buying a toyota, advise pls

[advan]

Guys, I'd like to ask for some advise. I feel a little pressured and might not make the right decision (that will require me to pay for 5 years! hehe)

My car now is a Corolla m/t. I love it. It's 10 years old but I'd gladly keep it for another 10 more years IF only my knees aren't requesting for a change to A/T. One time, I had to drive roundtrip from Makati to Fairview twice in one day, omg, I could barely walk after each drive.

So... I was supposed to sched a buy early next year, but saw Toyota has a caravan thing promo that'll last til just end of the week. i went to check it out and my two choices are:

1. Vios 1.5G a/t- (810k less discounts= 755k) no insurance/lto
2. Altis 1.6G a/t - (869k less discounts= 804k) no insurance/lto, BUT this isn't the latest Altis but one model back (they call it the 2010 model..)

freebies: mat, tint, undercoat, seat cover

I have no idea about engines, but the SA said the engine in the 2010 Altis is the same as what's in the Vios-- which isn't the same as what's in the Altis 2011 (plus the 2010 has a different tail light and the "skirt" at the bottom which is wider, I've yet to see it... i'm just familiar with the 2011 model, accdg to the SA that's the only 3 difference..)

My questions are:
1. is the difference in the 2011 and 2010 far because of the engine difference? They didn't have the 2010 to test drive
2. are the prices super good deals already, considering they're exclusive of insurance and LTO? or they're just ok deals, same as in dealers just promoted differently
3. how would i know if the unit i'll get is very brand new? meaning isn't a "repossessed ondoy cars' or ondoy flooded in the warehouse (SA said it wasn't flooded but like she'll really say it it were)... as far as i researched, altis isn't part of any recall so that's one worry off the list... sorry for the paranoia.
4.i'm leaning towards the altis-- what else can i haggle that she might just be holding out on me? she did throw in the back sensors after some kulit... but anything else? she didn't budge on the lto/insurance freebie
5. warranty is 3 years or 100km-- can this still be bargained over?

the only thing i like about the vios was the size (and economical gas consumption) as im a small person, the feel seems closer to my corolla now, but i guess i just need to get used to the size of an altis...

any other advise regarding the models chosen or terms of purchase would be greatly welcomed!

thanks so much!!!

[blue_gambit]

Guys, I'd like to ask for some advise. I feel a little pressured and might not make the right decision (that will require me to pay for 5 years! hehe)

My car now is a Corolla m/t. I love it. It's 10 years old but I'd gladly keep it for another 10 more years IF only my knees aren't requesting for a change to A/T. One time, I had to drive roundtrip from Makati to Fairview twice in one day, omg, I could barely walk after each drive.

So... I was supposed to sched a buy early next year, but saw Toyota has a caravan thing promo that'll last til just end of the week. i went to check it out and my two choices are:

1. Vios 1.5G a/t- (810k less discounts= 755k) no insurance/lto
2. Altis 1.6G a/t - (869k less discounts= 804k) no insurance/lto, BUT this isn't the latest Altis but one model back (they call it the 2010 model..)

freebies: mat, tint, undercoat, seat cover

I have no idea about engines, but the SA said the engine in the 2010 Altis is the same as what's in the Vios-- which isn't the same as what's in the Altis 2011 (plus the 2010 has a different tail light and the "skirt" at the bottom which is wider, I've yet to see it... i'm just familiar with the 2011 model, accdg to the SA that's the only 3 difference..)

My questions are:
1. is the difference in the 2011 and 2010 far because of the engine difference? They didn't have the 2010 to test drive
2. are the prices super good deals already, considering they're exclusive of insurance and LTO? or they're just ok deals, same as in dealers just promoted differently
3. how would i know if the unit i'll get is very brand new? meaning isn't a "repossessed ondoy cars' or ondoy flooded in the warehouse (SA said it wasn't flooded but like she'll really say it it were)... as far as i researched, altis isn't part of any recall so that's one worry off the list... sorry for the paranoia.
4.i'm leaning towards the altis-- what else can i haggle that she might just be holding out on me? she did throw in the back sensors after some kulit... but anything else? she didn't budge on the lto/insurance freebie
5. warranty is 3 years or 100km-- can this still be bargained over?

the only thing i like about the vios was the size (and economical gas consumption) as im a small person, the feel seems closer to my corolla now, but i guess i just need to get used to the size of an altis...

any other advise regarding the models chosen or terms of purchase would be greatly welcomed!

thanks so much!!!

