R & D (Research and Duplicate) - Why don't we do it?

[uls]

that's one advantage of China's command economy

they can force manufacturers to keep producing even if there's no demand

their goal is to keep people working

here nobody's crazy enough to produce something that has no market

[niky]

i suppose the 40k units are composed of local and export sales already; or local sales only?

Yup. But export where? We'd need to build RHD vehicles to export to other ASEAN countries, and even then, we will have issues with price-competitiveness.

Our possible export markets in LHD are Cambodia, Vietnam, China and Taiwan. We can't beat Cambodia or Vietnam for labor costs. We can't penetrate the Chinese market at all, and Taiwan is not likely to want our cars.

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Like I said... if we drop the whole "Pinoy Pride" thing and want to do something that has a good chance of success, invest in Gordon Murray. The T25 will not likely dethrone the Maruti Alto anytime soon, but if you have a three-seat SMART car with high content, exceptional build quality (and our local labor can do that) and a boutique price tag, then we could build that and export it to other Asian markets (hey... we have JPEPA). I'd say lease out the Ford plant and churn those suckers out. Give them a "luxury" price tag of 600-700k pesos and position them as toys for rich men's wives. They'd snap them up in Singapore, HK, Taiwan and China.

[dfopiso]

yun palang minimum na 40k units for a single model lang

how about a policy to phaseout our jeepneys by a PHUV. to lower cost to operators, pwede sigurong w/ or w/o aircon option. tapos up to 5 yrs lang pwedeng i-operated. abot kaya ng 40k units per year?

pwede rin sigurong mag consolidate ng taxi model (isa lang). max of 5 yrs din lang operation

[EVO-V]

Yup. But export where? We'd need to build RHD vehicles to export to other ASEAN countries, and even then, we will have issues with price-competitiveness.

Our possible export markets in LHD are Cambodia, Vietnam, China and Taiwan. We can't beat Cambodia or Vietnam for labor costs. We can't penetrate the Chinese market at all, and Taiwan is not likely to want our cars.

-

Like I said... if we drop the whole "Pinoy Pride" thing and want to do something that has a good chance of success, invest in Gordon Murray. The T25 will not likely dethrone the Maruti Alto anytime soon, but if you have a three-seat SMART car with high content, exceptional build quality (and our local labor can do that) and a boutique price tag, then we could build that and export it to other Asian markets (hey... we have JPEPA). I'd say lease out the Ford plant and churn those suckers out. Give them a "luxury" price tag of 600-700k pesos and position them as toys for rich men's wives. They'd snap them up in Singapore, HK, Taiwan and China.

Manufacturing RHD cars aren't necessarily more expensive given platforms. EON, parent company of Proton essentially got Mitsubishi to invest in Malaysia in order to sell in 3-4 generation old vehicles in that market. The patronage politics that serve EON and many local car companies made it costlier for Malaysians to own better quality vehicles.

After AFTA set in, the Proton brand couldn't shed its corrupt government roots to compete. There was a joint venture that was so close to fruition with Volkswagen that fell through because EON insisted on using its local supply chain. Go figure.

The same thing goes for Chinese companies. They do receive subsidies from the Chinese government because government officials own commercial interests in most of these companies.

[niky]

We would need to allocate a separate line, mechanisms and moldings for the RHD dashboard and steering assembly. As well as RHD specific headlights and mirrors. That's extra expense.

Yeah... Like I said before... Pride and a false sense of nationalism... Part of Proton's downfall.

yun palang minimum na 40k units for a single model lang

how about a policy to phaseout our jeepneys by a PHUV. to lower cost to operators, pwede sigurong w/ or w/o aircon option. tapos up to 5 yrs lang pwedeng i-operated. abot kaya ng 40k units per year?

pwede rin sigurong mag consolidate ng taxi model (isa lang). max of 5 yrs din lang operation

Operators would never achieve Return On Investment if they had to buy new Jeeps every five years.

Hell, marginal ka nga kung brand new Jeep ang line mo.

If you want to retire old Jeepneys, buy them from owners and subsidize new lines. Also strictly limit franchise numbers. Then increase fares. Higher fares allow for newer and better jeeps.

