Air Force to buy fighter jets by 2011

[niky]

Hahaha... sorry for the F16 smack-talk... but the issue I see with maintaining the F16 over the long haul is the fully electric operation of all the control surfaces... where the F/A 18 still has mechanical back-ups. Though both fighters have proven tough to kill in battle, I still favor the F/A 18 for deployment in a third-world country like ours.

[daimaoh]

as if we could afford to buy and maintain F-35's or F-16's

we might be better off buying A-4's. heck! the americans might even give it to us for free

[coiter]

mig-29s or Su-27s! these jets can land and take off from unpaved runways! they're resistant to extreme weather and are very cheap! with the aim of russia to be a major player in the arms sales once again, there shouldn't be any much quality or support issues. pero syempre, di papayag ang US. so balik tayo sa mas "realistic" hardware. surplus!

F-5E na lang. quantity over quality hehe. para may sukli pa pang C-130.

[JohnM]

Between the F16 and the F18 my bet is on the Electric Jet
1. It's pretty popular with neighboring countries (Singapore, Indonesia, Taiwan, etc) http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t/f-16-fms.htm
2. I'm not sure if they're selling the Hornet to countries outside the US.
3. Hornet is too tough for our needs. It was designed for carrier landings. Two engines is a big plus though.

But nothing beats a Su-30 in terms of beauty

[jonski]

Ok satin ang Gripen kung for defense lang talaga since low cost and yung rugged design nya pwede mag landing sa kahit anong patag na kalsada.

Ok din sakin Rafale since 2 engine sya plus walang "no strings attached" sa mga french hindi tulad ng USA na limited lang mabibili mo mga weapons and kapag hindi ka nila nagustuhan ay hindi ka makakabili ng spares para sa pang ayos ng eroplano mo. Yung 1 Rafale pwede kalabanin atleast 4 fighters at the same time.

[1D4LV]

Are Harrier jets still operational? Mas mukhang bagay ata sa atin ito ah... Imagine, pwede mag land sa forest...

[1D4LV]

Actually, the F-16 can and did although it wasn't the guns vs guns type of dogfight.
-------------

I think the biggest challenge of the PAF is maintaining the aircraft. The PAF had some 40+ F5s in its inventory. But, only a fraction were flyable at any given time. So, the track record of the PAF isn't really good. That's the trend they need to reverse.

That's why if I was to be the one to decide, I'd get the F-16 (the lowest cost) with strong logistics support, modern weaponry, and ample training time for the pilots. Well-trained pilots more than make up for any deficiency of the aircraft.

Add: Geeez. I can't believe the lack of faith of some people here with their own pilots. There were once a Philippine aerobatic team called the Blue Diamonds who were a match for other aerobatic teams around the world. If they can do it, why not now?.....

So defeatist. Tsk tsk. And people ask why Pinoys are looked down upon.

I agree with you bro. Filipino pilots are one of the best. Ang naging problema lang is we do not have enough hardware. And because they are paid low, they do not finish their tour. They transfer to commercial airlines where they are paid 8 x their salary.

And yes, i remember the PAF-Blue Diamonds. I used to watch them at Villamor when i was young.

To think about it....
Why not just get the cheapest fighter to maintain, and get some Apaches, which i think would be more beneficial to us.

And yes, i am an Air Force reservist... Rank of Captain. Assigned at the Logistics Wing.

[JohnM]

I think Apaches are overkill. After all they were designed to kill tanks. We're ok with the Little Birds for now. The Cobra is another option. Lots of parts commonality with the Huey

I've never seen the Blue Diamonds perform All I get to see are scale models of their planes. Hope to see them fly again

[niky]

Harriers are too finicky, I think... hard to operate. Not saying that our pilots can't handle them, but they require a lot of training to operate, and we don't have the money for that training (simulator facilities, crashed planes, extra flying time... lots of extra flying time).

Su-30... purty... puwede na... Too bad the F-20 Tigershark never made it into active service... that was a pretty one... development of the F-5 with lots more power than the old F5 and comparable performance to the F16... developed as a "first-response" fighter. I remember their boast when they were pushing the airplane... that in the time it takes to prep an F16 and get it rolling down the runway, the F20 can be at 20,000 feet. With the maneuverability of the F5 and some parts commonality, it would have been a nice plane to get at the time, only it died in the market due to the technically superior F-16 finally being approved for sale to foreign markets... and due to the fact that it was still basically an F-5, which is old cow...

Burt Rutan Mudfighters? Hehehe... his proposal, if I remember right, was for a 2 million dollar close-support aircraft. Subsonic, jet-powered, ultra-light, rugged... too bad that never came to fruitition...

