Detailing Thread [For Newbies][ARCHIVED]

[aejhayl17]

mga sir, im a newbie in exterior/paint detailing...

anu ano ba mga materials needed for some 3 coats of different wax, para mabalik ko kintab ng altis ko.

Name of wax, solution, top coat, scratch remover, swirl remover, etc etc

sana po yung madaling mabili sa mga hardware (Ace, Wilcon etc etc etc)

yung budget mode lang po.

*SG, kanino ba yung CRV sa ibang thread? hehe

[madkatz]

*scharnhorst: for that i initially sprayed degreaser on all parts, its sort of a semi waterless engine detailing since i used water on a spray bottle to rinse out certain spots so as not to really wet all the engine bay, basically i rinse it part by part, if your engine bay has mud then you might need to use water for that already, either that or patiently and slowly remove the mud, but its much faster if you have a pressurized water hose, what you do is get some huge rubber bands and cover the alternator with a cloth and then plastic bag, cover the sensors and the computer box with microfiber cloths and hit the problem parts with the water pressure while still trying to avoid these area's, for mud degreaser would help, for grease kerosene would help.

[madkatz]

*Chikselog: i just told him to extend the same promo to tsikot hehe

[madkatz]

*jmpet626: for heavy stains and lots of gunk and grease, i recommend Simple Green Max, but be careful with this one, you still have to dilute this and on stronger dilution ratio's it might whiten the rubber, but nothing a protectant couldn't restore, for light engine detailing and a much safer alternative, Simple Green Degreaser, the orange one, dilute it 1:4 up to 1:6 and the use as my BF taught you to, he mentioned you were planning on detailing a jazz? for that i would suggest you get some brushes with long handles, try to find the soft ones used for cleaning silver wares and vases, these are soft enough to not scratch the plastic but sturdy enough to remove the majority of grime, kinda hard to look for though

[Chikselog]

*madkatz
Hehe. Kaya pala he told me that he can get me the same deal. Nag-aalala pa naman ako baka maubusan haha.

May detailing seminar pa ba kayo? Hehe. Para sabay ko nang bilhin yung 476 and paturo na rin sa proper application. Balak ko gawin 3x coat ng 476 haha.

[madkatz]

*Starex_Gold: haha, well sorry to break the news but it looks like our may schedule is already full, but lets see what we can do, my BF is usually free on sundays so he can dedicate his place and a whole day to help people in detailing, as for scratches you could ask him if he could teach you how to polish, i think he already taught JM and Chicks some basic rotary skills and is just waiting for an old car for practice, another thing you could do is put over a glaze, if he still has some Megs 80 Speed glaze, that would work very well on blacks hehe, don't worry chicks, chances are its not this sunday hehe

[madkatz]

*jozep: well basically its

1. wash the entire car
2. dry the entire car
3. apply waxes on the sides of the engine bay
4. spray kerosene on greasy parts ( if its not greasy skip this part )
5. spray degreaser to remove kerosene and most of the grime
6. wipe the dirty area's and rinse the Mf in a bucket of water
7. use brushes for certain parts and angles
8. dry the entire engine bay with a blower
9. spray dressing or protectant

but i would agree with SG that to really learn it well you need to be there on the next detail session so you could see and practice hands on

[jmpet626]

*madkatz

Where can I buy simple Green? Yup plan ko engine detail yung jazz this week hehe sobrang cramped yung engine bay ng jazz.

*chick
Sa Wax/Sealant layering read mo muna to


From Megs
http://www.meguiars.com


/faq/index.cfm?faqCat=General+Questions&faqQuestionID=1 4&section=_14

Layerable waxes

A Layerable wax, is a wax that the protective ingredients used in the formula (natural and synthetic), are such that the protective layer left behind will not only adhere to the paint, but in subsequent applications, will adhere to itself. It also means that the carrying agents, be they solvent, water or something else, cannot be strong enough or in high enough concentrations to re-liquefy the previously applied layer, thus removing it during your attempt to add another layer.

Layerable waxes are primarily pure waxes, or protectants (as synthetic formulas are referred to) that do not contain chemical cleaners, or solvents that will remove the previous layer.

There is an exception to this rule and that is that it is possible to first apply a cleaner wax, and then apply a pure wax or pure synthetic over it.

The Law of Diminishing Returns
(Thomas Malthus "Essay on the Principle of Population" published in 1798.)

While this theory is generally used to discuss topics as they relate to the areas of economics and politics, it is a model that can also be used to explain in this case, the complex action occurring at the microscopic level on the surface of your car's finish.