Look at other brands and models that'll fit your budget. Toyota is not the first & last when it comes to car brands. Since your not big like me, check out the ford fiesta, its the newest in the market. And has lots of features that looks like a good buy, plus it has a powershift automatic (class exclusive) like those in european cars.

[dr. d]

take the vios. the only reason an altis would be advisable, is if you were big or your passengers were big, or you do lots of highway driving (safer in bigger cars). the 2011 altis does have a newer design engine, according to the ads; what this translates to in usage, i do not know.
the prices and "freebies" are pretty standard... sometimes they give "discounts", but the insurance and registration freebies disappear..
to me, the best buys are the basic models, with no borloloys that only add to the things that might fall off in the future..
and don't be paranoid about ondoyed or repossessed "brand new cars".. just go buy it and enjoy. you can always sue them. the warranty is pretty standard and non-negotiable.
btw, there's a 1.3 vios automatic now..
if flooding were a concern, i'd advise the diesels.
it is really wise to get several written quotations so you can compare...
my 90 centavos' (2 cents') worth.
pahabol: is it true that the 1.6 altis automatic is a gas guzzler?

[Mschumacher]

Try other brands also sir. Currently, I like fiesta the most. If it is between the 2 choose the altis.

[harold13]

gof ro altis if may budget ka sir.

[ghosthunter]

The older Altis engine is the same one prone to develop engine sludge which can kill an engine.

You can read the following thread:

http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68215

The newer Corolla Altis engine being sold now was one of Toyota's answers to the engine sludge issue.

[advan]

thanks so much for the replies, helps me think about it more.

added questions:

ghosthunter, this worries me A LOT.... it looks like maintaining this "sensitive" engine might be very costly? the thread you mentioned made me very nervous) Are you also not recommending the 2010 Altis then? (and by saying so won't necessarily mean you vote for the Vios) . Also, is the Vios's 1NZ-FE 1.5L also prone to sludging?

dr. d, "pahabol: is it true that the 1.6 altis automatic is a gas guzzler?" the 2010 or 2011 or both? i'm not sure about this the freebies-- i checked out a dealer recently and all they wanted to offer was 40k discount (no lto/insurance either) for the 2011 altis and 15k off for the vios, so i'm thinking what they're offering now is pretty good? (but why do i have this sneaking suspicion it's not as great as it sounds lol) btw those prices are without borloloys already :T is a vios 1.3 E a/t much noticeably less of a performer than a vios 1.5 G a/t?

altis vs vios:
1.the vios seems youngish? (superficial but i was thinking of keeping this car for at least 10 years...i'm in my mid 30s already...). i think the altis looks a little more... mature? um, psychological lang, i can get over this via correct car color :D
2. the engine "noise" in the vios could be heard louder than in the altis...
3. the interiors of the vios looks too plastic-y.. what they have on promo is the E and G models
4. Vios- the "stick" was awkward/stiff (not as smooth as in the Altis) I don't know if that'll be annoying in the future...
5. i really do like the size of the vios

i don't know. im confused. i've read so many threads here about altis vs vios and most recommend the altis, (but 2011 model!). Thinking about it now, why does the vios make sense since the vios version i'm buying is almost the same as the 2010 altis.... so confused. if only the interior was nicer....

blue gambit, i'm not an expert when it comes to cars, i guess i need to stick to the more commonly purchased ones. the prices of the two are near each other so either would be ok... not unless i'm to consider the vios 1.3a/t which has a tag of 675k?

