RPM drops & electricals turn off (split secs) when A/C compressor engages

[jeDi13]

Hi fellow Tsikoteers.

Please help me with my Civic ES A/T. I started to notice that the car has been having hard starting problem recently. It's not that often though. To quantify the frequency, maybe once a week, and no particular time of the day. But what I noticed is that after a drive (short or long distance) and then I turned off the engine, I won't be able to start the car the next time I will turn it on (for about 5-15 mins since shut down). There's a little crank at first, and then it fades away as I try it further until there's no cranking at all. But I have to reiterate that this doesn't happen always, all the time, and frequently.

But what bothers me is that starting yesterday, the RPM drops to 200-400, radio turns off, ABS and SRS dashboard lights turn on and off, A/C fan turns off (all happens in a split second), when the A/C compressor engages. The engine doesn't die nor vibrates. It's as if there's a less than a second loss of current. I fear that it will die while in use (still doesn't happen though) if I won't be able to solve the problem soon.

I've read that it could be the idle up actuator, servo, throttle body, IACV, or the A/C compressor. But please take note that this doesn't happen all the time, every time so I'm having doubts the problem could be those. How about the battery? Is there any chance it would be the culprit?

Thanks in advance.

[jick.cejoco]

Hi fellow Tsikoteers.

Please help me with my Civic ES A/T. I started to notice that the car has been having hard starting problem recently. It's not that often though. To quantify the frequency, maybe once a week, and no particular time of the day. But what I noticed is that after a drive (short or long distance) and then I turned off the engine, I won't be able to start the car the next time I will turn it on (for about 5-15 mins since shut down). There's a little crank at first, and then it fades away as I try it further until there's no cranking at all. But I have to reiterate that this doesn't happen always, all the time, and frequently.

But what bothers me is that starting yesterday, the RPM drops to 200-400, radio turns off, ABS and SRS dashboard lights turn on and off, A/C fan turns off (all happens in a split second), when the A/C compressor engages. The engine doesn't die nor vibrates. It's as if there's a less than a second loss of current. I fear that it will die while in use (still doesn't happen though) if I won't be able to solve the problem soon.

I've read that it could be the idle up actuator, servo, throttle body, IACV, or the A/C compressor. But please take note that this doesn't happen all the time, every time so I'm having doubts the problem could be those. How about the battery? Is there any chance it would be the culprit?

Thanks in advance.

try to see what the ignition switch is doing by temporarily install a light where you can observe it. the light should be on when the ignition switch is in the run mode. tap the bulb feed wire to circuit 15. if the switch was bad and has an intermittent loose connection, just like what you stated in your symptoms, the light will turn off with the temporary loss of power to circuit 15

[jeDi13]

thanks jick. but I have little to no knowledge when it comes to auto electrical. so when you say "circuit 15", where exactly are you referring to? and what tools should I need in order to perform those steps?

[jeDi13]

yung iba, any idea mga sir?

[ParticleX]

How old is your battery na? Check if there are white deposits on the terminals. Go to a battery shop and have it load tested, bigyan mo na lang ng pang-yosi.

Hirap pa naman sa ating mga A/T cars ang mamatayan ng battery. Kung pwede lang ilagay sa 2 at itulak...

[jeDi13]

more than 2 years na rin. pero nung 1st year is hindi naman daily drive. wala namang deposits sa terminals. sige ipa-check ko na rin, tutal out of warranty na. hirap lang kasi na sabihin ng mekaniko na palitan ganitong part, bili nalang ng bago kaya nagtanong muna ako rito. thanks ParticleX sa reply.

[glenn manikis]

yung iba, any idea mga sir?

alternator ang problema mo sir... nakakabit din ang rpm sa alternator... if there are times your rpm is dropping it means your alternator is giving out below normal amperes... probably palitin na carbon brush mo... kaya it does not happen naman all the time kasi meron pang natitira sa carbon brush mo...

ask ko lang sir.. nabaha ka ba?

[jick.cejoco]

Circuit 15 is HOT IN RUN or the same feed as the PCM and the ignition coil. Hondas are know for bad ignition switch. Try this first


Nakiki wi-fi lang

[jeDi13]

alternator ang problema mo sir... nakakabit din ang rpm sa alternator... if there are times your rpm is dropping it means your alternator is giving out below normal amperes... probably palitin na carbon brush mo... kaya it does not happen naman all the time kasi meron pang natitira sa carbon brush mo...

ask ko lang sir.. nabaha ka ba?

oks sige sir glenn, ipapa-check ko na rin yung alternator. pero hindi naman nabaha (at least during my ownership). 2nd hand ko lang kasi nabili 2 years ago na. pero ngayon lang siya naging ganyan. kakapunta ko lang sa Honda SPA for valve cover gasket replacement. iniisip ko rin may loose connections na tinamaan sa pagkalas/pagkabit ng valve cover. thanks!

Circuit 15 is HOT IN RUN or the same feed as the PCM and the ignition coil. Hondas are know for bad ignition switch. Try this first


Nakiki wi-fi lang

okay, this has been noted sir jick. i'll take note of this and mention to the mechanic. thanks!

[non-vtec]

Regarding the cranking issue, experienced that in old civic. Problem was poor grounding. It could also be the cause on your power loss sa electrical. Suggest you tighten and clean the battery's negative and positive cable and other body grounds using sand paper/wire brush. Try those first because it won't cost you a centavo.

[jeDi13]

Thanks non-vtec for the additional info. Now I have a lot of homework to do. I just hope the engine doesn't die while in use. Thanks again guys.

