The Asian Superpowers are Back--China and India: RP, compete or cooperate?

[jpdm]

During Ancient times (Persian and Egyptian Empires), Antiquities ( Helenistic Period--Alexander the Great) and the early part of the Medieval period----commanding vast lands from the borders of Persia (Iran) to the Himalayas to the borders of Indochina and with more than 5,000 years of continuous civilization--they are known as the superpowers of Asia. Alexander the Great and even Marco Polo--were astonished by the wealth and advance but mystic civilizations of these giants....

With a brief hiatus during the Age of Discovery until the end of Cold War---China and India are back and are slowly regaining their status as the Giants of Asia.

With the spectacular economic growth of China and India since the 1990s, economists around the world are predicting that China and India will again dominate and lead the so-called Asia-Pacific Century....

As a micro state.....are we going to compete with these Asian economic colossus or just cooperate with them.......

[Isuzoom]

cooperation and healthy economic competition.

[uls]

compete or cooperate?

We are already competing with them... and with every country in the world. Last time i checked, we are still part of the global economy...

China leads the world in manufacturing. China is the world's factory. As far as our manufacturing sector is concerned, we dont stand a chance. Many countries dont stand a chance.

India leads the world when it comes to business process outsourcing. But we are very close behind. This is one area where we can actually win. We can become number one in BPO.

But... considering where India is right now, they still couldnt get majority of its people out of poverty.

So even if we reach India's standing, there will still be a lot of poor people.

Even China... much of their people is still poor.

here's a recent article from International Herald Tribune about India... very interesting: http://iht.com/articles/2007/07/16/opinion/edmehta.php

[jpdm]

[quote=uls;861381]But... considering where India is right now, they still couldnt get majority of its people out of poverty.

So even if we reach India's standing, there will still be a lot of poor people.

Even China... much of their people is still poor.

China and India are very old countries. Ang difference siguro ay walang caste system sa China pero grabe sa India. Pag kabilang ka sa pinakamababa at yun yung pinakamarami sa kanila..condemned ka nang mahirap habang buhay....1 billion--ilan kaya dun ang mga untouchables....

China, marami ng yumayaman lalo na sa Coastal areas nila....inner Mongolia, na ku dami parin mahirap.... 1.3 billion ba naman..

Ang similarity natin sa mga giants na ito ay marami din tayong mahihirap na kababayan. Ang India, ang mayaman, lalong yumayaman. Sa China, ganun din.

Sa PInas lalo na. Walang kapital. wala. walang lupa.wala.Tumataas daw GNP, pero sabi ng SWS, lalong dumadami ang mahirap sa bansa...

Anyway....

[A121]

Industrial development depends on how much we spend on research and development. Dapat maganda din ang environment for R and D.

sa india, daming PhD graduates nila bumabalik from the US. boom ang R and D malamang sa India.

[jpdm]

India is indeed becoming a world economic power. Mittal, a steel firm owned by an Indian industrialist is gobbling steel plants in Europe.

In the Philippines, an Indian multinational firm took over the largest steel mill in the country.

China, on the other hand, is flexing her economic muscles...In the Philippines, Chinese firms are beginning to make in roads...

Globally, China is the best performer among "developing countries" .....

[oldblue]

being Giants, you have more to lose.

being David, you have less to lose. compete tayo hehehe

[Lucius]

Cooperate then compete. Learn muna from them, then start hinting. Tapos make your major move. Kaso base sa economy natin ngayon, mukhang pang 2200 na mangyayari yun or pag may MRT na papuntang Jupiter.

[jpdm]

The Philippines it seems is becoming one of the favorites of Chinese development loans, credit facilities and investments...