roberto_minosa, thanks for the explanation. I'd like to think she wasn't duping me... but with what ghosthunter mentioned (sludge issue-- and the linked thread kind of scared me because, as mentioned earlier, I'm not great with cars, especially withe engine monitoring and might screw this up) though you recommend the Altis, do you recommend this year model (2010) in particular? Also, I asked her if all other mechanical parts, aside from the engine, like the suspension etc, in the new Vios and 2010/2011 Altis are the same, she said yes... only the engine and interiors changed... is this correct? She coldn't provide a brochure for the 2010 Altis, i've no basis to compare for now.

[roberto_minosa]

roberto_minosa, thanks for the explanation. I'd like to think she wasn't duping me... but with what ghosthunter mentioned (sludge issue-- and the linked thread kind of scared me because, as mentioned earlier, I'm not great with cars, especially withe engine monitoring and might screw this up) though you recommend the Altis, do you recommend this year model (2010) in particular? Also, I asked her if all other mechanical parts, aside from the engine, like the suspension etc, in the new Vios and 2010/2011 Altis are the same, she said yes... only the engine and interiors changed... is this correct? She coldn't provide a brochure for the 2010 Altis, i've no basis to compare for now.

Since you aren't too meticulous on maintenance, it's better to be on the safe side with the ZR-series engines. I heard that the 3ZZ is very very very sensitive when it comes to oil change interval. Even sports car manufacturer Lotus had problems with their ZZ-engined Elise and Exige sports cars that they had to acquire a different oil pump just to correct this flaw.

If the price difference between the pre-2010 and 2010/2011 models is small enough, then go ZR. 50k "discount" is pretty much standard for most Toyotas anyway. No big deal. Might want to check out a different dealer, and ask for a discount on the new model.

[advan]

Ghosthunter, i really can't thank you enough for bringing up the sludge issue.

roberto_minosa, unfortunately, the price difference is quite big-- well, not THAT big, but big enough to exceed my target budget. The 2010 Altis is tagged at 804k, the 2011 Altis is at 930k, 125k difference. I was hoping to spend just around 800k... I guess the 2010 isn't meant to be... I really can't handle a high maintenance car.

In your opinion, between the new Vios 1.5 G A/T and a Honda City 1.3 S A/T, which would be a better choice?

I've heard this quite a lot, 1.3 on an M/T is ok, but 1.3 on an A/T isn't that recommended? That it should be 1.5 at least-- is this correct? It'll be used 85% for city driving and some long driving-- but I don't want to have problems when going "inclined" locations with full passengers.

Also, since I'm already asking someone who knows cars, can I add one more question-- the problem I have now with my car is that it's a pain on my left knee during continuous driving exceeding 30 mins. I don't know if my car's old that's why the clutch is that "problematic" but in a new M/T car, will the clutch give the same problem, meaning it's all the same for M/T cars (regardless if new or old)? Because if it's a no, maybe I can consider a new M/T 2011 Altis instead.

Sorry for the many questions!

[roberto_minosa]

I have no idea about engines, but the SA said the engine in the 2010 Altis is the same as what's in the Vios-- which isn't the same as what's in the Altis 2011 (plus the 2010 has a different tail light and the "skirt" at the bottom which is wider, I've yet to see it... i'm just familiar with the 2011 model, accdg to the SA that's the only 3 difference..)

It's either the SA is an idiot, or manloloko. The Vios has a 1NZ-FE 1.5L, and the Altis has a 3ZZ-FE 1.6L. We had a 1ZZ-FE Altis a few years back, and it's a fuel sipper. Very good fuel economy by my standards. It's almost as frugal as a Vios, but you get a bigger cabin.

My questions are:
1. is the difference in the 2011 and 2010 far because of the engine difference? They didn't have the 2010 to test drive

The 2011 model has the 3ZR-FE. Dual VVT-i as standard and available 6-speed manual. Dunno if they changed the 4-speed auto. They're phasing out the remaining 3ZZ-equipped Altis units so prices are rock bottom. And a "new" model is always supposed to have a higher price, as Philippine marketing rules dictate. lol

Think of the Vios as a semi-double bed while the Altis is a queen-size. I vote Altis.

