Tsikot.ph PHUV Prototype

[architect]

*Dprox

Thanks for the information. I guess if you consider a construction analogy the fabrication team is the one that actually builds the structure (contractor). I think we should be able to hire any of the specialists if we can't find one of them here in tsikot.

But what about the design team (architect, structural engr, elec'l engr, mechanical engr, sanitation engr, etc.)? What disciplines are required? Especially knowing that we want an AUV that is modular enough to be configured as a pick-up, van, jeepney, and AUV. Also big enough to accommodate 4 x 8 boards flat on the pick-up bed. And a design that can use off-the shelf components as well as custom-designed add-ons.

[OyiL]

i dont know if there's a book or website where we can find out how a car is developed.

How about this:
vehicles have different systems in it e.g.

Brake system, Engine, Cooling System, AC, electrical system, steering and suspension, transmission, emmision systems. ..meron pa ba?

so..
for each system, there should be someone(one or more persons) in charge of doing research regarding the parts needed for that particular system. they provide the specification to the buyer.
while determining which parts to use, they interface with one another just like how those systems interface in the complete vehicle. so that they can match with each other.

enrico...how is this done in your company?

[ehnriko]

By the way -
We are not reinventing the wheel anymore.

Additional Points:

1. PIMP my ride MTV - doesn't have anything to do with Car Design. I watch it too just to be aware of whats happening with Car cultures... but again - as the name impleid - PIMP.

2. I would suggest you all visit www.cardesignnews.com this is the best website to gain the best insights when it comes to car design all over the world. It is to some extent the equivalent of Yahoo to all Car Designers in the world.

3. If we dwell too much on what we see in TV - we will lose our own identity. It's good to be abreast with these technological innovations and development, but it is best to have our own.

off topic: I wonder why the players in the PHUV program never came up with a concept sketch? When this is supposed to be the first step in order to get feedbacks from the Market. There is no big secret here - unless it's a totally new idea.

By the way,

In my team - I act as most of the mentioned by dprox comprising the staff of the basic Prototype construction outfit. since I have been Racing for several years with Shell slalom. I overhaul my own engine, change my own tires, record all my raing data, race my car myself, experiment with additives myself, balance my pistons, formulate my vehicle's racing dynamics without really spending too much... (I was racing in spite of...) I only had one crew, and the Racing Purple Bug made it for 1 whole racing season - without experiencing a major engine nor suspension problem. I also raced Front Wheel Drives and made notes on all their performances.. I fix my wifes' MINI Cooper, I paint my own Graphics, I restored a Few Classics - owned some also in the past (1959 El Dorado Biarritz Cadillac convertible, 1963 Tempest Convertible, AMC Javelin, 1952 Presidential Cadillac Limousine - to mentione some.)

How I road Test a Car? - If it can perform my slalom test without a problem, then - it's good already. My Design Philosophy - The vehicle is always made with a Race Driver, turned Family and businessman during weekdays in mind. with a Family and Mother in law living with him. This is the guy in my mind who is going to drive this vehicle. Meaning - it must be safe, sound, solid, tough, being good looking folows every good design... this is because - good designs are normally symmetrical... symmetry is normally a resultant of a well thought of, ergonomic, thermodynamic, aerodynamic, economic, etc. design.

Say for instance - PORSCHE 911 - the old one - There is so much Density of Thought placed in that car - like the VW Beetle as well.

If you need to generate employment and place this country into the map of the world. Having a real Automotive industry comes into place...

PROTOTYPE CONSTRUCTION: - 6 months to 1 yeaR

Best Manufacturing system for Philippines - Henry Ford's Approach when he first built his factory.

Six Sigma or toyota's Kanban method can be adopted later on. The start up is normally the hard part, but we can make it less hard by sticking to what we have at hand.

I think I have vented everything already to this forum... I hope.

Lio and Architect - please add me to your YM. Thank you! we can discuss there more in depth talks.

again, it's all in your hands.

