Timing Belt vs. Timing Chain vs. Timing Gear

[Duke]

mga guys tanong ko lang po...what makes the diffence pag yung engine mo is using a timming chain rather than yung timming belt ..nung top overhaul ng 21R engine timing chain na gamit nito..pwede bang convert ang timming belt sa chain driven ..ano ba mas maganda?

[OTEP]

Mas robust ang timing chain. It will not break as easily as a belt driven timing system. However, it is noisier esp. as it gets old and goes out of adjustment.

A timing belt will perform just as well as long as it is regularly maintained (replaced regularly). It will also be quiter.

[Ungas]

It's like comparing metal to rubber. Ofcourse metal would probably last longer than rubber. But then again, you will have to live with claterring noise the chain makes. The best bet would have to be timing gears. But this is alot heavier than the two.

I doubt it if you could source parts for the idler arms and other internal parts when coverting it from belt to chain.

[Karding]

Yung bagong Pontiac Boneville, they are using a Timing Chain instead of the Timing Belt. Timing Chain is less prone to slippage specially sa 2004 models nila with 310ft-lb na torque.

Having said this, I think Timing Chain is more useful sa high HP autos. Timing Gear, di ba dito naka-kabit ang belt and or chain? So ang comparisons lang eh Timing Belt vs. Timing Chain kse they both uses timing gear, correct? Baka ang dapat nating compare sa Timing Gear is vs the Adjustable ones?!

Adjustable ones are for people who like to mod their engine [specially with an aftermarket cams, retainers n rings, internal engine], they can adjust the timing whenever they please or whenever they add another thing on the engine.

[belcher]

Karding, 3 types ang timing- merong belt, chain and gear.

[pajerokid]

I have a timing chain equipped engine and hindi naman noticeable yung noise over its belt driven counterparts diesel kasi e, inherently maingay

[Karding]

Originally posted by belcher
Karding, 3 types ang timing- merong belt, chain and gear. just

to be sure na na-gets mo ako kapatid....

timing chain and timing belt cannot be used to contrast with timing gear. Timing gear is a part of timing components [whether it be belt driven or chain driven,] correct? I know na may chain or belt driven. but both includes a gear, correct? Kaya ang sabi ko, hindi pwedeng compare/contrast and gear with belt and chain. we can only compare/contrast a similar parts of an engine.

technically, there are two types of timing element that drives the camshafts...chain and belt driven.

A timing gear is a part of those above mentioned parts.

[OTEP]

May mga TD42 na timing gear ang gamit. Walang chain or belt, just interconnected sprockets. Na kay Ungas ang service manual. hehehehe.

Discontinued na yung gear driven kasi maingay.

[Ungas]

Karding::: Yep may mga gears nga ang chain and belt driven engines. But there are other types of engine that the actual gears bite into one another. This has been proven to be much safer than the two combined. But as OTEP have posted, gear driven engines are almost at the brink of their extinction. Most machine shops advice to change the gears when the engine is being rebuilt. Not like timing belts that require change on 80-100K kms.

Btw, my TD42 engine is timing gear driven. :D

[yebo]

karding,

ikaw yata ang nalilito. explain ko ha wag pikon ok.

1. timing chain - may sprocket. hindi po yun gears, sprocket po yun.

2. timing belt - may cogged pulley. hindi din po yun gear, pulley po yun na may ipen para dun sa coggs sa belt.

3. timing gear - ay gear talaga. yan ang gear! meron po gear dun sa crankshaft, then may idler gear (pwede sa left o right pambaliktad ng ikot ng engine) tapos may intermediate gears para sa water pump, oil pump, tapos may gear yung camshaft.

advantage ng timing gear pwede mo baliktadin ikot ng engine, like kung gamit sa stern-drive speed boat na 2 ang engines at counter-rotation ang mga propellers. ililipat mo lang yung idler gear, add another gear for reverse rotation tapos reverse rotation na starter motor, baliktad na din rotation ng engine. aandar yung oil pump, water pump saka camshafts ng same direction pero yung crankshaft reverse ang rotation. yan ginagawa sa mga boat engines para counter-rotation ang propellers. o kaya naman gusto mo 5 speed ang reverse tapos 1 speed lang ang forward ng car pwede din hehe!

magbaklas po kayo ng c240 isuzu engine makikita nyo timing gear. o kaya naman detroit diesel engine gmv71. puro timing gears gamit dyan. may makikita kayo idler gear sa kanan. ilipat nyo yun sa kaliwang butas, may add ka isang gear sa isa pang butas tapos kabitan nyo ng starter motor na reverse, baliktad na ikot ng engine.

di yata pwede convert yung timing belt sa timing chain, oil lubricated kasi yung timing chain so pano mo i-lubrictae yun? e di tutulo yung oil di ba?