[Monseratto]

I'd rather purchase transport helos like the UH-60 or the EADS NH-70
and dedicated CAS planes like the Broncos or the A-10s than fighters. Who will you use the fighters against? Jet fighters are gas guzzlers and have little use for internal conflicts. Sadly there are no new dedicated CAS planes in the Western World. Only the SU-25 Frogfoot fits the bill.

[yebo]

there is a modern version of the F5 called the T50. http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/t-50/ it is made in south korea. although it is made to be a trainer aircraft it is dual role in that it can carry both air-to-air and surface attack weapons. eto na lang, mura malamang at hindi made in usa. why buy a plane for $60M when you will just use them for showing the flag missions lang naman. buy a cheap plane then use the change to buy respectable SAM batteries that you can position along the coast. eto mas kailangan natin, least expensive pa to maintain.

and also buy a lot of exocets for anti-ship defense.

[userfriendly]

Before buying fighters, the airforce should first invest in close air support (CAS) and airlift capability.

We need better airlift capability now. Just recently, we were devastated by typhoon Frank, if we have more C130s, then maybe relief goods and medevac can be delivered faster. IIRC, we have less than 5 C130s flying. Helicopters can also help even rescue stranded people.

We need CAS to help the army against insurgency. This is a current problem. Choppers like Cobra gunships will fill CAS duties nicely. If you really want to pound the hell out of your enemy, there is no substitue for an AC130 Specter gunship.

Why spend money on jets that may never be used. Spend our limited resources on something that we need now. Fighter jets are nice but given our current condition, its not what we need.

[city_hunter]

Are Harrier jets still operational? Mas mukhang bagay ata sa atin ito ah... Imagine, pwede mag land sa forest...

Ireretire na po sila kapag mass- produced na po yung JSF (F-35).

Imho, maganda po siya kung gagamitin sa Mindanao pero kung air defense po talo tayo kasi sub-sonic lang po siya.

Mas maganda po siguro kung aayusin na lang yung mga F-5 natin kasi reliable pa rin naman ang mga iyon kahit outdated na (it can reach super-sonic speeds) . Pero mas astig naman kung may bago tayo (sana F/A-18 E/F "Super Hornet") kung bibili ng F/A-18. Kung Russian naman, MiG-29 na lang (comparable sa F-15 yung performance niya).

[Jun aka Pekto]

The Philippine Order Of Battle tells it all:

http://www.scramble.nl/ph.htm

It seems like the Philippines has an adequate number of aircraft that can be used for CAS/COIN missions. Granted, they may need upgrading. But, there seems to be a small but sufficient number of those aircraft.

Cargo aircraft are aplenty. Remember that there are large numbers of civilian cargo aircraft. Any of them can be contracted to do work for the AFP (much like the US) if needed.

The one glaring omission is a lack of front line jets. One can only speculate on why the Philippines let its air force slide to what it is now and then suddenly decide to renew its need for modern jets. I doubt it's just for show. As to the exact reasons for the change of heart, only the top officials know.

I am in a speculating mood, so here goes. I've been speculating for a while now that the main reason why the PAF had been allowed to languish is because the Philippine government thought they can count on the US defense umbrella for help. But, the US clarified its role which is to help only if the survival of the Philippines is at stake. Anything less and the Philippines is on its own. With oil discovered in Palawan, that makes certain the likelihood of more oil in the South China Sea. Everyone already knows about the Spratley Islands. If oil is found there, that will only raise the stakes higher. If it does get higher, the Philippines needs to be ready to back up its claim. With China, Vietnam, and Malaysia also vying for their piece of the pie, it can get messy. One look at their Orders of Battle and it's easy to see the Philippines doesn't stand a chance if a shooting war starts over those islands. With modern jets, at least the Philippines can provide a risk the other countries will have to consider rather than just pushing the Philippine presence aside or wiping them out with a single laser-guided bomb.

Hahaha... sorry for the F16 smack-talk... but the issue I see with maintaining the F16 over the long haul is the fully electric operation of all the control surfaces... where the F/A 18 still has mechanical back-ups. Though both fighters have proven tough to kill in battle, I still favor the F/A 18 for deployment in a third-world country like ours.

Actually, I too favor the F-18 mainly because I think two engines are better than one. But, I believe the F-16 has redundancy built-in to its fly by wire system. If the primary is damaged, there is a backup although I'm not sure how that is implemented.

Some notable customers of the F-18 are: Canada, Australia, Spain, Finland, Malaysia, Switzerland, and Kuwait.

I'm surprised to see Malaysia has F-18s. The US normally sells its planes to what it considers friendly countries. With the frequent anti-US rhetoric by the Malaysian Prime Minister, sometimes I have to wonder if he's just making noise and something else is going on behind the scenes. But then again, I think the Malaysians and the US have done joint military exercises in the past.