Best regards!

[ehnriko]

Oyil,

to begin with, we always have meetings and brainstormings... My Logitic and purchasing staff is an Automotive engineer from India, my sponsor is an Industrialist... Basically - all the suppliers and OEM manufacturers have their engineers as well. We interact with them and I chose the products or items... We get their CAD files and we place this in our computer model.

this way, we save huge time and money.

It's really no nuclear science.

I used to work for a thrid party Korean logistics company caterring the electronics industry in EPZA. I was Managing and QMR - Representative... It was basically the same kind of work.

this is how the Koreans made it in their automotive Indsutry... they treated it like just another small company. and with little steps.. They made it into a giant.

[dprox]

*Dprox

But what about the design team (architect, structural engr, elec'l engr, mechanical engr, sanitation engr, etc.)? What disciplines are required?

The analogs to construction phase tradesmen are those very items I listed. Specializations are clearly defined, with overlaps of course, but the volume of work of each one is less. I also listed them in the most likely sequence of their involvement, er ... Parts Procurement and Quality Control should have been on top, since they will be involved all throughout the build.

During the design phase, I relied on my own accumulated knowledge (a calculated risk, really) and vicarious experience gained by hanging around various AUV & jeepney fabrication shops asking impertinent questions. That's how I became quite aware of the stock technical capabilities of filipino build teams. I actually didn't have the need to hire design engineers for my prototype.

Besides that, I used and modified an existing platform, encountering only minor compatibility problems (mechanical and electrical) along the build. Can tell you more about it later. I don't know of any standard practice or mandated processes yet for UV design/fabrication. I would have brought in an engineer only if I were to introduce really complex or hi-tech innovation to the project I was not confident I could do.

There is no analog in UV fabrication to the engineering professionals in building construction. LTO's approval requirements are not as stringent as Building Officials. But if ever they should require an engineering pro to vouch for the project, it would probably be a BSME, or a bona fide automotive engineer (if you find one, heheh!).

If you want professional assurance, it would be a BSME, particularly regarding weight distribution and suspension systems. But then you might try asking the underchassis chief mechanics at Zafra who know that stuff better than many MEs.

DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

[dprox]

whoever is incharge about this project, kindly pm me

Sorry, jedi.
Asking who is in charge of this project is like asking us who farted.
:fartysmile1f:
No one will admit it.

But there is a Force that is propelling this effort, and it cannot be helped. None who sits about this Round Table claims a monopoly of commanding the Task at hand. We are each aware of our gifts and limitations.
Our aim is to share what we have and fill what we have not. So far, we are comfortable with being respectful equals, whichever part of the world we may be placed. We share a common conviction, and this is what binds us more strongly with every message posted: That we are Filipinos ... frustrated, deprived, but highly-motivated Filipinos ... with a passion for designing cars.
:car: :car: :car: :car:
DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

[OyiL]

does anybody know if we can get accurate CAD libraries for locally produced parts?

[dprox]

By the way - I have a website - it is a virtual design studio office front which I build for myself. http://ehnriko.bravehost.com - check it out for your reference.

Hi Ehnriko.
Glad to have you in the forum.
I browsed your site and two of your concept vehicles caught my attention:
"FilTryke" and "CruiseAider". An ex-governor once pointed me towards designing a motorcycle-powered airconditioned vehicle for 3 passengers, and said that would click. With a little more design development, my gut prognosis is that the CruiseAider is definitely doable on existing platforms, and with an affordable tag.
I'm not a venture capitalist, but I can see great potential in those two concepts. I would like to know the factors you put into them, and how you would qualify them as Filipino.
When you have the time, let's exchange ideas.
BTW, these opinions do not pre-empt the group's PhUV project.
DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

[jamesvhong]

If mag push po yung projerct possible po ba gumawa ng scaled down model na sasakyan parang Remote Control car size? Para before po gawin yung prototype may tangible design na pong makikita at kung ano kalalabasan ng exterior.

