China Corona Virus Outbreak

[uls]

But what is the death rates and hospitalizations in Israel? We all know for a fact that being vaccinated does not prevent one from being infected. It is to prevent us from dying.

worldometer:

[dr. d]

sometimes,
the death is more a reflection of the nursing care and not so much of the disease itself.

[Deestone]

For those who did not get vaccinated and the virus eventually evolves to just a common flu... so did they make the right decision of not getting vaccinated?

[kagalingan]

googling,
israel had 2.04 M covid cases and 8362 deaths.
philippines had 3.32 M cases and 53,153 deaths.

compare total population.

Hindi maganda pangitain sa isang quadruple vaxxed country almost 100% of the popu

Habang tumatagal pumapangit na depensa ng bakuna

[dr. d]

For those who did not get vaccinated and the virus eventually evolves to just a common flu... so did they make the right decision of not getting vaccinated?

herd immunity is a community cooperation thing, where everyone, vaxxed or not, gets to enjoy the fruits thereof.
if we are not vaxxed, let us just keep quiet and enjoy our health.
my opinion.

[uls]

sometimes,
the death is more a reflection of the nursing care and not so much of the disease itself.

and we don't know how covid deaths are counted

i mean between countries

there are those who "died with covid" and "died of covid"

kung wala distinction you'd be overcounting

kung masyado naman strict you may be undercounting

-

if someone goes to the ER for heart attack, swabbed positive pala

kung namatay, will that be counted as a covid death?

-

the data isn't reliable

[dr. d]

compare total population.

Hindi maganda pangitain sa isang quadruple vaxxed country almost 100% of the popu

Habang tumatagal pumapangit na depensa ng bakuna

compare the death rates over the infection rates.
take into account the vaccination rates.
then, there's the nursing care...

[dr. d]

and we don't know how covid deaths are counted

i mean between countries

there are those who "died with covid" and "died of covid"

kung wala distinction you'd be overcounting

kung masyado naman strict you may be undercounting

-

if someone goes to the ER for heart attack, swabbed positive pala

kung namatay, will that be counted as a covid death?

-

the data isn't reliable

the data will probably become available in the future.
it takes time for the experts to separate the grain from the chaff.

a few months ago,
anti-vaxxers were avidly quoting a newly-published scientific article, because its conclusions fitted their purposes superbly.
several weeks after publishing, the editors recanted the article. they found out, that the writers of the article were using hearsay data.

[uls]

i still think the best indicator to show deadly covid is to the human race is to look at excess deaths

get excess deaths data from pre-covid (like 2017, 2018, 2019)

then compare that to excess deaths in 2020 and 2021

[dr. d]

i still think the best indicator to show deadly covid is to the human race is to look at excess deaths

get excess deaths data from pre-covid (like 2017, 2018, 2019)

then compare that to excess deaths in 2020 and 2021

what are the caveats?

[Monseratto]

According to the data, ZOE estimates that 46% of people experiencing new “cold-like“ symptoms are likely to have symptomatic COVID-19, meaning any new ‘cold-like’ symptoms are now again more likely to be a cold than COVID. (Graph 5).

[uls]

excess deaths / all cause mortality

number of deaths in a country every year (regardless of cause -- disease, accidents, suicide etc)

looking at a 10 year history you'll see the numbers don't stray too far year-to-year

if there's something killing a lot more people than usual you will see a significant deviation

for example:

England and Wales (male 15-44)


by the way this ^^^ doesn't say it's coz of covid

i'm just using it to explain excess deaths / all cause mortality

[boybi]

compare total population.

Hindi maganda pangitain sa isang quadruple vaxxed country almost 100% of the popu

Habang tumatagal pumapangit na depensa ng bakuna

It has been said from the very beginning, vaccinated persons can still catch covid. But it will be just like catching the flu.

When the unvaxxed gets covid, the probability of him needing hospital admission is very high. So they occupy hospital beds that should be for those who needs to be admitted from other illnesses. Napupuno hospitals because of the unvaxxed. Hindi makagamit ng hospital mga taong nangangailang ma-hospital na hindi nacovid.

[Lew_Alcindor]

excess deaths / all cause mortality

number of deaths in a country every year (regardless of cause -- disease, accidents, suicide etc)

looking at a 10 year history you'll see the numbers don't stray too far year-to-year

if there's something killing a lot more people than usual you will see a significant deviation

for example:

England and Wales (male 15-44)


by the way this ^^^ doesn't say it's coz of covid

i'm just using it to explain excess deaths / all cause mortality

Many countries instituted wearing of mask and social distancing plus lockdowns in the pandemic years. How do you account for that?

[uls]

RE: quadruple vaxxed Israel

i understand vaccines keep people out of the hospital

di ko lang maalis sa isip what 4 doses in 12 months can do to one's immune system

Israel started its vaccination campaign in Dec 2020

Why have the COVID-19 vaccinations in Israel made the headlines?

The first Pfizer vaccine doses arrived in Israel on December 9, 2020, and vaccinations began on December 19, 2020.

Israel is basically Pfizer's lab

Pfizer is still tracking, gathering data

we'll find out this year what happens... when Israel's population has to deal with a new variant whose spike is much more different than omicron's (farther away from wuhan variant spike than omicron)

[uls]

Many countries instituted wearing of mask and social distancing plus lockdowns in the pandemic years. How do you account for that?

well it could still be covid even if there's mask wearing and distancing and mobility restriction

it's 2021 data

UK saw a lot of covid deaths in 2021



but...

the 15-44 cohort is less likely to die of covid compared to oider people

so why do we see excess deaths in that cohort?

could be male? (being male is already higher risk for severe covid)

or maybe restrictions/lockdowns caused mental health problems

male 15-44 are more likely to abuse alcohol and painkillers

could be suicides, overdoses

[dr. d]

well it could still be covid even if there's mask wearing and distancing and mobility restriction

it's 2021 data

UK saw a lot of covid deaths in 2021



but...

the 15-44 cohort is less likely to die of covid compared to oider people

so why do we see excess deaths in that cohort?

could be male? (being male is already higher risk for severe covid)

or maybe restrictions/lockdowns caused mental health problems

male 15-44 are more likely to abuse alcohol and painkillers

could be suicides, overdoses

"the caveats."

[uls]

"the caveats."

yep

let's say sa Pinas...

in 2010 to 2019 (if data is available) we'd see a fairly stable number of deaths from all causes year after year

but in 2020/21 there would be an unusually high number (specially in 2021 = alpha & delta waves)

-

in 2020 i think baka mas konte pa deaths from all causes

ito inisip ko -- every year meron deaths from road accidents

since we had prolonged lockdown in 2020 sigurado mas konte ang road accidents

so kung may mga namatay sa covid, total number of deaths wouldn't have moved much coz the low number of road accidents would offset covid deaths

pero wala ako doubt may deviation from normal ang total deaths in 2021 (alpha and delta waves caused a lot of deaths talaga)

[dr. d]

total deaths during covid - total deaths before covid = covid deaths. or is it?

the caveat here, is that situations leading to death or away from death, may have been set up by the covid situation, but not necessarily caused by the virus' direct biologic activity.
the only way to find out, is to undergo detailed investigation into these deaths.

[Deestone]

So far we don't hear any news on new variants wrecking havoc in other countries after omicron so this is good news for us.