[Fozzie Bear]

Dear Tsikot colleagues,
Some of the comments regarding Chinese manufacturing capability posted on this thread make me sad when I read them so I want to put the record straight.
Take it from me as the Director of Engineering in a joint Taiwanese/US owned manufacturing facility, living and working in mainland China that they are successful in the world marketplace mainly because of the greed of western employees basically pricing themselves out of the market.
Why do I think you should listen to me....well my position within the company (and I'm talking about a US$400 million operation now with 7 factories from Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Ningbo and Shunde as well as Hong Kong) gives me quite a responsibility for product development and quality.

However the Chinese ability at inovation is extremely limited, in fact almost non-existant. The only thing that the Chinese are good at it COPYING.

I have personally seen more talent, more creativity and more dedication to quality here in Philippines than China, and recent news reports about the safety of imported products from there should not be taken lightly!
Consider this fact - They will find the cheapest possible material to manufacture something from irrespective of it's suitability for the task. I know this because I have to source components full time and it is an extremely frustrating task maintaining a reliable quality flow. What you see may look like what you expect, but that is where the similarity ends.

It saddens me because of the tremendous talent you have here at your disposal and the abundance of cheap labour (actually cheaper than China). Part of my new brief is to scout throughout the Philippines as an alternative source for my company's products. Believe me when I say that I am on your side!
I am relishing the thought of the Philippines becoming the next Asian super centre for world trade. You certainly have it in your capability. All that is needed is the political willpower and determination.

For the record, I am English and have a fabulously beautiful Pilipino wife and a home in Palawan.

[jpdm]

Dear Tsikot colleagues,
I have personally seen more talent, more creativity and more dedication to quality here in Philippines than China, and recent news reports about the safety of imported products from there should not be taken lightly!
Consider this fact - They will find the cheapest possible material to manufacture something from irrespective of it's suitability for the task. I know this because I have to source components full time and it is an extremely frustrating task maintaining a reliable quality flow. What you see may look like what you expect, but that is where the similarity ends.

It saddens me because of the tremendous talent you have here at your disposal and the abundance of cheap labour (actually cheaper than China). Part of my new brief is to scout throughout the Philippines as an alternative source for my company's products. Believe me when I say that I am on your side!
I am relishing the thought of the Philippines becoming the next Asian super centre for world trade. You certainly have it in your capability. All that is needed is the political willpower and determination.

For the record, I am English and have a fabulously beautiful Pilipino wife and a home in Palawan.

As an Englishman coming from one of the richest countries and the First Industrialized country in the world...these words are definitely heart -warming for a pinoy like me...

Indeed, the problem with pinoys is that despite their awareness that there are lots of world-class pinoys out there (especially alot of Tsikoteers--who are indeed very very talented and highly-skilled), they just dont have confidence on their own kababayans, or fellow pinoys.

I think we have to learn more from your great country--how your country harnessed your own people (The guys from Cambridge and London School of Economics....)

Anyway, I hope you will push through with your plan to look for people here to work for you...in Tsikot you can definitely find one....

We can compete with our Asian giant neighbors as long as we get as acts
together....


More power sir!!

[uls]

Dear Tsikot colleagues,
Some of the comments regarding Chinese manufacturing capability posted on this thread make me sad when I read them so I want to put the record straight.
Take it from me as the Director of Engineering in a joint Taiwanese/US owned manufacturing facility, living and working in mainland China that they are successful in the world marketplace mainly because of the greed of western employees basically pricing themselves out of the market.
Why do I think you should listen to me....well my position within the company (and I'm talking about a US$400 million operation now with 7 factories from Beijing, Tianjin, Shanghai, Ningbo and Shunde as well as Hong Kong) gives me quite a responsibility for product development and quality.

However the Chinese ability at inovation is extremely limited, in fact almost non-existant. The only thing that the Chinese are good at it COPYING.

I have personally seen more talent, more creativity and more dedication to quality here in Philippines than China, and recent news reports about the safety of imported products from there should not be taken lightly!
Consider this fact - They will find the cheapest possible material to manufacture something from irrespective of it's suitability for the task. I know this because I have to source components full time and it is an extremely frustrating task maintaining a reliable quality flow. What you see may look like what you expect, but that is where the similarity ends.