Gusto kong mag join sa EB with my wife but im not sure pa sa schedule, usually kasi im working during weekend. IT During weeday, Entrepreneur (salesman) pag weekend and full time husband hehehe newly wed kasi (young coulpe).

But i believe we could help sa test (driving comfort) and quality checks more on consumer level. Mejo mabusisi kasi kami pag dating sa mga bagay specially si misis (detail oriented). At sa end product im sure we could help in terms or marketing and sales.

[OyiL]

*architect

Lets start this immediately.
Do you know the requirements in starting-up a company? except the part where we need to figure out fund sourcing.

[Tigerbug]

Technical queries;

1.Wind shield (front, rear, side) – Is there any local manufacturer that can make curved profiles? Or
maybe designer’s specifications?

2. Chassis – Is there any local manufacturer that can fabricate designer’s specifications?

3. Monocoque body fabricator – ????


This will greatly affect the design of the vehicle, without this the design options would be very limited.

[jamesvhong]

*architect

Lets start this immediately.
Do you know the requirements in starting-up a company? except the part where we need to figure out fund sourcing.

I think this will fall to BSME para tax free correct me if im wrong po and yung capital should be bellow 3M, i think ang problem dito is funding kasi nasa stage tayo ng R&D but if we encourage investor... Syempre the'yl be looking for dividen in the near future.

[Helios]

If mag push po yung projerct possible po ba gumawa ng scaled down model na sasakyan parang Remote Control car size? Para before po gawin yung prototype may tangible design na pong makikita at kung ano kalalabasan ng exterior.

a solid, scale clay model should be generated after sketches are being finalised during the design process. fine arts students or related can be hired or will do it for free if you ask nicely.

[OyiL]

a solid, scale clay model should be generated after sketches are being finalised during the design process. fine arts students or related can be hired or will do it for free if you ask nicely.

good! this part can be outsourced also.
would a 3D model be good enough for the visuals? we can come up with one that you can also drive in car sim video games.

[OyiL]

I think this will fall to BSME para tax free correct me if im wrong po and yung capital should be bellow 3M, i think ang problem dito is funding kasi nasa stage tayo ng R&D but if we encourage investor... Syempre the'yl be looking for dividen in the near future.

below 3M..is this a general requirement or applicabe to the PhUV manufacturers to keep the big boys out?

sorry, i dont know anything about business start-ups...what is BSME?

[Helios]

good! this part can be outsourced also.
would a 3D model be good enough for the visuals? we can come up with one that you can also drive in car sim video games.

3D model will suit fine for simulations and manipulations, but nothing beats a scale model for evaluation and for gathering data.

BSME> Bachelor of Science in Mech Engineering

[OyiL]

3D model will suit fine for simulations and manipulations, but nothing beats a scale model for evaluation and for gathering data.

BSME> Bachelor of Science in Mech Engineering

ahhhhh..
ganun ba? pag registered ME yung magstart-up, tax free? sinong kaya registered ME dito? but what if its not a sole-proprietor business, should all of the founders have to be registered ME's.? pwede ba registered ECE?

[architect]

OyiL,

You do not need a degree to incorporate a business. Neither is a degree required in applying for tax holidays though it comes in handy in appearing credible to potential VCs.

At this point any suggested capital requirement would be speculation in that we have not yet defined project scope nor methodology.

Let's form the team first before worrying about the logistics. Step by step, we will get to the point sooner or later.

[architect]

Guys,

Question: If, and it is a BIG if, we have access to foreign funding for the project, do we consider it, given the project's nature is somewhat nationalistic or patriotic? Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks.

[OyiL]

Guys,

Question: If, and it is a BIG if, we have access to foreign funding for the project, do we consider it, given the project's nature is somewhat nationalistic or patriotic? Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks.

I dont mind. as long as the source does not have control that affects the overall purpose of the project, its good.