The law of diminishing returns as it relates to layering,

A surface, such as an automotive paint, can only hold so much product before all you're doing is removing all subsequent coatings applied to the surface.

That is to say, after the first, second and in some cases a third application/coating, any more product applied to the surface is merely removed when you wipe the excess off after waiting for the product to cure.

At this point you've reached a plateau (or limit), as to how much wax (natural or synthetic) a surface can hold. Once you reach this plateau, all further applications of wax simply become excess that will be removed (and thus wasted), during wipe-off because it has nowhere to attach and layer.

Of course, this all depends upon your definition of the word "Layer".

If your definition of the word layer follows that of Webster's Dictionary:

2 a: One thickness, course, or fold, laid or lying over or under another

Then yes, you can layer to a certain point. For example, you can add multiple layers of layerable waxes until the limit to how much a given surface of an automotive paint can hold before each additional application is simply removed, or replaces a previously applied layer.

You cannot layer to the point of developing a measurable film-build without negatively affecting, or diminishing to some degree, the shine, optical clarity, gloss, reflectivity, depth of color etc. This is especially true if the product you're applying is not clear (in and of itself) to start with.

If your definition of the word "layer" follows that of definition used by some on the Internet,

Layer 1: To continually build a greater level of protection with each additional application, or layer, of a wax or protectant. (Natural or synthetic)

Layer 2: To continually increase shine, optical clarity, gloss, reflectivity, depth of color without end and/or after a plateau, or point of maximum potential has been achieved.

Then no, you cannot layer a wax, synthetic, natural, or otherwise.

From 1Z

http://www.1z-usa.com/Car-Wax-Protec...ish_ep_60.html

“Layering”

One of the more common questions we're asked is whether Glanz Wax can be layered. Layering is an idea that multiple layers of wax can be applied on top of one another with the belief that multiple layers will multiply the level of protection and shine.

Here's where the “law of diminishing returns” applies. As you apply a layer of wax on top of a layer just applied, the new application will remove some of the first layer. You can only apply so much wax on top of itself. The only benefit of applying a second layer of wax is that you ensure that you applied a coat on an area where you may have missed during the first application.

[Chikselog]

If time permits, sagot ko na ang old car for practice hehe. Sana matuloy ang detailing get-together (lol) natin.

[madkatz]

*SG: well if i were you i would apply 2 coats of 915 instead, i've had certain experiences with Top Coat not really playing quite well with certain waxes, i've tried Top Coat with 476 hoping to add shine and it did, but on 915 it actually made the paint a little dull where i liked the 915 look better, it also doesn't play well with p21s and souveran. but to answer your question Top Coat should be on top.

[madkatz]

*aejhayl17: hmm i kinda got lost, with 3 layering do you mean 3 step? 3 step is basically, step 1 rubbing compound, step 2 polish and, step 3 waxing, for mothers they have a consumer line thats basically nearly the same as above but a lot lighter since it made for consumers, if thats the 3 step that you mean, if you mean't putting on 3 layers of wax then just apply any wax as you would wait for 8 hours and apply again and repeat for the 3rd layer.

If you're confused i suggest you also try to attend a detailing EB or session, this way people here could see your altis and check what it needs to look great, and its also a great way to check out what products they use and what techniques they use.

But for the basics

if your car is a bit weathered and oxidized get the Mothers 3 Step system available at Blade and Hans, it costs less than 2k i think for all 3 but these 3 would already last you a long time

now if your car a fine scratches and water marks then you might need to use a polish to level the clear coat a bit, for this you might need swirlX, for spot treatmends mothers scratch remover is also nice and also cheap, for heavier defects you might need Megs Ultimate compound

for waxing, any car wax can actually make your car look good, even if its TW super hardshell it can make your car look shiny, a car looking shiny all depends on how you prepare your paint, if you get the Mothers 3 Step system thats already a good wax, if you're on a budget you could try TW Platinum around nearly 600 bucks, or Microtex NanoGlos 360 to 370, do some back reading its a great wax, or you could get sachets for around 40 to 50 pesos, Microtex and 3m are both good sachet waxes to have around.

[madkatz]

*chickselog: actually with 476, 1 coat is already good enough, two coats is sort of overkill already but 3 coats would be just a waste, if you have the time to do 3 coats then i would tell you to invest on a sealant, sealants are the ones that really benefit when it comes to layering more than 3, i had the innova layered with 4 layers of KSG and until now it still looks nice, as for waxes the top recommended layer is just 2, based on personal experience the 3 layer would just be a waste.

As for the detailing seminar, i really don't know, you have to ask him hehe, but chances are we will still hold them but not soon i think, we're really busy and we're a bit pending on some detail requests, he haven't even finished with the infinity limo

[madkatz]

*jmpet626: you could find simple green in trinoma Do it Best and SnR shopping, as for the Max i think i saw one on either one of them.