It saddens me because of the tremendous talent you have here at your disposal and the abundance of cheap labour (actually cheaper than China). Part of my new brief is to scout throughout the Philippines as an alternative source for my company's products. Believe me when I say that I am on your side!
I am relishing the thought of the Philippines becoming the next Asian super centre for world trade. You certainly have it in your capability. All that is needed is the political willpower and determination.

For the record, I am English and have a fabulously beautiful Pilipino wife and a home in Palawan.

Political willpower and determination will not turn "the Philippines into the next Asian super centre for world trade".

Sir, do you know what we lack here?

As u pointed out, we have no shortage of manpower. We also have no shortage of talented, innovative and creative people.

WE LACK CAPITAL. yes CAPITAL. Money. In the billions of dollars.

Years and years of political instability and negative international image has made us very, very unattractive to capital.

China, on the other hand, has attracted capital like no one else.

No matter how talented ur people are, no matter how large ur workforce is, no matter how willing they are to work, if there is no capital, the people are TAMBAY.

People here just dont realize how powerful some folks are.

Decision-makers in New York and London and Tokyo and in some secluded island with a private airstrip to land the Gulfstream G550.... they determine the fate of nations.

They can turn on and off the flow of capital into countries all over the world.
It's like water rationing. Except that they ration money.

We are feeling the power of their decisions. We get very little of the rations.

Countries all over the world feel the power of their decisions. China feels it.

What our leaders can do is to make our country attractive to them. And they will allow more capital to flow in.

[jpdm]

Political willpower and determination will not turn "the Philippines into the next Asian super centre for world trade".
Sir, do you know what we lack here?
As u pointed out, we have no shortage of manpower. We also have no shortage of talented, innovative and creative people.
WE LACK CAPITAL. yes CAPITAL. Money. In the billions of dollars.
Years and years of political instability and negative international image has made us very, very unattractive to capital.
China, on the other hand, has attracted capital like no one else.
No matter how talented ur people are, no matter how large ur workforce is, no matter how willing they are to work, if there is no capital, the people are TAMBAY.
People here just dont realize how powerful some folks are.
Decision-makers in New York and London and Tokyo and in some secluded island with a private airstrip to land the Gulfstream G550.... they determine the fate of nations.
They can turn on and off the flow of capital into countries all over the world.
It's like water rationing. Except that they ration money.
We are feeling the power of their decisions. We get very little of the rations.
Countries all over the world feel the power of their decisions. China feels it.
What our leaders can do is to make our country attractive to them. And they will allow more capital to flow in.

Indeed, capital (FDIs) is controlled by a few countries (G7, OECD) but political will of the philippine govt can still break the chain.....

The NICs (S.Korea, China) are nothing more but LDCs ( Less Developed Countries) according to Western ...errrr... World Bank standards in the past....

But now, look at them....S. Korea and China are officially creditor nations now.....

Political will can help us lift ourselves from the grave that we ourselves dug...the Philippines for one, according to estimates, is one of the most mineralized country in the world...literally sitting in a mountain of gold...plus we have 10-12 million OFWs that remit every year around $10-14 billion to our economy ( a whopping 500 billion pesos a year).....

Grabe, if only the government harness these potentials by coming up with the right policies, reduce rampant smuggling, eliminate the damning graft and corruption, attract local (OFW) investments, more exports, more support for local products from the Pinoys, unite Pinoys as one ( make them think as one and help one another)...all in all, increase the domestic production capacity.....we can easily compete with China and India.

Look what S. Korea has done, the political will of the state plus the nationalism of Koreans (during the 1997 Asian meltdown, the Korean government asked the people to help the country recover from the crisis The Korean people responded by contributing anything to help their country i.e. personal wealth--jewelries, cash donations etc., investments etc.)helped them to recover fast.