[badkuk]

kung ground support lang ang pag uusapan...dunno if it's still in active duty, butthe A10 thunderbolt would do just fine...although it does look jurassic nowadays

<a href="http://s59.photobucket.com/albums/g318/badkuk/?action=view&current=a10thunderbolt.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g318/badkuk/a10thunderbolt.jpg" border="0" alt="A10 Thunderbolt"></a>

[Jun aka Pekto]

My vote:

[jonski]

My vote:

Ok sya, poblem is...bawal sa constitution ng Japan ang mag export ng military hardware nila. Sayang

[v6dreamer]

ARE THEY REALLY INTERESTED ?

First the F-15 EAGLE then the MIG 25 nickname FOXBAT (cause its cheaper), then F/A18 HORNET AND NOW THE F-35!

Actually Pilipino pilots complete F/A-18 HORNET flights have concluded a four-days seven flight evaluation at the NAVAL AIR WARFARE CENTER-CHINA LAKE, Calif. 12 years ago na ito, pero walang nangyari.

The five Philippine pilots (Brig. Gen. De Los Santos, Col. Cruz, Capt. Bartolome, Col. Katindoy and Maj. Nemenzo) flew a two-seat U.S. Marine Corps F/A-18D aircraft from Hornet squadron VMFA-225 Nov. 17-20 at China Lake. Prior to that, they underwent F/A-18 flight simulator training at McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis.

The Philippine pilots were able to utilize the F/A-18's ability to fly at high angles-of-attack and maneuver the aircraft tightly through high g turns.

The last mission of the evaluation was the longest at 1.7 hours. The Philippine pilot wore night vision goggles throughout the flight as the Hornet conducted a simulated sea surveillance and maritime strike mission over a Pacific Ocean range off the coast of Los Angeles.

What next......The F-22 RAPTOR stealth fighter?

[Jun aka Pekto]

ARE THEY REALLY INTERESTED ?

First the F-15 EAGLE then the MIG 25 nickname FOXBAT (cause its cheaper), then F/A18 HORNET AND NOW THE F-35!

Actually Pilipino pilots complete F/A-18 HORNET flights have concluded a four-days seven flight evaluation at the NAVAL AIR WARFARE CENTER-CHINA LAKE, Calif. 12 years ago na ito, pero walang nangyari.

The five Philippine pilots (Brig. Gen. De Los Santos, Col. Cruz, Capt. Bartolome, Col. Katindoy and Maj. Nemenzo) flew a two-seat U.S. Marine Corps F/A-18D aircraft from Hornet squadron VMFA-225 Nov. 17-20 at China Lake. Prior to that, they underwent F/A-18 flight simulator training at McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis.

The Philippine pilots were able to utilize the F/A-18's ability to fly at high angles-of-attack and maneuver the aircraft tightly through high g turns.

The last mission of the evaluation was the longest at 1.7 hours. The Philippine pilot wore night vision goggles throughout the flight as the Hornet conducted a simulated sea surveillance and maritime strike mission over a Pacific Ocean range off the coast of Los Angeles.

What next......The F-22 RAPTOR stealth fighter?

Who knows what they really want. But, giving them the benefit of the doubt, the newer taxes weren't in place 12 years ago, right? So, maybe now they're in a better position and really mean it.

At least, those test flights proved the Philippines have capable pilots who can fly the latest and greatest. It's really distressing to hear all the self-loathing.
-----------------------------------
But, the PAF has been in neglect for way too long. They need modern jets. Their uses may be debatable. But, the PAF needs them regardless.

I do have to ask if jets are useless, then why are most Asian countries arming and modernizing to the teeth when there hasn't been a conflict among them since what, when China made that incursion into Vietnam (after the NVA won back in the 70's)? Why do they see it fit to maintain an air force when they've been at peace for this long? I don't know the answer. But, they have maintained their militaries even in the midst of the Asian economic crisis while the Philippines' AFP went into disrepair. Most of them recovered while the Philippines is what, still recovering? Is there a corelation between their military and their recovery? Again, I don't know. But, I felt I had to point that out.

Add: By the same token, I have to ask why the heck does Singapore need tankers for air to air refueling? It's a nice capability. But, that island is so tiny they can fly around it within minutes. What's their gameplan?

[Jun aka Pekto]

Ok sya, poblem is...bawal sa constitution ng Japan ang mag export ng military hardware nila. Sayang

Export? Nah. I didn't mean export the Mitsubishi F2A. What I meant was the F-16 in general. To me, that's the most sensible choice should the PAF be modernized.

I just showed the Mitsu plane because it has such a nice paintjob.