[badbadtz.carlo]

get the new Altis... best non-luxury brand sedan ride experienced! forget the Vios.

[jut703]

The 2011 model has the 3ZR-FE. Dual VVT-i as standard and available 6-speed manual. Dunno if they changed the 4-speed auto. They're phasing out the remaining 3ZZ-equipped Altis units so prices are rock bottom. And a "new" model is always supposed to have a higher price, as Philippine marketing rules dictate. lol

Think of the Vios as a semi-double bed while the Altis is a queen-size. I vote Altis.

Sir 3ZR-FE po yung 2.0 model. Been out since 2009. Our non-facelift 2.0V has it. The 1.6 Dual-VVTi engine you're saying is the 1ZR-FE if I'm not mistaken. The 1.6G model keeps the 4-AT but is available with a 6-MT while the 1.6V has a CVT. The facelift 2.0V keeps the 3ZR-FE of before but now has CVT as well instead of the old and goddamn slow to react but creamy smooth 4-AT.

[advan]

badbadtz.carlo, yes, i've already test driven both. Just need to know the real deal because a few minutes in them and the SA won't really say known potential problems (if any) and for me they all feel more or less the same. I'm not much of a car enthusiast to notice what needs to be noticed. The 50k difference is between the new Vios and the 2010 Altis (not the new Altis) which some on this thread have said has a issue with sludging. If this is so, the 50k for me isn't worth it if it's difficult to maintain in the long run. Need everyone's advice to make an informed decision

jut703 and roberto_minosa, i asked the SA this afternoon and she confirmed the 2010 has a ZZ... But being the same SA who said the Vios and 2010 Altis have the same engine, maybe I should double check with another SA. Will post the feedback here. But say it's a 3ZR-- this has a track record of being a really good engine, no sludging issues or any other probematic tendencies?

[SiRbossR]

the Altis is nice. and i'd take it IF it is the 2.0L model. it's like a small camry but too far away of the camry's amenities and ride comfort plus performance.

There are alot of dealers offering better deals and better cars. May we know what dealer are you dealing with? why not get a Ford Focus madam? it's really a bang for the buck. But if you really want a toyota, it's your choice.

Good luck.

[roberto_minosa]

Sir 3ZR-FE po yung 2.0 model. Been out since 2009. Our non-facelift 2.0V has it. The 1.6 Dual-VVTi engine you're saying is the 1ZR-FE if I'm not mistaken. The 1.6G model keeps the 4-AT but is available with a 6-MT while the 1.6V has a CVT. The facelift 2.0V keeps the 3ZR-FE of before but now has CVT as well instead of the old and goddamn slow to react but creamy smooth 4-AT.

Thanks for the clarification! Is the CVT any better than the 4-speed A/T?

[desert fox]

Anuman brand, basta kung ano ang gusto ng puso mo, yun ang sundin mo TS, sa ngayon sa day to day city driving, mas ok ang AT, less stress....pag-uwi mo ng bahay pwede ka pa magchaha....

[ben_david19]

I really don't like Toyota's, well except for the Camry hehe.

*TS - try mo rin sir tumingin ng Mazda2 or Ford Fiesta.

[jut703]

Thanks for the clarification! Is the CVT any better than the 4-speed A/T?

I would assume so. It can't get any worse than the current one, so there's nowhere to go but up. Ok so the 4-AT isn't really bad, I mean it's really smooth and shift shock is practically absent. But I'm just utterly irked at the lag it has. Of course, I'm one of the few people that drive an Altis even if I'm looking for a perky car, so maybe it's not bad for others. My mother doesn't seem bothered by it.

Though one thing that unarguably is a drawback of the 4-AT is the FC. The CVT would most likely give at least a 10% improvement. And with the CVT, I would expect faster response.