Nice articles, Actually for me and based on experience the only LSP that benefits from layering more than 2 is actually sealants that are allowed to cure for 24 hours, with sealants its actually a lot better since with each layer you cover more swirls and scratches so with more layers you cover more defects, and sealants actually last a lot longer before getting washed out, sealants also improve the gloss and reflectivity of the paint giving you that flat mirror look, but the downside to this is that you have to let it cure for 24 hours and before applying the next layer you need to wash and dry again but the look is really sick and wet, with waxes 2 layers for me is the most, but with sealants we're actually on the process of applying the 4 layer on the infinity limo and we're aiming for 6 layers, 3 KSG + 3 WG-DGPS + 2 layers Liquid souveran.

[madkatz]

*chickselog: i look forward to that, and with an old car at least people can feel more at ease hehe, but if there's a lot of people, i just might let my BF do the talking and i'll just drop by from time to time, i really have a lot of catching up with work to do, but i'll be there haha sometimes i honestly just get bored since my BF does all the talking so we'll see hehe

[madkatz]

*jaymd: when you washed your Microtex Duster, did it scratch the paint after you washed it? or is it still scratch free?

[locoroco777]

please do keep this thread updated with regards to the detailing EB...this one is a never miss event for me...because all the detailing seminars that I have attended to in the past is just being done to promote either a product or a shop being endorsed Wherein I never actually learn...unlike this EB that you are cooking up...purely based on experiences and 1st hand product feedbacks....

I really hope this will be held soon...

and kudos to the gurus of this thread for keeping it really informative for the readers....

[aejhayl17]

*aejhayl17: hmm i kinda got lost, with 3 layering do you mean 3 step? 3 step is basically, step 1 rubbing compound, step 2 polish and, step 3 waxing, for mothers they have a consumer line thats basically nearly the same as above but a lot lighter since it made for consumers, if thats the 3 step that you mean, if you mean't putting on 3 layers of wax then just apply any wax as you would wait for 8 hours and apply again and repeat for the 3rd layer.

If you're confused i suggest you also try to attend a detailing EB or session, this way people here could see your altis and check what it needs to look great, and its also a great way to check out what products they use and what techniques they use.

But for the basics

if your car is a bit weathered and oxidized get the Mothers 3 Step system available at Blade and Hans, it costs less than 2k i think for all 3 but these 3 would already last you a long time

now if your car a fine scratches and water marks then you might need to use a polish to level the clear coat a bit, for this you might need swirlX, for spot treatmends mothers scratch remover is also nice and also cheap, for heavier defects you might need Megs Ultimate compound

for waxing, any car wax can actually make your car look good, even if its TW super hardshell it can make your car look shiny, a car looking shiny all depends on how you prepare your paint, if you get the Mothers 3 Step system thats already a good wax, if you're on a budget you could try TW Platinum around nearly 600 bucks, or Microtex NanoGlos 360 to 370, do some back reading its a great wax, or you could get sachets for around 40 to 50 pesos, Microtex and 3m are both good sachet waxes to have around.

thanks madkatz, that was very informative. i will attend the eb detailing and let the guys do their trial and error on my ride hehehe i hope it wont be the lab-rat for that eb hehehe

anyways, what would i use for the application of the following?

paano ba ang tamang order ng following application?

thanks again mam madkatz

[jaymd]

*jaymd: when you washed your Microtex Duster, did it scratch the paint after you washed it? or is it still scratch free?

di naman parehas pa din.

[jozep]

madkatz: ano dapat unahin kong i apply? Moms Top Coat or 915?

jozep: mas mabuting mag attend ka pag may seminar sila madkatz at sir Edwin para mas madali maintindihan

*Sir SG - oo nga sana maka attend ako next time.
Actually sir Edwin texted me last week for the Wed. session, unfortunately I had to accompany my son to his therapy class that day.

[jozep]

*jozep: well basically its

1. wash the entire car
2. dry the entire car
3. apply waxes on the sides of the engine bay
4. spray kerosene on greasy parts ( if its not greasy skip this part )
5. spray degreaser to remove kerosene and most of the grime
6. wipe the dirty area's and rinse the Mf in a bucket of water
7. use brushes for certain parts and angles
8. dry the entire engine bay with a blower
9. spray dressing or protectant

but i would agree with SG that to really learn it well you need to be there on the next detail session so you could see and practice hands on

*madkatz - thanks for this procedures, I hope I could attend your next detailing session, hopefully its a weekend