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  1. Join Date
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    #41
    Quote Originally Posted by jut703 View Post
    Ok sana kung may data kang mapakita to support your argument. I have presented you multiple data sources that show that private cars comprise majority of the traffic in EDSA while being the most inefficient form of transpo in terms of passengers per square meter.

    Nobody is denying that improving traffic flow by removing loading/unloading chokepoints. But you're making a false equivalence by saying that solving the bus problem will have as big an impact as reducing the number of private cars on the road.

    Simple lang naman tanong - if we fix bus scheduling, loading/unloading, terminal locations, how many % of EDSA congestion is reduced?

    In comparison, if you reduce the number of private cars in EDSA, how many % of congestion is reduced?

    Let's assume generously that each bus contributes 5x the congestion of a private car (because undisciplined, larger size, etc etc). So if you reduce buses by half because you removed inefficient routes and all terminals on EDSAn then you impact 6,500 buses, equivalent to freeing up space for 32,000 cars.

    In comparison, reduce cars by even just a third, then you free up space for 80,000 cars. That's already a much bigger impact.

    Furthermore, by reducing buses by 6,500 on EDSA, at an assumed 20 people per bus (vs full capacity of 60 per bus). you reduce mobility for 130,000 people. In comparison, removing 80,000 cars only reduces mobility for 96,000 people.

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    Kaya nga sabi ko depende sa kalsada. Paano yun sinabi ni sweet na nawala traffic sa Taft ngayon dahil wala na rin jeeps and buses dumadaan doon. I'm assuming ganun din doon mas marami private vehicles compare sa public.

    So yun hinto hinto kung saan saan nag bara ng kalsada nawala kaya diretso lang takbo walang traffic. Wala naman kasing reason para tumigil sa kalsada mga private vehicles unlike public.





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    Last edited by shadow; June 21st, 2020 at 03:12 PM.

  2. Join Date
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    #42
    For me volume talaga big factor diyan. May bus lane naman sa edsa dun sila magbuhol buhol pero bakit yung lane ng private cars traffic pa din, eh kasi puno.

    Since third world tayo parang ang elitista nung babawasan yung bus para dire-diretso ang private cars. Pag rush hour hindi lang sasakyan ang nagpapaclog sa daan, nagkalat din ang commuters sa kalsada agawan ng masasakyan.

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  3. Join Date
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    #43
    Quote Originally Posted by dr. d View Post
    driver discipline does figure significantly in maintaining moving traffic.

    btw,
    yung mga edsa buses na bumubuntis before the underpass, nagtatambakan at ayaw umalis sa bustop?
    that, to means, one thing: there are too many buses. we can do with less.
    Nakasakay ka na sa bus sa Cubao papunta Monumento or Fairview pag gabi doc? Agawan yan. Puno lahat. Kaya may spillover ng pasahero sa daan kasi nakikipagunahan dun sa next bus.

    Same case sa Ayala, sa Crossing, sa Philcoa. Tayuan ang bus. Lumuluwag lang kapag nasa Litex na. Pag nagbawas ka ng bus sa mga rota na yan sa oras na yan, paano uuwi yung mga empleyado na walang sariling kotse?

    Ang bus, hindi puno kapag pabalik (i.e. galing Fairview or Monumento pabalik ng Baclaran or Alabang). Pero paano naman sila babalik sa terminal sa Baclaran/MOA/Alabang kung hindi sila babyahe pabalik sa EDSA?

    The systematic way to do it is to have centralized dispatching, scrapping the boundary system, and strict implementation of bus stops. But because city bus operators are able to influence regulations, they are able to keep the antiquated privatized dog-eat-dog system that we have today because it maximizes profits for them at the detriment of the entire transpo network.

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  4. Join Date
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    #44
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow View Post
    Kaya nga sabi ko depende sa kalsada. Paano yun sinabi ni sweet na nawala traffic sa Taft ngayon dahil wala na rin jeeps and buses dumadaan doon. I'm assuming ganun din doon mas marami private vehicles compare sa public.

    So yun hinto hinto kung saan saan nag bara ng kalsada nawala kaya diretso lang takbo walang traffic. Wala naman kasing reason para tumigil sa kalsada mga private vehicles unlike public.





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    Anecdotal, di na naman data-based. What are the pre-post numbers?

    I also have anecdotal first-hand experience that C5 (which has no bus routes and jeeps) remains clogged even today. Also experienced the same in Commonwealth (like the example I showed above). Same experience on Marcos Highway. Traffic pa rin dahil maraming kotse. Mas maluwag slightly than if you had public transpo, but the point stands - private cars cause the most traffic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Missy View Post
    For me volume talaga big factor diyan. May bus lane naman sa edsa dun sila magbuhol buhol pero bakit yung lane ng private cars traffic pa din, eh kasi puno.

    Since third world tayo parang ang elitista nung babawasan yung bus para dire-diretso ang private cars. Pag rush hour hindi lang sasakyan ang nagpapaclog sa daan, nagkalat din ang commuters sa kalsada agawan ng masasakyan.

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    I agree - simple lang naman eh. Put yourself in their shoes. Lahat ng nagcocomment dito mga private car owners - kelan kayo last sumakay ng bus at jeep para umuwi from Makati/BGC to Novaliches or whatever far-flung suburban area?

