindi ba magmamarka yun?

[scharnhorst]

Spray and walk-away pala ang OCW?? Hahaha ngayon ko lang nalaman.

Ano yun pagkaspray mo edi may fine mist ng OCW sa paint mo tapos iiwan na lang? Hindi ba magmamarka yun?

kelangan pa rin i-spread ang OCW using microfiber, AFAIK. Wala lang buffing

by experience, OCW can last at most, 2 weeks in lousy Philippine weather... but it really protects the 476 underneath if it's used as a booster.

ngayon 476+Nanosliq ako.. wala ako pambili ng OCW hehe.

[scharnhorst]

guys, how have you dealt with the etched watermarks/waterspots on your waxed car?

if it doesn't come off with shampooing... either a clearcoat-safe cleaner wax or claying. But tanggal wax mo nyan for sure

[indiej]

kelangan pa rin i-spread ang OCW using microfiber, AFAIK. Wala lang buffing

baka nga makalito, yes, no need to buff. sprayable pa sya. remember Umi's post reference from DW a page ago, 20 nanometers lang ang average thickness na maiiwan na wax layer. 6nm ang bawas kada buffing session nya. at kung todo sagad sa buffing, 6nm din ang naiwan sa testing nya. durability na lang ang usapin sa mga waxes. so don't hesitate to spread it as thinly as you can.

..ngayon 476+Nanosliq ako.. wala ako pambili ng OCW hehe.

ok na ok pa rin yan.

more..
guys, how have you dealt with the etched watermarks/waterspots on your waxed car?