Don't ev

[dfopiso]

^ smells government subsidy ... higher tax or higher fare

baka naman >100% ang benefit/cost ratio

[donbuggy]

it's year 2012 and the Phils. still manufactures in right angles

i guess nobody here is investing in machines the can mass produce curves

Dieless NC forming:





Is this process feasible for low volume local manufacturing?

[uls]

this machine creates a helmet out of a solid piece of aluminum

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbdgUBwKcsg[/ame]

[uls]

3D printing -- the future of manufacturing

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QP73uTJApw]Zcorp 3D Printer 650 - YouTube[/ame]

[uls]

in the future you won't need factories with hundreds (or thousands) of workers to produce auto parts

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3D printing gun parts

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow[/ame]



3D printing will be the end of factories

[niky]

in the future you won't need factories with hundreds (or thousands) of workers to produce auto parts

---

3D printing gun parts

Make a Working GUN using a 3D Printer! 100% Legal. Amature GunSmith Makes an AR-15 Rifle - YouTube



3D printing will be the end of factories

Not necessarily. Mass production will always be cheaper. But there are certain industries that will be affected by 3D printing.

[ghosthunter]

in the future you won't need factories with hundreds (or thousands) of workers to produce auto parts

---

3D printing gun parts

[ame]www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqzJlBcCsow[/ame]



3D printing will be the end of factories

3D printing will not replace factories. But it will enable consumers to enjoy lower minimum order quantities (MOQ) for certain products in the future. Just like computer printers, it has not replaced mass printed media but it enabled the private user to make his own documents. 3D printing will enable private users to make certain objects at their home or office, instead of having to have it done in a machine shop, etc.

[EVO-V]

Clearly if your exposure to manufacturing is just limited to the internet you wouldn't be able to understand why machining, 3D printing, and the host of your "factory ending" fabrication techniques can never have the same economies of scale such as forging, stamping and injection molding.

Declaring manufacturing dead with those processes is tantamount to saying that the CD/DVD burner would kill the traditional CD/DVD manufacturing process.

Those processes are more for rapid prototyping, visualization and custom development or manufacturing of high precision parts.

The right process for the right part at the right volume.

Don't believe the marketing "hype" that come with these technologies. The spin tends to yank the impressionable types first.

[uls]

yeah yeah whatever

wake me up when your industrialization of the Philippines finally happens

[uls]

state-of-the-art manufacturing in the Philippines -- forging, stamping, injection molding

exactly like 19th century America

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this is like jpdm cheerleading the Phil. auto/autoparts industry all over again

one can feel the energy and enthusiasm in his posts... the same energy and enthusiasm felt during the time of the PhUV

[EVO-V]

state-of-the-art manufacturing in the Philippines -- forging, stamping, injection molding

exactly like 19th century America

Actually still pretty much like 21st century manufacturing. The refinements in metallurgy, mechanical engineering, the introduction of controls and new techniques are the evident changes from these processes back then but essentially still the same.

19th Century America used steam engines and belt driven machinery at a point when a 4 megawatt DC generator was the size of 6 double deck buses parked in columns of 2.

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this is like jpdm cheerleading the Phil. auto/autoparts industry all over again

one can feel the energy and enthusiasm in his posts... the same energy and enthusiasm felt during the time of the PhUV

The PHUV was a disaster in an acronym, and an apocalyptic display of mediocrity in prototyping. Intolerant control freakery put an end to those threads.

But seriously, what industry do you hail from to speak with any measure of authority on the state of affairs here? This isn't a rhetorical question. Your posts appear to be more the byproduct of an unhappy childhood as opposed to opinions formed by any palpable technical merit.

You seem to be happy in putting down a multi-billion dollar sector with nothing more than snide remarks and youtube links to your fantastical world of mass-manufacturing demise. That is unfair to people who've put up businesses and dismisses the government efforts expended in setting these up.

The greatest fault of the automotive and manufacturing industry here, is the sheer neglect to project itself as a center of excellence when they perfectly can. Of course the *** appeal has little to do with impressing their clients as with impressing armchair pundits like you.