[jeDi13]

Just an update (for sharing purposes and for future reference as well to those who might experience this problem), I went to several auto-electrical shops and they said:
- battery needs replacement
- broken alternator


I went to buy the easiest part, the battery. Voila! It still doesn't work. Though the most sensible explanation was from a battery shop. He said that the battery is already busted, and the alternator is not charging correctly. From the voltmeter, the reading was 14V with A/C on, and it drops down to 12V with HL and A/C turned on. That's a problem as per the mechanic. It should stay at 14V even with all electronics turned on. His explanation was the alternator is not charging the battery/supplying enough current anymore. Nag-aagawan daw, kaya pati yung dashboard lights, nag-d-dim with HL turned on. And the reason why the engine conked out after an hour drive in traffic is that the A/C and HL are getting current from the battery that is not charging. So eventually, it was drained. Now I have a new battery, it would take a longer time to get drained, but the problem is still there: the alternator.

I also asked what needs to be done to the alternator, the auto-electrician told me that it needs replacement. It can be repaired/rewinded, but not the carbon repair. If there's a problem with the carbon, the battery dashboard light indicator will always turn on. But that's not the case for me. It was never on. Now I asked them to repair the alternator, but they prefer the surplus replacement and quoted me Php 4.5K.

Any comments fellow tsikoteers on the surplus alternator? Is it better than a repaired alternator? Is 4.5K a fair amount of parts and labor cost? Can you suggest an auto-electrical shop that you know or trust that repairs/replaces alternators? Thanks again in advance guys!

[glenn manikis]

Source your surplus alternator from mardenrey sir...

Sent from my C2305 using Tsikot Forums mobile app

[glenn manikis]

Imo buying surplus alternator is better than repairing it..

Sent from my C2305 using Tsikot Forums mobile app

[nels76]

Jedi,

Same tayo ng symptoms and the problem was the Alternator. I had it fixed sa isang Alternator Shop sa may San Marcelino Street, Ermita, Manila.

Ganon din problem. Di na sya nag cha charge.

Good thing my Alternator was still repaired.
Nakita nila na busted lang yong isang Diode. They replaced all Diodes and Exciters in the process kasi di na maibalik yong connection if they would not replace the Diodes and Exciters na di naman sira.

Cost me P2000 for the alternator repair and another 850 don sa nagbaklas and nagbalik ng alternator ko.

I would say this option is still better than getting a surplus.
Pag surplus, alam naman nating reconditioned yon. Nasira na yon at inayos lang nila.
Di mo alam ano naging sira non at anong repair ang ginawa.

At least yong ginawa sa akin, alternator ko pa din yon. Nagpalit lang ng diodes.

[jeDi13]

Source your surplus alternator from mardenrey sir...

Sent from my C2305 using Tsikot Forums mobile app

uy thanks sir glenn. tinanong ko nga yung sinabi mo about sa carbon brush pero hindi pa nga tinitingnan ng auto-electrician yung alternator, walang hesitation na sinabing surplus replacement agad. hanap din ako ng 2nd opinion. parang hindi ako tiwala sa pinagtanungan ko. tska baka hindi na ibalik yung alternator ko kung bibili ako ng surplus.

Jedi,

Same tayo ng symptoms and the problem was the Alternator. I had it fixed sa isang Alternator Shop sa may San Marcelino Street, Ermita, Manila.

Ganon din problem. Di na sya nag cha charge.

Good thing my Alternator was still repaired.
Nakita nila na busted lang yong isang Diode. They replaced all Diodes and Exciters in the process kasi di na maibalik yong connection if they would not replace the Diodes and Exciters na di naman sira.

Cost me P2000 for the alternator repair and another 850 don sa nagbaklas and nagbalik ng alternator ko.

I would say this option is still better than getting a surplus.
Pag surplus, alam naman nating reconditioned yon. Nasira na yon at inayos lang nila.
Di mo alam ano naging sira non at anong repair ang ginawa.

At least yong ginawa sa akin, alternator ko pa din yon. Nagpalit lang ng diodes.

buti na-repair pa sa'yo sir nels. sana nga ma-repair din yung akin. i'm open for a surplus replacement or a repair. tska depende rin sa price difference ng dalawa.

thanks sir nels for sharing the address of the shop.

[12vdc]

If V drops below charging Voltage(13.8V) when loaded, it means the alternator is not pumping much electrons into your electrical system. It could be due to the simpliest things like poor grounding contacts alternator needs cleaning, brushes are worn/dirty giving poor contact, or the regulator/ exciter diodes are shot.

I'd say, pulling the alternator and having it refurbished/reprocessed at the alternator shop would cost you less..
Doing replacement route would cost you more in less time -mechanic would normally chose this route to save him time in troubleshooting, he gets job done for less time at the expense of the customer (ala casa style).

It will depend on your budget and time which route to take, at least now its clear that the alternator is the problem.

[jeDi13]

nice, thanks sir 12vdc for the explanation. so that pretty much sums it up. sige sir, i'll have the alternator repaired nalang. kung wala na talaga, then tska nalang ako mag-surplus.

aside from mardenrey and the shop suggested by sir nels, any trustworthy shop/s that you guys want to add mara mapagtanungan din?

[non-vtec]

I'd go for surplus na lang. At least its OEM spec pa. Just look for a fresh unit. Problem kasi with recon, is that we're not sure how long will the other components will last. Given the driving conditions here in Manila na sobrang extreme. At least a gently used alternator could last longer.