Left turn when general green but arrow is off

**mazzipino** · October 1st, 2010 08:57 PM

That's the thing with the system here in the Philippines. Written law is different from applied law. I hear where you're coming from mate, but personally if I were in your shoes I wouldn't waste my time.

You can argue your case by all means, but don't expect it to be as civilized as it is over in Europe. Do you know the process of reclaiming your licence and paying the fine (or contesting it in court)?

My advice is to just take the rough with the smooth - meaning in other countries like the UK for example, there's a written theory test, a visual test and a strict practical test, all of which takes the average Joe a couple of months, and all of which has to be accomplished before they can get their hands on a licence. Here, well.... you could be a squatter off the street who's looking to be a tricycle driver, borrow around 2k from a relative and get a fake licence, all in a matter of minutes!! (Actually even the legit way of obtaining a licence only takes 1-2 days!!)

What I mean by taking the rough with the smooth is, just wait the 2-minutes at the intersection, it's not worth the hassle of dealing with Philippine authorities - especially since you're not from around here.

**citizengeorge** · October 1st, 2010 09:08 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the system, I know very well that things in Philippines work differently, and I don't except to be "accommodated" as if I was in Europe.

I'm just curious about how things work around here, because I want to help improve things, and I think having my own little courtroom drama would be a great story to tell my grandsons when I grow old... but I need some ammunition :-)

Have anyone tried to contest a ticket? Is it evaluated by a qualified judge, or is it just some quack from LTO who graduated 3rd class from law school? Is this what you mean by "applied law", e.g. unqualified judges that rules actually against the law?

**dr. d** · October 2nd, 2010 12:47 AM

it's like this...
first of all, we here in the philippines drive on the "wrong" side of the road, compared to the british empire.
when all you have is a general green light, you may proceed straight. those who wish to turn left, should await the time when they are given the opportunity by oncoming traffic, that is, the opposing traffic slows down or empties out.
but if there is a dedicated left arrow light, then you have to wait for that arrow to turn green, for you to turn left.
in this country, you may turn right with impunity, unless there is a sign that specifically says "no right turn on red light". but if there is a right arrow light, then you have to wait for the arrow to turn green, for you to turn right..
lastly, the human traffic enforcer in the middle of the street, can override the electric lights with his hands. watch out for his hands if he's there!
and btw, flashing headlights here does not mean, "i see you, and i give you right of way". over here, flashing headlights means, "i'm going ahead! put on your brakes!". heh heh.

**CVT** · October 2nd, 2010 04:01 PM

If the intersection has no provision(traffic light) for a left turn and there is no "no left turn sign", the international practice would be the unprotected left turn, i.e., you can turn left in the absence of the opposite traffic. The opportunity usually comes when the opposite traffic stops on their red light.

However, here in the Philippines that is not being practised. So, look for a U-turn down the road to be able make an equivalent driving maneuver.....

10.8K:lalala:

**CVT** · October 2nd, 2010 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by dr. d

and btw, flashing headlights here does not mean, "i see you, and i give you right of way". over here, flashing headlights means, "i'm going ahead! put on your brakes!". heh heh.

I think that is the practice too in some Asian countries.....

That is, the headlights are the visual equivalent of a car horn,- "get out of the way"....

10.8K:lalala:

**MikroTechie** · October 10th, 2010 09:09 PM

Hi, I managed to contest a ticket for a left turn to Acacia street towards Ayala Alabang, but that is the help of my lawyer brother who wrote to the Muntinlupa traffic adjudication lawyer who agreed with our argument. However, they have since added a red left arrow to that intersection.
It's a hastle to go to that trouble but I believe each city has it's own traffic regulations and individual interpretation, not to mention, interpretation by each enforcer. It should be timely for LTO clarify this or for Congress to update the traffic laws defining the different situations to conform to international standards. I think a law applies to all but a regulation is specific to each locality.

**citizengeorge** · October 10th, 2010 11:42 PM

I'm glad to hear that it the appeal system actually works. I've read the 90-pages Makati Traffic Code, and it actually seems to conform with the Vienna Convention on Traffic Signals, which means that there is no mention that "left arrow which is off" is the same as a red arrow, on the contrary, it merely states that a left arrow which is on is permissive, and nothing else.

But Makati Traffic Code also states that drivers should give right of way (right hand vehicle and pedestrians) but so far I haven't seen any drivers being apprehended for that violation even when the traffic cop is just next to the violator who is even what I consider a reckless driver.

I heard someone, a Filipino politician I believe, say that Philippines actually already has an excellent law system. We don't need more laws. We need implementation.

**Bakero703** · October 11th, 2010 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by MikroTechie

Hi, I managed to contest a ticket for a left turn to Acacia street towards Ayala Alabang, but that is the help of my lawyer brother who wrote to the Muntinlupa traffic adjudication lawyer who agreed with our argument. However, they have since added a red left arrow to that intersection.
It's a hastle to go to that trouble but I believe each city has it's own traffic regulations and individual interpretation, not to mention, interpretation by each enforcer. It should be timely for LTO clarify this or for Congress to update the traffic laws defining the different situations to conform to international standards. I think a law applies to all but a regulation is specific to each locality.

Sir would you be so kind and post copy of the letter that you sent to contest this ticket? Here in Pasig the mayor installed brand new traffic lights this year, and we have the same problem; a green arrow but no red arrow to tell you that you cannot go. I'd like to send that letter to someone in city hall and see if they can put a red left turn signal to stop screwing with unsuspecting visitors of the City.

I admire what citizengeorge is doing, or planning to do. I’m sure if you do try to get a ticket and battle it out in the courts with this one ridiculous anomaly in our traffic system, it can set off a trend in correcting all other stupid traffic regulations that different cities try to impose.

It truly is commonsense; if you have a green light that gives you a go signal you should also have an orange light that warns you its about to stop and a red to tell you not to go. To me its obvious, with the omission of the red arrow signal, is a scheme to cash in on unsuspecting drivers. Since they installed the new traffic lights I see it all the time; someone is signaling left, traffic going straight has a green light no green no red left turn signal, oposit traffic clears, the person signaling left goes ahead and the three or four traffic enforcer manning the intersection looks as if they knew before it even happenes, stops the confused driver, ask for license, blah blah blah, traffic enforcer stands at the back of the car, then ticket, “please pick up your license at the city hall”, and your scratching your head, uh what happened to paying at the Metrobank, “sir, we have different regulations here in “insert city here””.

You can’t even pay off these city traffic enforcers anymore because they get a cut from the tickets that they issue. Good thing there is such a thing as Karma, the people scheming these injustices will get theirs if they’re not already getting it.

**_Qwerty_** · October 11th, 2010 09:51 AM

update on the Arnaiz (Pasay Road) - Paseo De Roxas intersection.. they've changed the stop light there already.. they now have 2 stoplights one for going left and one for going straight..

**mark_t** · October 11th, 2010 10:17 AM

I wonder what is the wisdom in having all these invented rules in the philippines on traffic?

Hay! There should be only one set of rules for planet earth when it comes
to vehicle traffic rules.

Soon these will be a problem for our OFWs, we will be viewed
as risks by other countries once we step on their territories.

A country sending out people with their own set of traffic rules.