    I have lived longer as a commuter than as a private car owner and trust me, during rush hour the trains, buses, jeeps and tricycles are never enough. Pagod ka na sa trabaho, pagod ka pa sa pila, tayuan pa yung bus so di ka makakaidlip (baka madukutan ka pa). Araw araw yan, yung byahe ng private car na 1.5 hrs-2 hrs lang, sayo 3-4 hrs.

    Kaya ang kailangan is greater public transpo capacity - more trains, more buses (with efficient dispatching and routes).

    Once you're able to provide for this, tax car ownership exorbitantly. Private cars are still more convenient so people should pay for that convenience (that inconveniences the riding public due to road congestion). This is the direction that all developed cities have taken - less private cars, more public transpo and biking.

    Also interesting what you mentioned about elitism, there's really a sociological aspect and it emanates in this thread:
    The sociology of EDSA traffic | BusinessWorld

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    Last edited by jut703; June 21st, 2020 at 03:25 PM.

  5. Join Date
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    #45
    Baka naman puro container trucks naman andyan wala nga mga jeep puro trucks naman?

    Diba sa C5 pag andyan mga trucks sobranf traffic pero pag truck ban hinde naman.


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  6. Join Date
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    #46
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow View Post
    Baka naman puro container trucks naman andyan wala nga mga jeep puro trucks naman?

    Diba sa C5 pag andyan mga trucks sobranf traffic pero pag truck ban hinde naman.
    Kailangan natin trucks. Iyan nagdadala ng mga goods at supplies natin.

    Kawawa mga truck driver, gabi at madaling araw ang biyahe. Night shift, ang sakit sa mata hindi pa tama ang tulog.

  7. Join Date
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    #47
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow View Post
    Baka naman puro container trucks naman andyan wala nga mga jeep puro trucks naman?

    Diba sa C5 pag andyan mga trucks sobranf traffic pero pag truck ban hinde naman.


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    Even on the roads with the highest truck congestion, they only comprise <10% of road volume (i.e. sa C5, 1 lane lang ang truck pero 4 lanes ang kotse)



    Anyway paikot ikot na, dami ko nang pinresent na data point. Ikaw puro anecdotal lang. Basta hindi private may kasalanan ng congestion sa metro manila. Kahit na 2.5M sila vs a few hundred thousand of all other vehicle types. Ok got it! Traffic In Manila - Who Contributes The Most?

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  8. Join Date
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    #48
    Kapag coding, suwerte ako may convenient P2P bus route at 4pm ang uwian kaya wala pa pila.

    Na tsempo dati walang P2P, aba ang siksikan sobra sa ordinary bus, tayuan na sardinas.

    Kung kasing convenient ng P2P na maraming ruta ayos. Kaso hindi lahat naman kaya ang pamasahe niyan.

    Maganda naging exclusive bike lanes ang outer lanes. Safe, mas democratic, pabor sa hangin na mamana ng anak natin.

  9. Join Date
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    #49
    Quote Originally Posted by jut703 View Post
    Even on the roads with the highest truck congestion, they only comprise <10% of road volume (i.e. sa C5, 1 lane lang ang truck pero 4 lanes ang kotse)



    Anyway paikot ikot na, dami ko nang pinresent na data point. Ikaw puro anecdotal lang. Basta hindi private may kasalanan ng congestion sa metro manila. Kahit na 2.5M sila vs a few hundred thousand of all other vehicle types. Ok got it! Traffic In Manila - Who Contributes The Most?

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    Hinde lang private or public ang cause ng traffic yun infrastructure, undisciplined drivers...sa theory or numbers glaring talaga yun numbers ng private vs public pero mga nangyayari sa kalsada Hindd naman na pickup ng numbers eh.

    Ilan beses nag stop mga buses or jeeps kung saan saan at mag cause ng traffic? Nakukuha ba ng data yan?

    For example sa EDSA diba meron lang part na Traffic talaga after malagpasan mo wala na? Ano reason dahil nagbuntis na dahil naka harang na mga buses.

    Kahit 10 pa private cars pero diretso lang takbo nila tapos makakarating agad sa destination na walang magbistorbo na public vehicles walanf traffic eh kung melrn isang bus na hinto magsanay tapos harsnagsng yun daanan ng 10 private cars mag traffic na yan damay damay na hanggang tumukod.

    Yun sa C5 naman wala nga stop light pero nakita mo naman pag wala ng truck ban kahit middle lang sila traffic pa rin sa laki nila. Pero before and after ng truck ban wala Traffic.

    Sa Taft to divisoria kaya traffic ba ngayon walang mga jeeps? Just sa cityhall traffic kaya ngayon?

    So depende sa kalsada guide lang yan numbers pero dapat makita din yun actual ano ba talaga dahilan


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  10. Join Date
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    #50
    Quote Originally Posted by jut703 View Post

    I also have anecdotal first-hand experience that C5 (which has no bus routes and jeeps) remains clogged even today. Also experienced the same in Commonwealth (like the example I showed above). Same experience on Marcos Highway. Traffic pa rin dahil maraming kotse. Mas maluwag slightly than if you had public transpo, but the point stands - private cars cause the most traffic.
    bawal kasi ang container van sa edsa.
    sa C5 lahat sila dumadaan.
    it takes but a couple of slow-moving containers, to cause significant traffic behind them so far back, the poor motoristas do not see the cause of traffic anymore.
    Last edited by dr. d; June 21st, 2020 at 04:40 PM.

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Traffic In Manila - Who Contributes The Most?