Gumaya din tayo, nag-appeal din si Jose De Venecia sa Pinoy....walang nangyari...bakit?walang tiwala sa gobyerno..

We can compete, but we must cooperate only. I agree uls with you, we need to attract also these global players....the TNCs and MNCs and those players in New York, London and Tokyo...

[CVT]

Dear Tsikot colleagues,

I am relishing the thought of the Philippines becoming the next Asian super centre for world trade. You certainly have it in your capability. All that is needed is the political willpower and determination.
.

I agree here 100%,- we need political willpower and determination to be one of the better countries in the world!

We need political willpower to invest in infrastructures and make policies that will make the business climate here very attractive for local and foreign investments,- that is where the capital will come from.

And, most importantly,- we have to be consistent at that, even if there is a change in the powers to be.

Again (and I should say I said it probably a few in times in this website), the Semicon Association in the Philippines have voiced out their grave concern to Malacanang for the power rate in this country since a couple of decades ago because we are one of the most expensive in the region. And, outside of salaries and wages, cost of electricity is the biggest chunk in our operating cost.

Has anything been done to alleviate the situation? No. Well, that is where your political will starts....

3404:surfing:

[uls]

Our govt is very unfriendly to business. Policies and contracts can change at whim. There's massive red tape and there's downright extortion.

If ur an investor, u look like a walking wallet to govt people. Before u even start breaking ground on ur new factory, u would already have spent a lot of money on "fees".

Why would i want to deal with a govt like that? Eto na im willing to invest, tapos papahirapan pa nila ako.

I can always go to a friendlier country...

And even if i get my factory running, i have to deal with the labor unions. Whatda!? No wonder this country scares away capital.

Kaya multinationals have quit their manufacturing here. Import nalang sila from other asian countries. Warehousing and distribution nalang business nila dito. Less headache.

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Lagi natin sinasabi govt should do this, govt should do that...

Lahat nakasalalay sa govt... determination... willpower... dami demands sa govt...

Pero the govt's job is primarily to maintain peace and stability. And 2ndly, build roads and bridges. That's it. The govt has to focus on that.

Parang petri dish. Just provide a medium where bacteria will grow... and it will grow.

Businesses will naturally grow in an environment that's peaceful and stable and has the needed infrastructure.

Kidnappings, extortion, highjacking, robbery, NPA, muslim rebels... those things dont help.

[van_wilder]

we cant compete with india's technology
we cant compete with china's manufacturing

so lets just be the financial or entertainment capital... or maybe shopping capital of asia? tokyo and singapore is very vulnerable of losing the title although hongkong is holding ground.

[van_wilder]

WE LACK CAPITAL. yes CAPITAL. Money. In the billions of dollars.

maybe trillions pa we need.

[FedEx]

we cant compete we have to cooperate with them

[uls]

we can also entertain them with song and dance

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this just in-- Philippines: Southeast Asia's terror hotspot
http://www.reuters.com/article/world...rpc=22&sp=true

Way to go dudes...

[Fozzie Bear]

we cant compete we have to cooperate with them

I'm sorry if my reply offends, but this type of comment is annoyingly defeatist. What are you going to do. Lie down and let them walk all over you?
Yes of course you must co-operate, but as I said in my previous post, Philippines has far more talent and creativity than China....FACT!
25 years ago China was NOTHING, no inastructure, no factories...for example the 4 million strong city of Shenzhen (at the border close to Hong Kong New Territories) was a FISHING VILLIAGE.
Vetnam is now challenging China in certain fields (I know i've been there and sourced products CHEAPER THAN CHINA) - again only a few years ago they had nothing! There is no reason why Philippines cannot do the same.

My company now employ Pilipino designers who also teach the local Chinese workers how to weave.
My colleague's company close to me in China (he's married to a Pilipina too) has brought in dozens of Pilipino workers because the local Chinese aren't good enough.

You CAN compete. You MUST compete. You have all the talent you need to be BETTER