This isn't cheer leading, this is the state of affairs but there will never be enough facts to dissuade people like you from finding solace and happiness in the failure of this nation.

[uls]

But seriously, what industry do you hail from to speak with any measure of authority on the state of affairs here? This isn't a rhetorical question. Your posts appear to be more the byproduct of an unhappy childhood as opposed to opinions formed by any palpable technical merit.

and from what industry are your from that makes such an "authority"? you're an insider? if you are then you're not objective. naturally you would talk up your industry (which you're doing)

You seem to be happy in putting down a multi-billion dollar sector with nothing more than snide remarks and youtube links to your fantastical world of mass-manufacturing demise.

i havent been proven wrong 3D printing and robots will revolutionize manufacturing. it will take years before i'll be proven wrong. or right

i'll come back to this thread when multi-thousand-worker factories are made obsolete

This isn't cheer leading, this is the state of affairs but there will never be enough facts to dissuade people like you from finding solace and happiness in the failure of this nation.

you're cheerleading. like jpdm

even if you're not cheerleading you're obviously sympathetic to the industry --->

That is unfair to people who've put up businesses and dismisses the government efforts expended in setting these up.

You apparently are more keen on putting down an industry that employs more people than you actually could care for.

and you say you're objective?

Lastly, I don't have to be infinitely right, I just have to be objective.

yeah right

[lowslowbenz]

Am makin some popcorn! ...

[uls]

while some businessmen here are still investing in factories that rely on headache-causing human labor (demand for higher wages, govt-mandated employee benefits, strikes, whatever)

manufacturers in other countries are moving away from that

The rise of the robots |Industries |chinadaily.com.cn

Foxconn Technology Group, one of the largest electronics contract manufacturers in the world making products for Apple, Sony and HP, among others, is the best example in the increasing use of industrial robots. The company has been plagued by scandals in the past over the treatment of employees. It suffered a string of suicides by young workers at its massive Chinese plants which some blame on working pressure.

Terry Gou, chairman of Foxconn, said last year that his company plans to replace human employees with 1 million robots in the next three years and the robots will be used to carry out simple and routine work such as spraying, welding and assembling which are conducted by workers.

[EVO-V]

and from what industry are your from that makes such an "authority"? you're an insider? if you are then you're not objective. naturally you would talk up your industry (which you're doing)

You're not very good at this honesty thing are you? You seem to have this knack of looking at things from the wrong end of a municipal drain pipe and wonder why you keep getting get sewage treatment for it.

I cite manufacturing process, you cite 19th century, what is wrong with 19th century technology I ask? Now you cry lack of objectivity. Luddites at least knew when to give up.

Again, what industry are you from? If you insist on being less than truthful about this simple notion, it will only prove that your authority is based on facts and an overestimation of your opinions' value.

i havent been proven wrong 3D printing and robots will revolutionize manufacturing. it will take years before i'll be proven wrong. or right

i'll come back to this thread when multi-thousand-worker factories are made obsolete

I don't expect to see you around then. :D

3D printers take hours to produce a part when conventional processes can simply do so in seconds. Even if that's reduced to minutes, it cannot compete in doing things it wasn't designed to do. It will at best complement manufacturing as a process but not replace other conventional methods of manufacturing.

Factories that do not update themselves according to their industry will get left behind. That's commonsense. But your notion is too simplistic when you apply it entirely to industries at large given some processes are that mature that any incremental efficiencies would require enough economic impetus to invest in it to get that gain.

Automate when and where it is appropriate.

you're cheerleading. like jpdm

even if you're not cheerleading you're obviously sympathetic to the industry --->

and you say you're objective?

I'm sympathetic to facts and progress. How about you, what's your problem with pompoms? You're either lying to keep your poorly thought out ideas sacrosanct or demonstrating your ability to be constantly misinformed.

The industry is too large to label it unsuccessful or our economy less industrialized based on anecdotal evidence and far more limited experience. Manufacturing in this economy will go on and on without your approval.

I apologize for giving your whimsy more value than it should possess.