[Karding]

ayun! yung yun ang sagot na hinahanap ko, yung sagot ni OTEP/OTEP. Kaya ang una kong reply eh puro question mark dahil sinisigurado ko na tama ang assumptions ko, hahaha. Eh ngayon, naliwanagan na ako. Thank you OTEP/UNGAS! Ang alam ko lang kse honda engines, hahaha

ang pinaka sapul na sagot na hanap ko eh yung 'interconnected sprockets' na nabanggit ni kasamang OTEP.

yebo, ako mapipikon? yun na yata ang pinaka- naka katawang sinabi mo na nabasa ko :hihihi:

hindi yung idle gear or intermediate gears para sa water pump, oil pump. Meron pa ngang rack n pinion gears, side gear and ring gear for differential, pero ang subject eh yung sa may camshaft in which I was corrected by OTEP [interconnecting sprockets.] And kaya ako nalito dahil hindi ko alam na may timing gear noon via interconnecting sprockets. Kaya pede naman palang compare/contrast ang timing gear, timing belt, and timing chain.

Ayan, may natutunan na naman pala ako.

[yebo]

kabit-kabit nga lahat yun, yung gear sa crankshaft naka-engaged sa idler gear, tapos engaged yung idler gear sa gear ng oil pump and water pump, then yung gear ng oil pump/water pump naka-engage sa gear ng cam shaft.

pero gear, hindi sprocket.

[Karding]

ahhhh ayun pala yonnn.

ano ba talaga? Cam Gears or Cam Sprockets? Kse kapag nag searcha ko ng gers or sprockets, same thing ang lumalabas. I think something got lost in the translation as time goes by :hihihi:
tapos ang terminology naman ng Toda, cam pulley eh pareho lang naman ang hitsura/function sa gears and or sprockets.

'interconnecting gear?' ang alam kong sprocket may kadena eh, hehe.

[Karding]

Toda Racing campulleys:
http://www.modacar.com/Merchant2/cam.../toda_cams.jpg

The Tru-Time Adjustable Cam Sprockets:
http://www.modacar.com/Merchant2/cam...s/aem_cams.jpg

Skunk2 Racing adjustable cam gears:
http://www.modacar.com/Merchant2/cam...kunk2_cams.jpg

lecheng manufacturers to, nagugulo ako amfutah, bwahaha

[ian_rex]

naku ang alam ko hindi e. pero why timing belt? mas maganda ang timing chain kasi mas prone s putol ang timing belt lalo hindi na-neglect ang maintenance. sa chain, walang ganong problema, kaya lang mas maingay.

[BlueBimmer]

imo i prefer timing chain like sa bimmers compared to timing belts of my previous civic. 1 less part to worry about hehe

[lakay]

Timing belt is used in mostly high reving engine because of smoothness in transmitting rotation from crankshaft pulley to accessory drives like camshaft. Its a lot more quieter than the timing chain or timing gear, and that is also the main reason why luxury cars like lexus, infiniti, acura or cadillac uses them. The trade off is that you have to have it replace when it reach a certain mileage (km) or hours of operation.

Timing chain is used in medium reving engine like Sentra, or other small block engine. They are a little bit noiseier than than the belt, but they last a lot longer, specially if proper lubrication is maintained.

Timing gear is used mostly on diesel engine due to high torque that is being generated by the engine, plus it can take a lot of punishment before breaking. Most big block engine like Tractor trailer (18 wheeler) or electric generators which can run forever as long as it properly lubricated.

Not many car manufacturer is using timing chain anymore due to fact that customer like you and me, like the quietness of our driving. It only hit us on the back side of our cranial when it due for replacement. It cost an arm and a leg to get replace.

[XTO]

Timing belt is used in mostly high reving engine because of smoothness in transmitting rotation from crankshaft pulley to accessory drives like camshaft. Its a lot more quieter than the timing chain or timing gear, and that is also the main reason why luxury cars like lexus, infiniti, acura or cadillac uses them. The trade off is that you have to have it replace when it reach a certain mileage (km) or hours of operation.

Timing chain is used in medium reving engine like Sentra, or other small block engine. They are a little bit noiseier than than the belt, but they last a lot longer, specially if proper lubrication is maintained.

Timing gear is used mostly on diesel engine due to high torque that is being generated by the engine, plus it can take a lot of punishment before breaking. Most big block engine like Tractor trailer (18 wheeler) or electric generators which can run forever as long as it properly lubricated.

Not many car manufacturer is using timing chain anymore due to fact that customer like you and me, like the quietness of our driving. It only hit us on the back side of our cranial when it due for replacement. It cost an arm and a leg to get replace.

well said

[squala]

All I know is that they have something to do with the cams. Kindly educate me on the rest. Thanks.

[Karding]

kapatid, here is the THREAD where I was educated about chain and belt.